Getting Mad At Your Language

[iguanamon]

Zen philosophy tells us that it is our expectations that make us unhappy in life. When we let go of those expectations, we are often freer and more able to succeed than before.

As a second language-learner, outside of a TL country, there's only so far that a learner can take a language, with limited time and an outside life pretty much taking place in L1. Don't get me wrong, you can still take a language pretty far and be close to native... but I know that I will never be at a native's level in any of my languages and I accept that. I can get close sometimes and that earns me a certain amount of respect from those native-speakers with whom I engage in the language.

What I've learned is that there is, indeed, such a thing as "good enough". While I may never arrive at the elusive "promised land", the journey is reward enough in itself. It is worthwhile and useful. A language is as useful to a learner as the learner wants it to be. Even without travel to TL countries, opportunities for use abound in an online environment and in a personal environment by making human connections either through social media or in-person. It isn't easy. It takes time. There are missteps and failures along the way too. The thing is to not let those missteps and failures affect you too much.

Every language, as StringerBell points out has its own idiosyncrasies and "craziness". How would you like to be a foreigner learning English when you find out that before you can "chop a tree up" you first have to "chop it down"?! Of course, "chop a tree up" is a phrasal verb which doesn't mean to make the tree stand again. An English-learner has to grasp the concept of phrasal verbs which most often doesn't quite exist in their L1. It takes time to master unique concepts in a language.

One reason I don't recommend that monolingual learners take on more than one foreign language before reaching a high level in their first second language, is that it takes a lot of mental energy to break the resistance to these concepts in a monolingual's mind. The subjunctive mood in the Romance languages can be a stumbling block for learners. Now imagine trying to get past that stumbling block while simultaneously trying to overcome similar stumbling blocks in four or five other languages and it can just be too much for most learners to do. The resulting sense of failure often leads to dissatisfaction and a feeling of despair, a feeling of never being able to really learn a language.

Language-learning can be a lot of fun, as we all know. It can give learners great satisfaction and a feeling of accomplishment in a world where much is out of our control. So much so, that we may feel as if we can "learn them all", before we may be ready to "learn them all". When the reality of what it means to learn them all meets the learner's expectations, something has to give. Either the learner accepts that it is going to be a long journey, or they get mad at the language(s) and give up, or... somewhere in between those two extremes.

The path to success lies in being able to negotiate between expectations and reality. It may seem counter-intuitive to not expect to master a language, but to master a language it is often necessary not to expect to do so. This is just my opinion, experience and observation.

[IronMike]

After the Russian government's actions last year that had a direct effect on me and my family, I "broke up" with Russian. Just couldn't stomach it. Removed it from my social media. Put the books (most of them) in the basement so I wouldn't have to see them. Told my boss that I didn't want to study the language anymore.

That disgusted feeling has only recently disappeared. I actually miss the place. I miss the language. I'm enjoying studying it again. I always knew the break up would be temporary, but had no idea it would last such a short time. I expected to stay away from Russian for a couple more years!

But I've never felt mad enough at my language(s) to give up on the hobby outright. I have a lot of hobbies (some would say too many...like my wife) and I've dabbled in many (fencing, equestrian, writing, copyediting, orienteering, Scouting, rpg's, homebrewing) which last or don't, but language learning has been around since 1981. And I suspect it will continue being a hobby of mine till I stop waking up on this side of the grass every morning.

Now, off to do some L-R in Russian.

[Ice Blue]

I'm rather laid-back when it comes to language learning - at most I'll sometimes be slightly annoyed that this word I've been looking up the definition three times in the last five minutes still hasn't stuck. Oh, I definitely got a bit mad at German though. For many years I watched Youtube videos and had so much trouble understanding anything...

With Hungarian I was more confused than mad, more like "Hungarian, what are you doing? Hungarian stahp".

[Denzagathist]

I've never had the exact experience of getting mad at the language itself, but I've definitely had cases where I developed negative feelings toward it due to external (non-linguistic) reasons. Much like IronMike's story with Russian, at this time last year I was vowing to abandon Japanese forever, and yet here I am studying (and enjoying) it again now. You definitely can and should take breaks. Although it's frustrating to have lost some progress during my break from Japanese, it's better to allow yourself a break so that you can return to the language feeling refreshed, than to force yourself to continue when you simply don't feel like it anymore, and as a result worsen your relationship with the language and potentially abandon it forever.

I've certainly also wondered why I can't speak a particular language yet, given how long I have (or how long it seems like I have) been studying it. In my experience, it is usually just that I haven't actually been studying as long/much/seriously as I thought, and need to refocus my efforts and/or adjust my practices. But it's often easier, when following that train of thought, to make yourself believe that the task is just impossible and that you'd be better off giving up altogether.

And about language learning more generally, I've taken hiatuses from it too, but again usually due to reasons unrelated to the hobby. But if you've found that it's no longer as rewarding as it used to be or you thought it would be -- or if it's just not "your thing" -- there's no shame in that either! Take a break if you need and come back later if the motivation returns, or try a new hobby! Remember, it's supposed to be fun

[lavengro]

I am essentially a monolingual, but even I get mad at my (native) language from time to time. Despite occasional frustrations my options are pretty restricted, as I have learned to my disadvantage that miming has its limitations in everyday life.

