Italki tutors/teachers at A2 level

[vm_nm]

Has anyone tried Italki tutors or teachers at beginner level, like A2?

I'm wondering if shall I go for a pro teacher or a community tutor.

I can have very basic conversations (surely full of mistakes ) but I don't feel ready for a typical conversation class/exchange yet.

Pro community tutor:

• I'm not really looking for language instruction. I'd rather study new grammar on my own, in peace and quiet, and then practice using it.
• working with a community tutor in a relaxed atmosphere might be more helpful for getting confident than very detailed feedback from a teacher (makes me self-conscious)

Possible con:

• maybe it's not realistic to expect a non-pro to be able to adapt to beginner level?

I could imagine e.g. agreeing on 4 grammar items ahead of time (25% old stuff, 25% review from last time, 50% new) and studying them on my own so that I understand how they work in theory. I'd for example read up on it in a grammar book, look up example sentences online, and try to work it into my own sentences on lang-8. Then meet with the teacher/tutor and have them use the new grammar as often as possible during the lesson, and have them ask me questions that'll allow me to apply it when speaking.

I'm not sure if that makes sense, and if it does, if it's realistic at A2 working with a community tutor, so I'm very interested in hearing about other people's experience.

[tastyonions]

I tried some Italian tutoring when I was probably around A2 comprehension and A1 production level and it was...painful. This had nothing to do with my tutor, who was competent enough, but more to do with constantly running up against holes in active vocabulary, making "approximations" or bad guesses based on my French and Spanish knowledge, and so on. For me it just wasn't that fun. I know that some enjoy lessons or conversations right from the beginning, but I am going to wait until I can understand at least a few movies and write some basic paragraphs without errors to step into italki sessions for Italian again.

[Brun Ugle]

Just because someone is a community teacher doesn't mean they aren't a pro. Some professional teachers do informal tutoring as well as professional lessons.

I think you can do informal tutoring on your level, but make sure you write to the person and tell them what you want and ask if they can provide it before you even schedule your lesson. I usually write a fairly detailed first message. I would at least tell them my level and how I want to do the session. At a very low level, you could still practice the kinds of dialogues in your textbook. For example, if you're studying a lesson about family members, you can tell your tutor about your family and have him tell you about his. You just have to make sure your tutor knows your level and is willing and able to speak slowly and in simple sentences if that's what you need. You might have to try a few different ones to find one you click with, but I've had good luck there, so I don't think it will be too difficult. And don't worry about boring them to death. You're paying them for that.

[vm_nm]

I thought I'd post an update for people who might come across this thread later.

So I went ahead and I booked a trial lesson with a Japanese teacher who had in her description that she is happy to work with total beginners.
I was indeed a bit painful.

When booking the lesson, I wrote her a nice long email in Japanese about what I'm looking for and that my speaking level is especially low.
I'm not sure if writing in Japanese was such a good idea. When I sent it, I was in a "grab every opportunity to practice" mood, and I wanted to show her I'm motivated, but I worked on that email for an hour or so, and the result didn't really give a correct impression of my level, and I also wasn't able to say everything I wanted.

At the beginning of the lesson, the teacher invited me (in English) to tell her about myself, and asked me if I'd like to try in Japanese. I did, and at first it went ok, I was able to understand her; some questions I could answer right away, others I had to think about a bit. I asked her for a few words when we talked about my hobbies and I made some mistakes that she corrected, but it was worth being called a conversation.

It started to get really difficult about 15 minutes into the lesson, because at that point, I had pretty much exhausted both my Japanese knowledge and my mental energy. I struggled with staying focused and felt like I suddenly dropped to pre-A1: When she asked me to repeat sentences after her, I needed several attempts to get them right, and when she wrote things down and asked me to read, I managed to make mistakes with very simple words. I also had short moments of my mind just going completely blank.

I've scheduled another lesson with a community tutor and sent her the exact conversation topics I'd like to practice, and will make sure to use more English during the lesson to to avoid premature "brain fry".

I also asked her to not correct me when I speak, but to just write down the correct version in the chat window without drawing my attention to it. Normally I like feedback, but at my current level, I'm so challenged with speaking at all that I'm literally not able to process any feedback at the same time. I'd rather review it later and put some of it into Anki.

[lusan]

I am using Italki for Polish. I had the same issue since I am A2-B1 territory. However, I found a way around: become a false beginner.
I agreed with the teacher to work with a beginner book. We go page by page doing all the exercises which I am supposed to do before the class.
The conversations are in polish and the dialogues are read aloud to improved pronunciation, etc. At the beginning of the hour, we do small talks in Polish for 15 min, she gives me a bunch of corrections that I drop into Anki. Then we work with the book. Since the level is below what I know, I have no vocabulary nor theoretical grammar issues - we do not worry about it. The book is a center around which the Polish conversation happens.
In addition, I get writing homework -polish grammar is very hard- and we talk all the time.

Does it work? I began having relaxed polish conversation with my wife who is polish and she said that since I began t my fluency improved...I mean, the ah...ah...ahh..mm.. and thinking while speaking are gone... Actually the more I do it the more relaxed I feel, though the classes feel terrifying because I always end with an enhanced sense of humility!

