Where to Begin? Aimed towards my pre-teen kids

[Cavesa]

That depends. Does your daughter want primarily to learn or to primarily play while learning a bit? That's different. Is she a bookworm or more of a social butterfly? How intelligent is she, average, above average, very intelligent? Does she prefer guidance of a teacher or is she a good independent learner? Kids are defined by much more than just their age, just like any other people.

Assuming she's a clever girl who primarily wants to learn the language (as she has asked you herself), I'd recommend getting a solid coursebook. Not only for reasons well explained by Jeffers (excellent post, thanks). But many children, especially those really wishing to learn, get discouraged and disappointed by the opposite of what people guess. Many resources aimed at children are just dumb and trying to make the kid "forget they are learning". Well, the initially more motivated kids want to learn, they want results. Yes, the coursebook shouldn't be too dry, but it is extremely sad to hear things like "I've been taking classes for four years and don't know anything" from people aged 10-15. I also remember myself and compare the resources with those available now. My coursebook twenty years ago (when I was 9) was more traditional, much more aimed at really teaching stuff, and much more self teaching friendly than what is available today. Some things are much better, like the access to media online, some are worse, like the coursebooks for kids in general assuming a kid=an moron.

A good coursebook is the best way to learn the basics. Some books for the grown ups will do, an 11 year old is not a baby, Assimil could be fun. The Progressive workbooks are awesome at any age. Some of the coursebooks for this age category might work, but unfortunately only with a teacher as most of them are really not user friendly at all (I know a bit about what is on the market, I was picking resources for family members at your daughter's age). But some of the classroom aimed courses for the older kids could do even better. Some stuff is available for free now on the cle and didier websites. But as you are not a French speaker yourself, these monolingual resources (except probably for the Progressives) would be hard for you to use just together. But have a look at the bilingual resources for kids taking French at school.

As far as the digital tools go, most things are not too different for an 11 year old than for an older person. Many things are just trash for everybody. An SRS will work for her. Duo will be a nice extra activity but won't lead too far or teach too well. RS is just trash.

About the media: she is 11, she is not a baby, she is much closer to an adult than some people think. Don't fall for the trap "kids want to just play" (She asked you to help her learn French, not to pay for Candy Crush) or "langauges are easy for kids". They are not, a lot of things depend on the kid in question. She is highly unlikely to learn just from watching series or reading easy books. She is not a baby immersed 24/7 and in need of learning the language for survival. Also, she might hate Peppa Pig and similar stuff for babies just like I do (and many other adults). Many kids don't like being treated as babies, and both kids and adults alike are the most motivated by content that actually interests them. If you want to offer her a tv series in French, a dubbing of something she knows and loves is a safer choice, in my opinion. But it will still be rather useless to a beginner.

[insanebikerboy]

All,
Thanks for the great replies.

Our native language is English. My daughter is pretty smart and she can pick up things well, but this is the first time for her learning a language so we'll see how it goes. Work will take me across the channel to France periodically so we can practice there as well.

I think the takeaway is I'm gonna pick up the Assimil book so we can practice together. I'm enjoying reading this site and seeing all of the resources available so we can have some options as well.

[Brun Ugle]

Mango languages is free until the end of June, so if you want a bit of a challenge, you could try to get through the French course in that time. I’m currently trying to cram French, Polish, Turkish and Croatian before the end of the free period. It’s tough, but so far so good. The program doesn’t very grammar heavy and is designed to help you learn intuitively. I’ve found it to be pretty good so far, even though I normally like a lot of grammar.

I’ve used Babbel for Turkish and it is also very good. It’s not free, but I see ads popping up for it all the time on Facebook for six free months if you buy another six months, or something like that. Both Mango and Babbel make their courses individually for each language pair, and use native speakers, so they are pretty good. I haven’t used Babbel for French, but I imagine it’s at least as good as their Turkish course, and I think French is one of the languages that has more material.

The Memrise official courses are also excellent and those are free, or you can unlock more features with a pro account. They also seem to be having a perpetual 50% off sale for their one year memberships. I wouldn’t use Memrise alone, but it’s a great supplement.

None of these will take you further than A2 at best, but they are great to start with.

[Cavesa]

Insanebikerboy: It sounds like you find a very good starting point, Assimil is bound to give you both a solid start.

I must unfortunately disagree on the memrise official courses. At least the French ones are really trash, in my opinion, the content is not well thought out and could lead to problems later on. Also, I am afraid focusing on SRS too much might be the opposite of what a child needs. Memorisation is not the same thing as a game, even if it looks gamified. A more balanced approach with a coursebook (with srs possibly as a supplemental activity) might be better.

I tried several things like Duo,Memrise, etc with my siblings in the same age category. Progressives and similar resources were actually much better received. Really, a child isn't necessarily a person you need to "hide" learning from at all costs, including efficiency.

But if Mango or Babbel are good for adults, they should be good for a kid too. But why should be it necessarily a good thing that it teaches "intuitively and isn't grammar heavy"? Many children actually respond very well to grammar and its application and don't like that much the "intuitive" approaches. Especially the more gifted children, which usually tend to be the ones that ask their parents to help them learn a language. In language classes, when I was a kid, children actually liked to be taught new grammar, felt pride about how many tenses they new, and felt they were actually progressing. That is a good thing that needs to be expanded on, not destroyed.

Not all the kids (or adults) are like that, sure. But I find it totally weird that people tend to associate children automatically with distaste for learning or inability to understand grammar.

[Brun Ugle]

Insanebikerboy: It sounds like you find a very good starting point, Assimil is bound to give you both a solid start.

