Direction of flash cards

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
tacerto1018
White Belt
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 10:00 pm
Languages: MA - French
Currently studying - Icelandic
Studied in the past to different levels - Portuguese, Norwegian, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Japanese, Dutch, German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15400
x 76

Direction of flash cards

Postby tacerto1018 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:34 pm

Hey everyone,

Quick question: I've been adding to my anki deck for quite some time now and I have a practical question.

I am looking to do the DALF C2 exam in the future and just expand my overall lexicon breadth of knowledge, so I've been putting every single word or expression I come across into my anki deck. I've found a way to import everything I highlight from my kindle into anki, as well, so that by itself has given my thousands of words. I work in French, I teach it, I speak to my daughter in French, half of my Master's program was in French, and I have Francophone friends. But I want to expand the words and expressions I can actively recall.

However, I have always had a doubt about which way to make my cards; that is to say, does anyone have advice on which way the cards should go? L1 --> L2 or L2 --> L1.

At the moment, with the exception of some mistakes, all my cards are L2 --> L1. Though I noticed that I have run into some words when speaking where I say, "ah man I know I studied this word but I can't recall it". Does anyone have any advice or research promoting one way or another? I think I can more easily recall words actively when it's L1 --> L2, but I haven't done it enough to be sure.

Thanks!
1 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), English (C1), French (C2), Spanish (intermediate), German (somewhere on the path), Italian (passive advanced, active basic)
x 12580

Re: Direction of flash cards

Postby Cavesa » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:52 pm

Well, I passed my DALF C2 without having done much of SRS, my main vocab building activity was extensive listening and reading, so I guess many paths will do. But if you SRS (and I am doing it for my other languages), I think there is absolutely no point in the comprehension cards, at least in a language like French. I'd probably believe in their importance for a Japanese learner, but not for us.

If you can actively translate a word from L1 to L2, it is obvious that you can also understanding it from L2 to L1. But if you also waste time on a card from L2 to L1, you can't be sure. Also, if you read or listen to stuff in French a lot, you are doing a sort of natural comprehension "SRS" too, while the active vocabulary takes longer to be affected and may profit from the SRS support much more.
4 x

tacerto1018
White Belt
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 10:00 pm
Languages: MA - French
Currently studying - Icelandic
Studied in the past to different levels - Portuguese, Norwegian, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Japanese, Dutch, German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15400
x 76

Re: Direction of flash cards

Postby tacerto1018 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:26 pm

Thanks for your response. While I have been reading, listening etc every day for years now, it's just about targeting expressions that I see a lot of that may be of use in a certain context, or colloquialisms. So it's just about pure vocab en masse at the current moment.

How did you find the test btw? Was it more or less difficult than you thought it would be?
0 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), English (C1), French (C2), Spanish (intermediate), German (somewhere on the path), Italian (passive advanced, active basic)
x 12580

Re: Direction of flash cards

Postby Cavesa » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:43 pm

tacerto1018 wrote:Thanks for your response. While I have been reading, listening etc every day for years now, it's just about targeting expressions that I see a lot of that may be of use in a certain context, or colloquialisms. So it's just about pure vocab en masse at the current moment.

How did you find the test btw? Was it more or less difficult than you thought it would be?


I see your point, vocab en masse is definitely a good target! If I had the time and will, I'd find it interesting to make a huge vocab deck based on a dictionary. You know, all the stuff I know passively, would like to know actively, but still don't use spontaneously. But that is just an idea I haven't gotten to yet.

