Using Authentic Material 100% ?

[issemiyaki]

Feeling a little guilty here.

I'm trying to decide whether I'm ready to make the leap to 100% Authentic Materials to continue my French learning.

My French comprehension has increased dramatically, and now I don't want to go back to the method books for students. I find them boring, and frankly, I get more vocabulary and great phrases out of listening to one television interview than in one lesson in a book. Yet, there are many great books out there, some very old like this one, which I feel could help me a lot. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... 1up&seq=19

However, the reason I feel guilty is because it was langauge websites like: RFI and TV5 that taught me to listen differently.

(The listening exercises force you to use a top-down approach. Meaning, it's impossible to answer the question if you're constantly focused on the nitty-gritty of words. You must, FIRST AND FOREMOST, have captured the essence of what was said if you hope to have a chance at answering the listening comprehension questions correctly.) The strategy is brilliant. The exercises were clearly done by PROFESSIONALS who know what they are doing.

However, I used the same top-down listening strategy on regular TV and now I'm hooked. It's like I'm a kid in a candy shop who has just been released.

But the thing is, language learning websites like RFI, TV5, Comme Une Française, etc., are MASTERFUL at making you think that if you move away from student-centered material you are going to have gaps in your language skills. Not sure if it's an intended marketing strategy, but that's the overtone I'm sensing.

So, that is the dilemma I'm facing and I'm sure many of us have reached this juncture before.

And I'll be honest, maybe a part of my guilt has to do with simply wanting to put a book on my shelf so I can say: I have completed and CONQUERED THAT book, thus, that's confirmation that I've reached level C1 or whatever. It's almost as if by completing these books or some online course, one has a sense of validation, which honestly might be short-lived because you surely won't remember EVERYTHING you learned in that book or course.

So, curious to get your thoughts about my dilemma. Look forward to your comments.

[iguanamon]

Why do so many posts posit an "either/or" premise?! I am a firm believer in using native materials for learning. Still there is always a place for some learning materials, even courses, provided that you aren't going back over beginner material. For most of my languages, once I am finished with the main course- that's it. There are no more courses for Haitian Creole; Lesser Antilles French Creole; Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol and sparse resources for Catalan after initial courses. I have benefited from advanced courses in Spanish and Portuguese.

Grammar books with plenty of examples are very useful too. Some of the ones for bigger languages even have exercises. If combined with native materials in learning, that's a winning combination. I have seen Cavesa and others recommend the CLE Grammar series and had a look at them. They're good. Assimil also has further advanced courses for French-learners. The ratio doesn't have to be evenly balanced (the balance can be anywhere on the scale- even 90% native to 10% learner material) but if a learner incorporates some of these materials into their learning plan then they can take advantage of the power of synergy. Synergy means that you see hear a word, phrase or grammar concept one place or two places and then see the same in a grammar or course and it tends to make it more sticky. It can give an "Aha!" moment in which a learner says to theirself- "That's why they do it that way!" I am so lucky to have a grammar in Haitian Creole written in L2 that I can consult when I want to or need it. I also have some great dictionaries with plenty of example sentences. Even at high levels they are quite useful.

So, my advice is to delve into as much native material as you want, but don't deny yourself the opportunity to learn even more from structured material for more advanced learners. You are lucky to have such material available in a big language like French. No need to cut it all out. Take advantage of it! The balance can skew however you want. It can only help your French.

[Kraut]

For the fun inbetween.

Canulars telephoniques

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwZ-7Z4 ... wqQkaMo2UK

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Tripadvisor reviews

https://www.tripadvisor.fr/Hotel_Review ... ml#REVIEWS

use "Translate Man" (Google Tranlate with TTS)

[issemiyaki]

@Iguanaman, thank you for such a thoughtful response.

I am sure that it will benefit others who might be mulling over the same questions.

Thanks so much!

[Iversen]

I have used texbooks for some languages, but only at the initial stages where native comprehensible texts may be hard to find - and mostly in the old days, before I got the idea to use Google Translate to produce bilingual texts. And I have more or less dropped them today. Last time I used one was when I decided to have a look at Occitan, using the Assimil book. I found it irritating more than helpful, partly because of the irrelevant and boring texts, but first and foremost because the actual information content in each lesson was way too low, and I hate those stupid games and tests. As for the grammar content in recent textbooks it has simply been dumbed down to a level where I feel it as an insult more than an aid. I do however still use the concise grammar sections in small language guides (including those from Berlitz or from Assimil, which are almost like French versions of the corresponding booklets of the German Kauderwelsch series) because they prepare me for using more detailed grammar sources (books or specialized internet pages).

Those booklets also give me some basic information about writing systems and sounds. To get a hold on the alphabets the most efficient study method is simply to transcribe something, but I have not added a totally new writing system for a long time - only variations on something I already knew (Latin, Greek, Cyrillic - and cursorily things like the Runic alphabets, Georgian writing and Korean Hangul). So the main task here has been to listen to short snippets of speech where I also had access to the corresponding text. I know that modern textbooks systems come with audio, but I don't use that part of the systems. Instead I have used certain Youtube videos, but also speech synthethizers (including the one in Google translate, which is passable for som language and ghastly for others) - and then I have listened to authentic speech to correct my first rough impressions.

And most of my later work is based on written NATIVE sources, since it would be totally idiotic to use textbooks for beginners at that stage.

[Cavesa]

I agree with Iguanamon here. Combine tons of native resources with some good tools for advanced learners. Truth be told, you won't have that many gaps, if you devour hundreds and hundreds of hours of content. And you'll profit from the exposure even more, if you complete it with exactly the "That's why they do it that way!" effect Iguanamon describes.

Tools like podcasts for learners are great, but you need to leave those training wheels behind at some point. That doesn't mean they cannot be part of your routine to some extent, if you really find them valuable at this point. But either you leave this comfort zone, or you won't move beyond it. And if the main value are questions and tests, you can basically test yourself by summarising tv series episodes. And you also know how well you understand something, don't underestimate this. People tend to believe, that you must be lying to yourself and overestimating your skills, unless there is a teacher (or a written equivalent of a teacher) testing you. Nope. If you're a reasonable person (which in this case means just not having some weird illusion of being too perfect), you know whether you've understood the basics, or everything.

Don't worry about it too much. Just do what feels useful at the given moment. Unless you get stuck at too easy stuff, you'll be progressing. And don't forget, that the progress at your level will now look slow, just because you are quite advanced already, so there is no point in second guessing your strategy every week.

[lusan]

Don't worry about it too much. Just do what feels useful at the given moment. Unless you get stuck at too easy stuff, you'll be progressing.

My own philosophy!
After B1 level, moving into native material is the way to go. No regret. It will be slow no doubt about it.