I must unfortunately disagree on the memrise official courses. At least the French ones are really trash, in my opinion, the content is not well thought out and could lead to problems later on. Also, I am afraid focusing on SRS too much might be the opposite of what a child needs. Memorisation is not the same thing as a game, even if it looks gamified. A more balanced approach with a coursebook (with srs possibly as a supplemental activity) might be better.

I tried several things like Duo,Memrise, etc with my siblings in the same age category. Progressives and similar resources were actually much better received. Really, a child isn't necessarily a person you need to "hide" learning from at all costs, including efficiency.

But if Mango or Babbel are good for adults, they should be good for a kid too. But why should be it necessarily a good thing that it teaches "intuitively and isn't grammar heavy"? Many children actually respond very well to grammar and its application and don't like that much the "intuitive" approaches. Especially the more gifted children, which usually tend to be the ones that ask their parents to help them learn a language. In language classes, when I was a kid, children actually liked to be taught new grammar, felt pride about how many tenses they new, and felt they were actually progressing. That is a good thing that needs to be expanded on, not destroyed.

Not all the kids (or adults) are like that, sure. But I find it totally weird that people tend to associate children automatically with distaste for learning or inability to understand grammar.

Mango doesn’t lack grammar, it simply doesn’t give tables of conjugations and make you memorize them before beginning the exercises. It teaches grammar much in the same way as Assimil, on an as needed basis, and often does so by asking you to try figuring out how to say something yourself first based on other things you’ve seen. This intuitive approach works really well for French for English speaks since the languages are so similar. I don’t find the Mango courses as good for the other languages I’m doing, though part of that might be that they are short courses and they don’t seem to have made the same effort with them as with popular languages like French.

[eido]

I'm drawing these data points from experiences I've had as a language learner. I'm in my 20s, but I've read quite a bit about how children and adolescents acquire languages. My first foray into language learning also occurred when I started high school, and I managed to have decent success, so I believe I'm qualified to speak on this topic.

• Make sure your daughter has time to herself. It may seem like it will be the hardest thing you'll ever do, but she needs time to study. French might be difficult for her as it's her first language, so she needs time to absorb it. But she seems like a bright, shining star. With the right guidance, I'm sure she'll be speaking French within a few years, no doubt.
• Give her a study plan. You can ask us here for one. This post mostly seemed to be of the "how do I convince my daughter to study French" variety. I'll give you some ideas in a minute about that, and you can use them if you like. The study plan will help guide her in her studies so that she progresses at a good speed. Study plans are essential if you want a keen learner such as your young lady to progress at a rapid rate.
• Monitor her progress. As @rdearman suggested, competing against her might be a really good thing. It would challenge her intellect and force her to make her own path toward self-improvement. She'd be speaking French fluently (CEFR level C2) in 5 years. That seems like a lot, but at her age, it's really not. My language classes lasted for four, and I got up to a B2 using self-study and the bare-minimum of teaching from my professors. At her age, it'd be a great achievement.
• Focus on accuracy. When I was studying Spanish as a freshman and sophomore, I made sure to drill vocabulary but also drill meaning. This can be done exceptionally well by writing and practicing the concepts to that effect. But more importantly, she should probably focus on pronunciation since French has notoriously difficult vowels. My guess is she finds French aesthetically pleasing, and that's why she wants to learn it. Encourage her! The grammar isn't too difficult, but with her growing brain, she might have a short attention span. Be kind and allow her to explore.
• Sit with her and ask her what might be her reasons for learning French. Keep a list of her goals with you and remind her of them when she starts to get distracted. She probably really loves the idea of learning French, but unsure of how to start and maintain momentum, which is why she's asked you the way she has. Let her do her own thang, but guide her and make sure she fulfills her duties so she accomplishes all she sets out to do.

A bit about my experience in high school:

1. It was hell until I figured out I could use a translator to help me look up words, and when I finally figured out how to use a dictionary properly. Don't let your daughter go through the same pain!
2. All the same, don't let your daughter slide by and have an easy time of it. She should be tested often, without using a book or dictionary. That way, she can prove she really knows the words. Open-book tests are the worst for testing your knowledge of a concept. Keep her on her toes and ready to go!
3. Ask her to define words. This is another way of proving her knowledge of certain vocabulary.
4. Ask her to "use her own words" to explain concepts relating to the French language.

All in all, you want her to develop a sense of independence and intellectual curiosity. It shouldn't be hard given you're her dad. Make sure to support her in all she does!

Some study plan ideas for your pleasure:

• Grammaire Progressive du Francais (A1)
  This series is great for beginners and those who would want a good base in grammar like your daughter probably does. It also follows well with the idea of a structure and a good study plan.
• French In Action
  Good for beginners to get grammar, listening, and vocabulary.
• RFI
  An excellent news program from France that covers all areas of the Francophone world. I'm sure your daughter and yourself could have many interesting and intellectual-based discussions on what's going on in the world based on the content of these broadcasts.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask me! These topics are my bread and butter, my lifeblood.

[Cavesa]

eido's plan is very ambitious, I wouldn't push her so hard, unless she is that type of a person and really wants great results.

I don't think aiming for C2 in 5 years is reasonable, even though it would be great.

When thinking of my own beginings at the age of 9, the problems, the advantages, I'd say the main goals might be:
1.a solid foundation, and progress from there
2.avoiding learning mistakes
3.motivation, language learning as a normal part of life
4.and access to the culture. I'd say Asterix might play a role there accessible once she'll have learnt the basics, fun, and a perfect representat of all the fun she'll get access to.

But a lot of the stuff in the post is very good.

[seito]

Just wanted to note that Pimsleur and Assimil are available in app form these days. I don't know how much the Assimil app costs, but Pimsleur subscriptions are very, very cheap compared to the CD version.