I've written a lot about the exam, but to your question: I found the listening extremely easy. Given my amount of practice (mostly tons of tv series), it was no problem at all. Speaking was ok, which was a really good surprise (my previous DELE B2 experience was horrible, especially because the testing center broke the rules. DALF C2 went the expected way and it was a rather pleasant experience). It was not perfect, but very good, I got a high score for this part, I think 42/50, if I remember correctly. Reading was easy too, no problem (again, I had read tons of books). Writing was hard, but that was only expected. It is hard to learn the French writing style, and there are almost no resources, only a tutor was only partially helpful (well, I didn't have much of a choice, I had been refused by many, and this one was at least half competent, in spite of his lies about the previous experience. I had paid for like a dozen sessions, so it was a tiny minorty of my whole preparation). Writing is the most difficult part to learn, but you should have no problem with it, as you did a part of your Master in French. I got only 16/50, if I remember correctly. I was told such uneven scores were very unusual, but even the writing part was a passing grade, and the much better speaking part balanced it out.
3 x

User avatar
leosmith
Blue Belt
Posts: 702
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:06 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: N:English
~C1: Spanish
~B2: French, Japanese, Korean, Mandarin, Russian, Thai, Tagalog, Swahili
Language Log: https://oplingo.com/forum/t/2093
x 1577
Contact:

Re: Direction of flash cards

Postby leosmith » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:16 am

tacerto1018 wrote:At the moment, with the exception of some mistakes, all my cards are L2 --> L1.

L1 to L2 is the correct way to go if your goal is to improve your recall. L2 to L1 requires almost no effort, but it doesn't hurt to do both.

(edited second sentence)
Last edited by leosmith on Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
4 x
https://oplingo.com/ - try our free multi-language reading tool

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2019
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Boston
Languages: Russian, 3/3 (DLPT, 2021) 2+ (OPI, 2021)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT, 2019)
BCS, 3L/2+R/2S (DLPT in, oh God, 1999!)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 4894
Contact:

Re: Direction of flash cards

Postby IronMike » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:56 pm

leosmith wrote:
tacerto1018 wrote:At the moment, with the exception of some mistakes, all my cards are L2 --> L1.

L1 to L2 requires almost no effort, but it doesn't hurt to do both.

Really? You're so lucky. I find L1 to L2 harder than L2 to L1.
2 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.

User avatar
einzelne
Orange Belt
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:33 pm
Languages: Russan (N), English (Working knowledge), French (Reading), German (Reading)
x 357

Re: Direction of flash cards

Postby einzelne » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:59 pm

IronMike wrote:Really? You're so lucky. I find L1 to L2 harder than L2 to L1.


I think it was a typo and the author meant: "L2 to L1 requires almost no effort, but it doesn't hurt to do both."
2 x

User avatar
leosmith
Blue Belt
Posts: 702
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:06 pm
Location: Seattle
Languages: N:English
~C1: Spanish
~B2: French, Japanese, Korean, Mandarin, Russian, Thai, Tagalog, Swahili
Language Log: https://oplingo.com/forum/t/2093
x 1577
Contact:

Re: Direction of flash cards

Postby leosmith » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:49 am

IronMike wrote:Really? You're so lucky. I find L1 to L2 harder than L2 to L1.

More sloppy than lucky. Fixed, thank you.
2 x
https://oplingo.com/ - try our free multi-language reading tool

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2019
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Boston
Languages: Russian, 3/3 (DLPT, 2021) 2+ (OPI, 2021)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT, 2019)
BCS, 3L/2+R/2S (DLPT in, oh God, 1999!)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 4894
Contact:

Re: Direction of flash cards

Postby IronMike » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:20 am

leosmith wrote:
IronMike wrote:Really? You're so lucky. I find L1 to L2 harder than L2 to L1.

More sloppy than lucky. Fixed, thank you.

Honest to God thought you were being serious! So glad to hear you're normal like the rest of us. ;)
1 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.

lusan
Green Belt
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:25 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC, USA
Languages: Spanish(Native)
English (Auto-pilot)
Polish(Intermediate/warehouse)
French(Intermediate)
Italian(Beginner)
x 522

Re: Direction of flash cards

Postby lusan » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:40 am

French
Listening - L2->L1 - French is not so much of a phonetic language. Useful for Idioms+ chunks.
Reading - L2-> L1 - For infrequent words only. After reading a bunch of books.
Active - L1 > L2 - But no more than 3-4000 words. Whatever is needed to communicate. Currently none. I don't think I need it anymore.

Italian
Basic Vocabulary - Both directions... For the 3000 words + 500 verbs.
Reading: L2>L1 - Non frequent words and non-cognates.
2 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests