List of must learn languages to access other languages

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tarvos
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Re: List of must learn languages to access other languages

Postby tarvos » Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:08 pm

nooj wrote:
Samer wrote:For all of us non-native English speakers, English is a treasure trove. It is mind boggling how many resources there are in English to learn other languages. I'm in touch with with Arab community of Japanese learners online, and those who don't know English are at a big disadvantage in their journey. Dictionaries, textbooks, software tools, graded readers...

I remember one time there was a Czech person living in Ireland who was learning Irish and they said that they wished there was any Irish-Czech material. I felt very sorry for the man, having to learn Irish from English, a foreign language.


It's sadly a prerequisite for most speakers of a lesser spoken language. I'm not sure you'll find Dutch-Irish textbooks either, outside of formal EU documents
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Re: List of must learn languages to access other languages

Postby Adrianslont » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:18 pm

nooj wrote:
Samer wrote:For all of us non-native English speakers, English is a treasure trove. It is mind boggling how many resources there are in English to learn other languages. I'm in touch with with Arab community of Japanese learners online, and those who don't know English are at a big disadvantage in their journey. Dictionaries, textbooks, software tools, graded readers...

I remember one time there was a Czech person living in Ireland who was learning Irish and they said that they wished there was any Irish-Czech material. I felt very sorry for the man, having to learn Irish from English, a foreign language.

You remember one Czech guy learning Irish?

Surely the number of people learning a third language from their second runs into the hundreds of millions.

And people learning difficult stuff that isn’t languages in a second language would be at least hundreds of millions.
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Re: List of must learn languages to access other languages

Postby nooj » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:51 am

fresh_air wrote:I've had an interest in Guarani in the past (still do, but not enough time to seriously pursue it). Guarani resources are nearly all in Spanish and Portuguese, with only one or two English resources that I could find.

This will be of interest then, a recently published (a couple months ago!) grammar of Guarani. In English and available for free. I met some Paraguayan immigrants in my town...what more to say other than, beautiful language.

Adrianslont wrote:You remember one Czech guy learning Irish?

Surely the number of people learning a third language from their second runs into the hundreds of millions.

And people learning difficult stuff that isn’t languages in a second language would be at least hundreds of millions.


The person was very compelling in how they expressed their regret that they couldn't access this language through their native language. I still find it moving. And also it's interesting to see a person learning a minoritised third language (and little learned outside of Ireland itself) through a second language that they themselves did not feel comfortable with.

A Spaniard who is learning Kashubian, but using their limited knowledge of Polish and using Polish language materials, would leave a similar impression on me. Given the absence of material for learning Kashubian through Spanish, to want to learn a language through the language you most feel comfortable with is something I can wholly get behind.
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Re: List of must learn languages to access other languages

Postby Querneus » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:34 pm

alaart wrote:Mandarin if you want to access other Chinese languages.

Including ancient Chinese... And similarly Korean for Middle Korean, and Japanese for Old/Classical Japanese.

I was once told by someone studying Pali that learning Burmese is also a very good idea if you want to get into Pali. Apparently, a lot of texts these days are primarily or best published in the Burmese script, and so is their associated commentary.

Modern Persian is essential if you want to get into classical New Persian (as in, that of the 10th-12th centuries), but I'm under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that for Old and Middle Persian people are better served by English/German due to being better described by Indo-Europeanists.

Among indigenous minority languages spoken by few people around the world, it sometimes happens that the documentation is primarily carried out by linguists of a certain nation, and so the language of the documentation becomes essential. English is best for most of Oceania, but there's some like Mwotlap for which learning French is important (in this case due to the work of a single linguist, Alexandre François).

tarvos wrote:
nooj wrote:I remember one time there was a Czech person living in Ireland who was learning Irish and they said that they wished there was any Irish-Czech material. I felt very sorry for the man, having to learn Irish from English, a foreign language.

It's sadly a prerequisite for most speakers of a lesser spoken language. I'm not sure you'll find Dutch-Irish textbooks either, outside of formal EU documents

An older American guy who started learning Irish a good two decades and a half ago, after having studied a good deal of German and Spanish+Catalan, told me he once knew of a guy from Catalonia with a similar frustration, and the Catalan guy took it upon himself to write a Catalan-Irish dictionary for his own use. He put it online as a website, and the American guy told me he himself used to use it too all the time, as it was actually pretty decent. The Catalonian guy at some point disappeared from the Internet and his website is now down though, apparently having never gotten to publish his dictionary in dead-tree form...

I remember once reading someone in a language forum say that, years before, he had made his own trilingual wordlists for Punjabi, Urdu and French, at a time when he was actively learning the first two (of which he was an unskilled heritage speaker) along with French at university.

I am very amused by this sort of unusual dictionaries... This is getting off-topic, but I've heard the oldest large dictionary of Minnan Chinese was written by a Catholic missionary priest centuries ago, in Spanish, a near-complete copy of which was discovered less than a decade ago.
Last edited by Querneus on Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: List of must learn languages to access other languages

Postby Montmorency » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:17 pm

DaveAgain wrote:I think one of George Orwell's essay collections mentioned him being required to take a language exam as part of a job requirement for the indian civil service.


He learned Burmese and Hindustani, apparently.
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Re: List of must learn languages to access other languages

Postby cjareck » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:52 pm

DaveAgain wrote:It would be interesting to know if civil servants in the Austro-Hungarian empire were obliged to learn multiple languages.

I don't know how it was with civil servants, but officers and soldiers were obliged to know at least some basic phrases of the Regimentsprache (Regimental language. When there were enough recruits of a certain nationality, their language became a Regimentalsprache. As far as I remember, it was about 20%, and I think that I heard about regiments with four languages. But I'm writing that from memory, and surely I am not an expert on Austro-Hungarian forces. Nevertheless, in Vienna, I saw in Kapuziner church an emblem of 2nd Uhlans Regiment. Since the regiment was a Galician one, the motto was in Polish! "Nie dajmy się" (Let us not give up).
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