Chinese: quick questions about tone sandhi

[learningchayse]

I'm not exactly sure when to apply these phonetic changes. Do these changes only apply within a single word? If not, what about between the last word at the end of one sentence and the first word in the next sentence?

If I had the following tones in succession, what would happen?

3, 3, 4

Would it be pronounced as 2, half-3rd, 4? 3, 3 becomes 2, 3, then 3, 4, becomes half-3rd, 4? It seems like full 3rd tones would rarely be pronounced.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Tricky even for me as a native Chinese speaker.
I would say if you pronounce as its original tones, it does not sound off to me.
But if you would like to speak faster, more naturally, the rules that you have given are right.

3, 3, 4 becomes 2, half-3rd, 4, as in xiao2huo3*ban4,
3, 3 becomes 2, 3, as in ni2hao3, zheng2li3,
3, 4, becomes half-3rd as in biao3*shi4.

Thanks for giving me a chance to think of the rules I otherwise wouldn't have thought about.

P.S. Let me know if you are interested in language exchange.

[RubiksKid]

Tricky even for me as a native Chinese speaker.
I would say if you pronounce as its original tones, it does not sound off to me.
But if you would like to speak faster, more naturally, the rules that you have given are right.

3, 3, 4 becomes 2, half-3rd, 4, as in xiao2huo3*ban4,
3, 3 becomes 2, 3, as in ni2hao3, zheng2li3,
3, 4, becomes half-3rd as in biao3*shi4.

Thanks for giving me a chance to think of the rules I otherwise wouldn't have thought about.

P.S. Let me know if you are interested in language exchange.

Thanks for the response! And to answer your question, while I would certainly be interested in language exchange, I don't think I'm a good candidate right now. My Chinese is still very rudimentary (between 100 and 200 words only), and once I return to school this upcoming semester I'll have significantly less time to practice.

Once I build a foundation I would definitely be interested in language exchange though.

[learningchayse]

Tricky even for me as a native Chinese speaker.
I would say if you pronounce as its original tones, it does not sound off to me.
But if you would like to speak faster, more naturally, the rules that you have given are right.

3, 3, 4 becomes 2, half-3rd, 4, as in xiao2huo3*ban4,
3, 3 becomes 2, 3, as in ni2hao3, zheng2li3,
3, 4, becomes half-3rd as in biao3*shi4.

Thanks for giving me a chance to think of the rules I otherwise wouldn't have thought about.

P.S. Let me know if you are interested in language exchange.

Thanks for the response! And to answer your question, while I would certainly be interested in language exchange, I don't think I'm a good candidate right now. My Chinese is still very rudimentary (between 100 and 200 words only), and once I return to school this upcoming semester I'll have significantly less time to practice.

Once I build a foundation I would definitely be interested in language exchange though.

Hope you enjoy learning Chinese

[RubiksKid]

Hope you enjoy learning Chinese

I like it a lot. I've never studied a tonal language before, so I think the whole idea is fascinating. It's a great challenge.

[Darker 河马]

Yes, 3-3-4 becomes 2-3(half)-4, or, more accurately, 【35-21-51】, if you know about the "five-pitch diagram" used for precise illustration of tones， according to which , 1st = 【55】, 2nd = 【35】, 3rd = 【214】, 4th =【51】.

Generally, a 3rd tone, which is 【214】 on its own, becomes
(a.) 【21】, or "half 3rd" as you said, unless
(b.) followed by another 3rd tone, and becomes a【35】， which is a 2nd tone obviouly.

some examples: 小车【21-55】，小人【21-35】，小手【35-21】，小兔【21-51】，小子【21-neutral】

Here is a picture showing you the "five-pitch diagram" :



As to why there are such varients of the 3rd tone, I would say that a 【214】would take too much time in a natural flow of speech, and two 【21】's , being two consecutive low-pitch sounds, would not be easy to utter and recognize.

[leosmith]

Here is a picture showing you the "five-pitch diagram" :

I couldn't see your image, so I'm re-posting for clarity:

[leosmith]

小手【35-21】

I would think this s/b 35-214, at least if it came at the end of a sentence like 我喜欢她漂亮的小手。

[Darker 河马]

小手【35-21】

I would think this s/b 35-214, at least if it came at the end of a sentence like 我喜欢她漂亮的小手。

Thanks for posting the picture, I don't know why my attempt failed.

My reply yesterday could be confusing. I gave five
examples of words but didn't mention that they were meant for conversations.

小手, be it at the end of a sentence or not , would be 35-214 ONLY if u want to highlight it, like :

when u correct people by saying "是小手，不是小丑",
or when the Mandarin teacher is trying to make every syllable sound 100% complete for students (Chinese or foreign ), which is not the case in a real conversation.

And yes, if I am asked to read 小手 out loud for didactive purposes, I d say it 35-214.