Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
User avatar
Deinonysus
Brown Belt
Posts: 1222
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:06 pm
Location: MA, USA
Languages:  
• Native: English
• Advanced: French
• Intermediate: German,
   Spanish, Hebrew
• Beginner: Italian,
   Arabic
x 4635

Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby Deinonysus » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:51 pm

So, I have heard that an /n/ assimilates to the velar [ŋ] (as in the "ng" in the English word "sing") before another velar consonant such as /x/ or /k/, which makes a lot of sense. But I have also been noticing that a word-final /n/ will also often become /ŋ/ before another word that starts with a vowel.

One example for my latest Babbel lesson is that "ningún amigo" sounded like "ningúng amigo". I have also heard this in Assimil, so it isn't just Babbel.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a rule to when you would do this? And is it limited to European Spanish, or does this occur in Latin American Spanish as well?
0 x
/daɪ.nə.ˈnaɪ.səs/

RF3
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:30 pm
Languages: English (N)
x 6

Re: Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby RF3 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:00 pm

It’s very common in Central America (not Mexico). It happens whenever the word ends in an “n” before the next word starts with a vowel.
2 x

User avatar
El Forastero
Orange Belt
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:10 am
Location: Colombia
Languages: Spanish (N), French (C1), English (C1), Italian (C1), Portuguese (C1), German (Beginner), Russian (beginner), Wayuunaiki (Beginner)
x 582
Contact:

Re: Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby El Forastero » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:24 pm

What you have mentioned never happens in my accent (Central Andean Colombian), but it's very common in caribbean accents. Indeed, They have also nasal vowels, very strong in Cuba and Puerto Rico, a bit less in Colombian Caribbean region.

So, most Caribbean speakers would pronounce Ningún amigo as /nĩŋgũŋãmiɣo/.
2 x
Please correct my errors in any tongue.
Visit my blog (In spanish)
Visit my youtube channel (In spanish)
: 4 / 10 10 C1 before being 55 years old
Are you looking for an online spanish tutor?

jmar257
Green Belt
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:41 pm
Location: USA
Languages: English (N), español (Intermediate), français (Lower Intermediate), deutsch (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=15645
x 681

Re: Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby jmar257 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:15 am

I only noticed that when I started using FSI Basic Spanish, which is weird because I have used Assimil before. I like it and try to do it because I feel like it flows easier in some cases, but I don't really practice speaking much so my input may not be worth as much on that. I'll readily admit I don't have a specific target accent (if I had to choose, Mexican) beyond a general Latin American-ish Spanish.
1 x
Feel free to give me corrections in any of my target languages!

RF3
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:30 pm
Languages: English (N)
x 6

Re: Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby RF3 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:48 am

jmar257 wrote:I only noticed that when I started using FSI Basic Spanish.


Same here!!! Then I went to El Salvador, where they say it all the time... as well as voseo, which for some reason never gets taught or even brought up in any book or classroom EVER....
2 x

User avatar
Querneus
Blue Belt
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:28 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Languages: Speaks: Spanish (N), English
Studying: Latin, French, Mandarin
x 2287

Re: Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby Querneus » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:59 pm

Velar [ŋ] at the end of words is very common in Andalusia, Central America and the Caribbean dialects.
2 x

Cainntear
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3527
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:04 am
Location: Scotland
Languages: English(N)
Advanced: French,Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Intermediate: Italian, Catalan, Corsican
Basic: Welsh
Dabbling: Polish, Russian etc
x 8794
Contact:

Re: Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby Cainntear » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:55 am

Deinonysus wrote:So, I have heard that an /n/ assimilates to the velar [ŋ] (as in the "ng" in the English word "sing") before another velar consonant such as /x/ or /k/, which makes a lot of sense. But I have also been noticing that a word-final /n/ will also often become /ŋ/ before another word that starts with a vowel.

One example for my latest Babbel lesson is that "ningún amigo" sounded like "ningúng amigo". I have also heard this in Assimil, so it isn't just Babbel.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a rule to when you would do this? And is it limited to European Spanish, or does this occur in Latin American Spanish as well?

In some places the /n/ in this situation is rendered as [m].

As I understand it, Spanish essentially lost any distinction between nasals at the end of the words -- e.g. Bethlehem is Belén. Historically, then, any of [ŋ], [n] and [m] are equally good.
1 x

User avatar
tungemål
Blue Belt
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:56 pm
Location: Norway
Languages: Norwegian (N)
English, German, Spanish, Japanese, Dutch, Polish
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17672
x 2192

Re: Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby tungemål » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:22 am

Here the narrator pronounces ponte as "pong te":
https://youtu.be/vpI4FoON1mg?t=309
I didn't notice this before, but I guess it is normal?
0 x

User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby Saim » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:21 am

It's also pronounced that way in Spanish as spoken in Galicia and Asturias, as is the case of the Galician and Asturleonese languages.
1 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152

User avatar
Querneus
Blue Belt
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:28 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Languages: Speaks: Spanish (N), English
Studying: Latin, French, Mandarin
x 2287

Re: Spanish - Random word-final [ŋ] before vowel?

Postby Querneus » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:54 pm

tungemål wrote:Here the narrator pronounces ponte as "pong te":
https://youtu.be/vpI4FoON1mg?t=309
I didn't notice this before, but I guess it is normal?

Is that really an [ŋ]? It just sounds like a lengthened [n:] to me, due to emphasis: [ˈpon:te].
1 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests