If you had 3 hours a day, could you advance ‘well’ in 6 or 7 languages?

[PeterMollenburg]

I have indeed enjoyed your ramblings! I always like reading about people's plans and schedules.

I am not in a position to offer any advice, but I like the 6 week cycle idea. In fact, I recently chose that cycle myself, and made a brief post about it in my log. Danish is the language that I am determined to take to a very high level, but there is no way I could or should continue with just Danish.

I currently have immediate use for both Dutch and Spanish, and looking forward I expect to need Polish more than Danish over the next five years. Hence the six week plan. The 6WChallenges will take care of the lower level languages. The six week interim plus the 365 Day Challenge ensures that Danish does not get neglected.

Are you still planning to homeschool? If so, you will find that your penchant for planning and scheduling musings will come in handy when you start figuring out your homeschool. For many of us homeschool parents, it is considered a fun part of the job

Wow, yes, what I've come up with is remarkably similar to what you'd been planning to do with your languages. In fact, you may have read that I was considering (or maybe I didn't type this in this thread?) under the circumstances with more languages on my plate to always have French as the focus every 2nd 6 week period, with other languages in between. And indeed my French is your Danish, and we're both trying to tackle Dutch as well. Nice to see some similarities with someone on the forum

Yes, I do like the 6 week idea too. I feel that it will pressure me when it comes time for French to pick 1 or 2 main activities and really work hard on them. With Dutch it's all about ploughing through previous learned material and covering as much ground a possible until someday I reach material I've not previously used (that will be an accomplishment to please me, considering I'd done 600+ hours of Dutch in 2011 while in NL via many course books). Anyway, my wife agrees it's a good plan, and like you there's still 30 minutes/day (well could be slightly more some days) of your main language when it's in maintenance mode.

I had similar thoughts with the 6 week challenge ' down time' too. To focus on my more advanced language then (French) and use the 365 day challenge when not focusing on French during the 6 weeks off from the 6WC (in which I'll be using Dutch). The dates might be six weeks that smallwhite sets, but I'll be heading for half way into that 2nd month so that when the language changes, I get exactly the same number of days. In other words, I could be running some days over the 6WC still on Dutch before swapping to English to make it as even as possible.

Yeah, still going to homeschool. My wife is much more on top of this and when I say on top of.. well, our life was in turmoil for 6 months or more, with a projected move to Saudi, so we didn't really stock up on any homeschooling gear prior to the preposed transition. So, not only are we a tad behind schedule there (but nothing to worry about), but what I have in the way of French materials is far behind the English content my wife has built up. Furthermore, I won't be doing it as often as my wife will. At the end of the day, as long as I do some of the teaching on a somewhat regular basis, and I remain teaching the kids French and Dutch daily, i'll be satisfied.

Yes, I have to have schedules, even if I dont follow them. I need structure to progress, not only in my languages, but to plan days with the children and to have a healthy routine with room for give and take. Thanks for your comments Elsa Maria, I hope your languages are coming along well and the homeschooling. I wish you well in the 6 week cyclic rotation and will spare a thought for you on occasion as I wonder how you're doing with a similar routine to mine.

[Elsa Maria]

My youngest will be graduating from our homeschool in less than one month, so my homeschool career is wrapping up. That is why I have decided to try learning an unreasonable number of languages - at least until I figure out my Next Big Adventure

[StringerBell]

Then I changed my mind only to think, that considering I'd like the children to learn some Spanish and/or Norwegian some day, that it would make sense that I introduce (instead of Arabic or Russian) one of these two languages or both like this:

Another way to look at it could be: You've already given your kids a foundation in English, French (and now it sounds like some Dutch). When they get a little bit older, they get to decide for themselves which languages they are interested in (if any) and they get to take control of what they learn. Being bilingual will already have given them a huge advantage...I don't think it's necessary to stress out about learning a ton of other languages just to be able to read them in those languages in a few years. There is a chance that going overboard now could have unintended negative consequences and at some point make them resent the pressure to always learn a new language. (Sometimes the best intentions can backfire spectacularly).

So, my vote is that if you add any languages, it's because you, yourself, truly want to learn them, not because you hope to one day include it as a language in which you speak to your kids - that may happen organically, but I don't think you should force it. For all you know, your kids might decide later in life that learning languages isn't their thing but feel trapped by your expectations.

