Fastest way to read in a foreign language (French)

[James29]

I am seeking advice for the fastest way to be able to read novels in French. I am about a solid B2 in Spanish. My goal is to get to be able to read popular fiction translated into French. The maximum I could commit to this would be about an hour a day. What would you do?

I understand there are reasons to work on pronunciation, etc. I'd prefer to just focus this discussion on the best/fastest way to get to a level where I can read popular fiction books for adults translated into French. Any and all input would be appreciated.

[iguanamon]

I would do a basic course, get a good basic grammar book and start by reading parallel texts. I think you've already done Michel Thomas foundations. There are plenty of free resources for ready made parallel texts out there- even French-Spanish. You can even make your own quite easily if you are willing to try. Though you may have to compromise on what you might want in the beginning. I'd start out small and work my way up.

Knowing Haitian Creole in addition to my other languages makes it easier for me to read French. I find I can understand many of the posts here in French for the most part. I don't really seek out French because I don't feel the need for it... at this time. You have a definite advantage in having a high B2 in Spanish and native English. You also have experience having learned a language on your own and you know what to expect.

Parallel texts, in the beginning stages of learning how to read in a second language, can save a lot of time looking up words (provided the translations are good) by just glancing over to confirm a guess or find the meaning of a word or phrase. While you are also doing a course, I know you have Assimil El francés sin esfuerzo, you can certainly do both within an hour time frame and you don't have to wait to start reading until you finish Assimil. Since you like translated English books, (I can't believe I am actually recommending this) maybe you should start off with one of your Ayn Rand tomes that you know so well, like you did when you started your Spanish learning. It will be hard at first, but after a few months, I think you'd do well.

The grammar of French seems to be similar to Spanish in many respects but there are also all kinds of land mines along the way if you were solely relying on reading. Like, for instance, liaison hiding word gender at times- is it "la" or is it "le" when you read "l'alliance"? That's one example The "passé simple" which is used mostly in literature is another among many. That's why I recommend a course and a grammar.

Personally, speaking just for myself, I can't imagine learning a living language just for reading. I would want to speak listen and write too. I certainly think that's doable within the hour time frame you have in mind. So, why not go ahead like you are going to speak French but don't worry so much about it (not doing exchange or meetups, etc.)? I think it would help. Bonne chance this time, James.

[James29]

Great suggestions, Iguanamon. I am seeking to avoid the whole discussion about conversations because I have had so many false starts with French and going that route is going to be a total nonstarter for me. I have the desire to read books and that is what I want to be able to do. I am motivated to get to that point. I am sure that eventually I'll want to speak, but for now the only thing that I really have a desire to do is read. In the past I did Michel Thomas foundations (about two years ago) and more recently I did the Paul Noble course (which is great, by the way). I have the Assimil course too, but I am just not motivated to get into audio/speaking courses.

[emk]

I am seeking advice for the fastest way to be able to read novels in French. I am about a solid B2 in Spanish. My goal is to get to be able to read popular fiction translated into French. The maximum I could commit to this would be about an hour a day. What would you do?

I understand there are reasons to work on pronunciation, etc. I'd prefer to just focus this discussion on the best/fastest way to get to a level where I can read popular fiction books for adults translated into French. Any and all input would be appreciated.

Again, I'm going to ask the usual annoying question, which you probably predicted. Is it possible that you might want to listen to French in the future? It's really easy for an English or Spanish speaker to build a wildly incorrect model of how French sounds, and then "burn" those incorrect sounds into their brain via extensive reading. Happily, it's pretty easy and cheap to get this right. This is one of the big differences between French and other Romance languages: French has a much more complicated phonetic system and an extremely antiquated—but highly consistent—orthography.

If you do want to be able to listen to French at some point, then it's probably worth considering at least a little bit of Listening/Reading, Assimil, Subs2srs, or something like that. Any of these should allow you to make rapid progress on reading, and you wouldn't have to spend any extra time on the sounds, but you'd still get a decent introduction for free. Let me know if you're interested in resources for any of these.

As for actually getting up to speed on the reading, you might try the following:

1. French for Reading. We had a log a year or two ago where somebody went from zero to actually reading military history pretty quickly, and they used this book. Worth a look.
2. Readlang. When you're moving between two Romance languages, sometimes you just need a reader with a good popup dictionary and some flash cards. This seems to be the best available version right now. (If you like the idea but you prefer real ebook readers and Anki, PM me and I've got other suggestions.)
3. I know I always recommend Izneo for beginning French readers, but it's cheap, it's not region-locked (unlike most digital French media), and there really is a lot of actual, worthwhile stuff to read there. French BDs aren't just superhero stuff; you can find things generally worth reading for a wide range of tastes.
4. My standard French grammar recommendations are Essential French Grammar (US$2 on Amazon, excellent) and french.about.com, which is actually excellent and thorough if you want to drill down for a certain point.

From a reader's perspective, French is probably grammatically simpler than Spanish (fewer verb tenses, mandatory pronouns). But look up the clitic pronouns y and en and find some good examples—they do a lot of work in written French, and they can really cause you to lose the thread of entire sentences until you get a feel for them.