[Sayonaroo]

I get mad and annoyed at Korean from time to time since I can compare it to Japanese. I mostly get annoyed having to resort to google or chiebukuro (japanese yahoo answers), discord, or reddit to find out what a word or sentence means. I find that the Japanese dictionary is more helpful for Japanese than the Korean dictionary is for Korean. Also the writing system of Japanese is more transparent than Korean since they write foreign words in katakana, they use kanji etc. I rarely have to venture out to chiebukuro or google to find out what something means for Japanese while for Korean it feels like the dictionary is completely useless half-the-time. I only notice this because I can compare my experience learning Japanese to learning Korean. I can only imagine how much more frustrating and annoying it would be if if I didn't know Japanese since the Japanese internet is full of a lot of helpful bloggers and websites etc. I'm not looking up useless, obscure Korean words that Korean people don't know (I am not at that level and I am not striving for that). I'm looking up words that Korean people understand that I don't understand. But I'm sure I may sound entitled since there are languages with way less resources.

if anyone's curious, this is stuff i asked on reddit recently.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comment ... %B41_mean/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comment ... 9%83_mean/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comment ... C%80_mean/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comment ... 8%88_mean/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comment ... D%85_mean/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comment ... %ED%99%94/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comment ... mean_here/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comment ... 4%B8_mean/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comment ... _god_here/

[Mooby]

I periodically find that learning a language is, as the poet and novelist Robert Penn Warren said about writing, a pain I can't live without.

[David1917]

I've never given up on "languages" per se, because I've spoken Spanish for more than half my life now, but I have given up on certain languages. Most recently it would be Hungarian (take 2). Hungarian was the first foreign language I wanted to learn as an adult (c. 2009), and I went to a Rosetta Stone store to try it out. Well, they don't make Hungarian, but they do make Russian and, the rest is history there. In 2013, after having learned Russian and a couple others pretty well, I decided it was finally time to get to Hungarian. I used the Assimil book, listening every day on bike rides to the day's dialogue numerous times, then returned home and copied out the text and tried to follow the notes. By the time the active wave began, I was like ".....huh?" And frustrated that I had wasted several weeks to come back with NO ability to produce the language, I gave up.

I've hinted at all this before, but here's the long version. In 2018, I applied to a graduate program at the University College of London, in collaboration with a consortium of Eastern European universities for 2-year Master's programs in Eastern European politics. My first choice was of course to spend the 2nd year in Moscow, but they ended up offering me a scholarship on the contingency that I take my 2nd year in Budapest instead. So I said, well, let's learn Hungarian! I restarted the Assimil book (and I had developed a proper system for using it through my study of Persian), ordered the Trubner's Colloquial, and checked out a couple other exercise books from interlibrary loan. I thought, I have to get to at least be able to test into 2nd semester Hungarian, because any 1st semester language class would probably give me an aneurysm.

Despite having the scholarship, I still did not have adequate funding to move to/live in the most expensive city in the world for a full year. I applied for a usurious private loan out of last-minute desperation and, upon being denied, had to pull the plug on the whole operation. I had given up my lease, sold a lot of my possessions, and put people close to me through emotional turmoil. I was also frustrated with UCL's communication/lack thereof, the direction I saw many of the courses taking from previewing syllabi online, and the idea of having to shift my "specialty" to Hungary rather than Russia. Nonetheless, I tried to keep studying Hungarian, since I was making good progress and spoke a little bit on vacation in Budapest shortly after making this decision but, I eventually couldn't deal with doing it anymore and have all-but abandoned it.

[eido]

I’m not sure I recall correctly how many languages you are taking on currently, eido, but I think it will help bring some perspective if you tell us here in this thread how many you are/have been attempting to learn and to what level.

I was trying to learn two at the same time. I was mainly watching videos in Spanish, and since I can't figure out a good way to learn Korean, I was just reading through a grammar resource and going through a couple Anki decks a day. Occasionally I went on my favorite Japanese SRS and studied some kanji and radicals.

I don't find the concepts in any of the languages hard. I just find every reason not to use them. I love theory only for so long. Then I want to speak. And I just find excuses not to... It's an endless loop.

I've accepted I don't know what I want, but I also accept that I can't accept not knowing what I want. And I remain in a state of limbo.

[Xenops]

I suspect you are taking on too much, and your anger may simply be, as you suspect, reality hitting you smack in the face (or termed otherwise - ‘resistance’)... and perhaps you’re not being entirely honest with yourself in this case, the one you definitely must be the most clear with, if you are to increase your chances of succeeding. Could you be dreaming of what you want to achieve and not being honest with the fact is starting to appear a bit of an over-stretch? (= resistance against the reality of the situation). What I mean is, are you seriously looking at what you’re actually attempting to learn (all at once) and seriously asking yourself if you can achieve your objectives (without turning your life into one massive never ending non-stop no rest for the wicked study of language with no room for anything else)?

It wasn't originally directed at me, but boy can I relate. I wrote about it on my DeviantArt page: https://www.deviantart.com/hestia-edwards/journal/It-s-Confession-Time-803758307

External circumstances sapped the enjoyment of Spanish for me: but realistically, I don't think Spanish had a strong hold to begin with. Japanese I find frustrating because on top of the 2,000 kanji you have to learn, some words have two kanji for no apparent reason, or can be written in kanji or hiragana, or a word that is pronounced the same but uses different kanji depending on the meaning. I also find it frustrating because the amount of time I've put in Japanese seems like a drop or two in the bucket, while the same amount of time would get me to a solid B level in a transparent language.

Oh well.