I, personally, suggest that you stick with French and one other language for the time being. I am currently working on two languages right now, and in my view adding a third before I've reached the level where I want to be with either of them would really just be self-sabotage.

[PeterMollenburg]

Then I changed my mind only to think, that considering I'd like the children to learn some Spanish and/or Norwegian some day, that it would make sense that I introduce (instead of Arabic or Russian) one of these two languages or both like this:

Another way to look at it could be: You've already given your kids a foundation in English, French (and now it sounds like some Dutch). When they get a little bit older, they get to decide for themselves which languages they are interested in (if any) and they get to take control of what they learn. Being bilingual will already have given them a huge advantage...I don't think it's necessary to stress out about learning a ton of other languages just to be able to read them in those languages in a few years. There is a chance that going overboard now could have unintended negative consequences and at some point make them resent the pressure to always learn a new language. (Sometimes the best intentions can backfire spectacularly).

So, my vote is that if you add any languages, it's because you, yourself, truly want to learn them, not because you hope to one day include it as a language in which you speak to your kids - that may happen organically, but I don't think you should force it. For all you know, your kids might decide later in life that learning languages isn't their thing but feel trapped by your expectations.

I, personally, suggest that you stick with French and one other language for the time being. I am currently working on two languages right now, and in my view adding a third before I've reached the level where I want to be with either of them would really just be self-sabotage.

All the languages on my list are on there because I want to learn them. I learned French and a good deal of Dutch in the past because I wanted to. The languages I can share with my children are the ones I am passionate about. I'd never dare teach them Mandarin, Japanese or Tagalog. I have no interest in them. I am attempting to share my interests and transfer some knowledge to my children at the same time. It allows a shared interest to grow together instead of being isolated separately. My daughter doesn't complain when she watches Disney films in French, or when she speaks to me in French.

I am not suggesting they MUST learn all the languages I learn. I don't see anyone complaining about Professor Arguelles teaching his children languages. At least they are learning from me as opposed to in the schooling system that churns out a bunch of young adults in the end that think they can't learn languages because of poor methods in the education system. My children can do what they like with the languages as adults, but as they are young there's no harm in confering knowledge, sharing and learning together. I am not forcing them to sit CEFR exams, drilling them on verbs or asking for weekly essays. This is fun, this is why IF I introduce some Spanish some day (through stories, play etc) it will be because I've wanted to learn it to but also see the benefit in them knowing some.

[StringerBell]

I'm not suggesting that you are forcing them to do anything. Just that too much of a good thing can easily turn into a bad thing.

However, I don't know you or your kids, so if they are begging you to learn more languages, then I don't see a reason to hold back.

Having one or two additional languages to share and play around with is awesome. I really respect the way you've decided to raise your kids bilingually, and I don't want you to interpret my advice as an attack. You asked for opinions on your ideas and I honestly think that adding more languages before you are satisfied with your level in the two that you are currently working on is self-sabotage. Adding 2, 3, or 4 more languages with rigid schedules and desk time and courses can quickly turn from a fun idea into an obsession or an unspoken expectation. At the very least, it leaves much less room for other things like playing outside, doing sports, learning other useful life skills like cooking, or just having unstructured down time. I think you've mentioned in the past that you were not able to do the outdoors things you really loved to do because it was either that or focusing on French (it's possible that I'm remembering wrong and it was someone else).

You can disregard my advice if it's not applicable. I might be wrong, but I have a feeling that something I wrote I struck a nerve.

[PeterMollenburg]

I'm not suggesting that you are forcing them to do anything. Just that too much of a good thing can easily turn into a bad thing.

However, I don't know you or your kids, so if they are begging you to learn more languages, then I don't see a reason to hold back.

Having one or two additional languages to share and play around with is awesome. I really respect the way you've decided to raise your kids bilingually, and I don't want you to interpret my advice as an attack. You asked for opinions on your ideas and I honestly think that adding more languages before you are satisfied with your level in the two that you are currently working on is self-sabotage. Adding 2, 3, or 4 more languages with rigid schedules and desk time and courses can quickly turn from a fun idea into an obsession or an unspoken expectation. At the very least, it leaves much less room for other things like playing outside, doing sports, learning other useful life skills like cooking, or just having unstructured down time. I think you've mentioned in the past that you were not able to do the outdoors things you really loved to do because it was either that or focusing on French (it's possible that I'm remembering wrong and it was someone else).