[tomgosse]

Again, I'm going to ask the usual annoying question, which you probably predicted. Is it possible that you might want to listen to French in the future? It's really easy for an English or Spanish speaker to build a wildly incorrect model of how French sounds, and then "burn" those incorrect sounds into their brain via extensive reading. Happily, it's pretty easy and cheap to get this right. This is one of the big differences between French and other Romance languages: French has a much more complicated phonetic system and an extremely antiquated—but highly consistent—orthography.

This is one of my problems. I was exposed to written French before I heard it spoken, and I have a hard time pronouncing it because so many words are similar to English words. My natural inclination is to pronounce them as English. One of my bigger embarrassments as a teenager was pronouncing faux pas as "fox pass". It's things like that, that can really ruin one's credibility.

[James29]

I understand and agree with the notion that pronunciation and listening is important at the beginning. I have seen that advice before and it is good advice. Frankly, it is one of the big reasons I just have not been able to get started. Every time I "start" I end up quitting.

I have the French for Reading book and it looks good. I had heard about the member who used it, but I was never able to find his log anywhere.

So, maybe the solution is to suck it up and do some listening and pronunciation and then start with the reading book.

[Mohave]

I'd like to second emk's and Iguanamon's input. I wanted to learn French mainly for the wonderful literature and films, and to be able to "get-by" when traveling. Before finding HTLAL, I started using Easy French reader (without the CD) and the French In Action (book and videos only). It wasn't until I found HTLAL several months later, that I found a more holistic approach, but during that time, I developed some bad pronounciation habits. It has taken a lot of effort to get on the right track, and I feel my pronunciation is one of my weaker areas. Also, one of my language exchange partner's husband, from Quebec, reads fluently in English, but never learned English pronounciation. When they go to Florida in the winter, he has a heck of a time being understood when speaking English.

If I were starting French all over, I would do the excellent FSI phonology course first. You can finish this in a couple of hours - it's not long. Then I would do do Assimil (I did French Without Toil and loved it!), and do Pimsleur. After doing this much, I was able to read the "Le Petit Nicolas" series - which is just a treasure. Because you have already learned Spanish to such a high level, I expect you would be able to go through this pretty quickly. French for Reading has an excellent reputation, but tends to be quite pricey in comparison to Spanish For Reading. You can sometimes find it at a decent price at the end of the semester as many universities use it as a textbook.

Edit: I think we cross-posted, and I did not see your response before posting mine!

[amyhere]

Like, for instance, liaison hiding word gender at times- is it "la" or is it "le" when you read "l'alliance"? That's one example The "passé composé" which is used mostly in literature is another among many.

Although it's not too relevant to the discussion, I believe you meant "passé simple" here? Passé composé is the everyday tense while passé simple is used pretty much exclusively in literature.

[iguanamon]

Thanks, amyhere! I have corrected the mistake. I don't speak French.

[emk]

I understand and agree with the notion that pronunciation and listening is important at the beginning. I have seen that advice before and it is good advice. Frankly, it is one of the big reasons I just have not been able to get started. Every time I "start" I end up quitting.

Yeah, I was scared away by French pronunciation two or three times before I found Assimil. (After a week of Assimil, I donated all $250-worth of my other French courses to the library.) Basically, just doing some basic listening and reading in parallel on a regular basis was enough to make it easy, without ever really studying the pronunciation of written French. So here's how I look at it.

Things which would be deeply annoying but which—happily—you probably don't need to do at all:

1. Consciously learning the rules of how to pronounce French.
2. Worrying about the fact that French pronunciation makes no sense at first.
3. Stressing out about French pronunciation.

Things which I would personally recommend:

1. Spending a bit of time reading French while listening to parallel audio.

Basically, I don't think there's any reason to master French pronunciation, or even particularly worry about it. Just make sure your "French diet" includes a bit of parallel text and audio, and leave the rest to your brain. I was so stressed out by French pronunciation for the first few Assimil lessons, and then I said, "Let's just wing it", and by lesson 30 I basically took it entirely for granted that I could read a French word and pronounce it. And you could not possibly imagine a more slipshod approach to Assimil than what I did in the early days, and I didn't have any input at home yet. Basically, using parallel text and audio isn't something that you can fail at; you just read and listen and go about your business. This exercise is totally ungraded, and it will not be on the exam.

Actually, getting comprehensible input and then not worrying about things is pretty good advice for French in general: If you even find yourself tensing up, just stop worrying and go do something fun. Lots of stuff in French makes sense "from the inside", but if I tried to write it out all the exceptions to the exceptions, I'd probably have a panic attack or something.

I have the French for Reading book and it looks good. I had heard about the member who used it, but I was never able to find his log anywhere.

I dug around a bit and found his log on the old site. As you can see, he was able to transition from French for Reading directly into a history book he really wanted to read, which I found pretty impressive.

Passé composé is the everyday tense while passé simple is used pretty much exclusively in literature.

Yup. The passé simple is one more thing not to stress about. You'll definitely need it for reading novels, even trashy action novels[1], but it will take maybe an hour to learn. Basically, when narrating in French, you just replace the passé composé everywhere with the passé simple, and you're done. Boom. You need to know a grant total of maybe 4 verb endings for normal use. Anybody who's ever dealt with Spanish verbs at all will eat the passé simple for breakfast.

[1] Interestingly, a quick survey of trashy French romance novels suggests that they're almost all written in the present tense. But trashy action novels definitely use the passé simple.