Of course, it is very hard because the student is under the gun all the time. The teacher corrects everyone of my mistakes and we keep notes in skype. It is painful to realize that there so much to learn. One more thing...I also listen 2 hour every to Polish podcasts, do Anki, and read silently and aloud. After all, the real learning happens between classes. Italki is not more than another tool in the language journey.

Maybe this approach will help you.

[vm_nm]

Interesting. That sounds not totally different from what I suggested to the tutor - I gave her a link to the conversation topics of an A2 textbook (which is lower than the materials I otherwise work on), so I would already know the required grammar and most of the vocab, allowing me to focus on speaking. My plan was also to do the textbook exercises as review before the lesson. It's encouraging to hear that a similar approach worked well for you.

I completely agree that the actual learning needs to happen in between lessons.

[neofight78]

If you suffer from brain overload then I would book 30 minute lessons (if you are not already). Treat it like exercise, if you're worn out by the end, it's a good sign so long as you don't completely overdo it.

My approach has always been, and I by no means claim this is optimal, to just try to have normal conversations about whatever I like. If I don't know how to say something I just ask (in English) and just keep going. After the lesson I review the notes/corrections and take on board any new vocabulary and those structures that I understand. So bit by bit, I've learned how to say the things I want to say and how to say them.

Getting the right teacher is key, you need someone who can support the conversation. Generally professional teachers do better, but it's not a hard and fast rule. I tend to value experience, especially experience offline, these teachers tend to know what they are doing and how to deal with all the common problems. I tend to ignore the videos because I've not found them a reliable guide (not everyone is good in front of the camera). Instead I look at the experience and the number of students they have that keep coming back.

Don't make the mistake of feeling loyal to your first teacher. Try a few, in order to find someone who can teach and with whom you have some chemistry (i.e. they are actually somebody you like talking to). I've found it's quite helpful to have the same conversation with different tutors in the same week. In the first one you kind of bumble around making all sorts of mistakes and forgetting things, and when you have the second lesson you've worked on some of the feedback and can put in a more polished performance. It helps cement things in your memory and builds confidence. BTW I've found, at least for me, that only around 1 in 10 teachers are a really good match, so don't necessarily expect to find a good teacher straightaway.

Just some random thoughts, I hope some may be of use!

[tarvos]

I use community tutors at A1-A2 all the time. What you want to do in such a case is be very proactive and engaged in conversation. I've even pulled it off in Finnish in which I have no related knowledge to draw on. I've also pulled it off in Mandarin. A few tips:

- Find a teacher you work well with and who is fun to talk to. If they couldn't become your friend, they're out if you're working with them at the A stage. It follows that you should try several teachers.
- Prepare your damn conversation topics beforehand. I have a Finnish document where I reviewed all my lesson notes and made notes of new questions and structures I wanted to use. It worked.
- Schedule shorter, not longer sessions (in Finnish it was impossible, I could only do 60 mins, but usually you can do 30).
- Know that grammar is less important than vocabulary at this stage. Vocab gets prioritized. You can fill out grammar gaps later.
- Have GT or a dictionary open next to you and CHEAT CHEAT CHEAT FROM YOUR CHEAT SHEET. This is not an issue. At this point you will need to learn the words and you don't know them, so cheat your way through until you remember them.
- Phrasebooks are your friend. They have entire phrases you can use.

Using tutors at the A level is very different from using them at the B or C levels. A is a very basic stage. It's like playing sports. A is when you're a kid and the tutor teaches you how to swim (paddle!). B is when you can swim and stay afloat, but you need to learn more advanced stroke techniques to go faster. C is when you're an expert or a pro swimmer, but you need to focus on the details that win you matches.

Same with languages.

At A you can't really speak very well, so you need to make sure that you can.
At B you can do the basics, but the advanced stuff is still out of your reach. This is when grammar helps.
At C you're pretty versatile, but this is when you need to be polishing all the time to continuously perform at a top level.

It's ok not to do everything at C level. Not everyone is a top rock climber either, after all.

[garyb]

Personally I prefer to learn the basics alone and leave tutors until more advanced levels, but everyone is different and some people like Tarvos above find them very useful at a lower level. For many people, talking to someone is probably a lot more interesting and stimulating than just self-learning from courses.

I was looking at tutors on iTalki yesterday, and I noticed that quite a few advertise as being specialised in teaching beginners. I'm not sure whether this is a good thing - on one hand it means they should be patient which is important if your concern is not feeling ready, but on the other, I have an image of someone following a rigid plan to teach absolute beginners things that they could easily learn by themselves from a phrasebook. And A2 is quite different from absolute beginner.

In the language learning industry, the biggest market is people at beginner to low-intermediate level. I'd imagine that most tutors are aware of this and able to adapt, as it's their bread and butter.

[tarvos]

'The thing is that you use them for different purposes. I tend to switch tutors for different levels. Horses for courses.

The other part is that I need reality to motivate me, and books are not reality. I live in a real world where the need for me to speak another language often eclipses that of reading purely because I move around a lot and for work reasons.