You can disregard my advice if it's not applicable. I might be wrong, but I have a feeling that something I wrote I struck a nerve.

I appreciate your input StringerBell and your respectful comments. I did not perceive your comments as an attack, but I did feel the need to defend my ideas, my plans, my current actions as well in a manner that clarified my intentions.

I have decided on 2 languages for the moment, one which is already known beyond B2 by myself, the other which was previously at B1 (estimated). I don't think this is an over-stretch, and I'm reluctant also to add a third, for the reasons you point out. I have no intention of stretching out my language learning time, again for the reasons you point out, which I have also, as you mention, discussed in the past. This whole thread I felt was necessary because I do indeed realise what an undertaking learning 6 or 7 languages means, and yet as the thread title indicates, I don't want my daily (focused/dedicated) study time to extend beyond 3 hours. Stolen moments is different of course. I am hesitant to add Spanish and will only do so if I feel it is manageable. Throughout this thread I have been quite clear in indicating that attempting to learn all languages or close at once will likely lead to issues, which is why I concluded on 2 in the end. In fact I was leaning towards just doing French again, but my wife persuaded me to move on to Dutch as well. And in the end I think it's wise advice.

What you wrote to strike a nerve as I felt you had me wrong, still I didn't see it as an attack, but felt some defense was on order nevertheless. I appreciate your comments just as I do everyone else's who has replied here. It's been invaluable and sometimes the comments our ego's struggle with the most are those worth refecting on the most as it tells us something about ourselves and what we are clinging to (and for what reason).

Finally, and I dare say you realise this, I have been incredibly careful with the idea of adding even ONE more language beyond just French, so much so that I have studied French solely for 5 years, but I run the risk of doing that forever. So, this thread was a tentative call for advice on whether or not I should now try my hand at more languages, but just how many. I don't think it's impossible to learn multiple languages simultaneously, as Iguanamon proves, but I think the situations in which individuals can carry out such dedicated long-term projects are limited and the kinds of people that can carry them out, equally as rare. I do not think I am currently built for such a strategy as much as I threw the idea into the ring for judgement.

Thank you for comments StringerBell, I know that had only good intentions, despite my quick defensive reply.

[StringerBell]

Finally, and I dare say you realise this, I have been incredibly careful with the idea of adding even ONE more language beyond just French, so much so that I have studied French solely for 5 years, but I run the risk of doing that forever.

Yes, I definitely realize this. You are one of the most introspective people here; and I enjoy reading your posts immensely both because of your unwavering dedication to French and the way you think so deeply analyze various options.

I know that you have a very impressive level of French; but if you intend to use it in professional translation/interpretation work then there is probably still a lot more room to grow. In the sage words of my husband, "Translating is easy. Translating well is difficult." I think that interpreting is even harder, because you have to go between two languages in real time, without any time to decide how to best convey the meaning of what's being said, it has to be automatic.

When I first met my husband, his English was already excellent and I could converse with him as easily as with a native speaker, despite him not knowing certain words or expressions. However, it took him several years of living in the US where English was almost 100% of his waking day until he got to a point where he could real time interpret for a lengthy period of time and not feel like his brain was fried. To be fair, he was interpreting in both directions, but even in one direction it's really mentally taxing. My intention is not to suggest that your French isn't good, but that it's probably not yet where it needs to be for professional interpretation/translation. If that's really what your goal is, then I think it doesn't make sense to add a bunch of other languages that will compete for time and attention. So, it would probably be good to decide how determined you are to pursue the professional interpretation/translation idea, because that will determined how much - if any - development you'd still need in French.

I'm sure you've considered this already, but what about keeping French and Dutch and give one other language a much smaller time slot, like 10 minutes per day? Since you have a good foundation in French, I bet you would make impressive progress with another Romance language, like Spanish, even in such a short amount of time.

[PeterMollenburg]

Finally, and I dare say you realise this, I have been incredibly careful with the idea of adding even ONE more language beyond just French, so much so that I have studied French solely for 5 years, but I run the risk of doing that forever.

Yes, I definitely realize this. You are one of the most introspective people here; and I enjoy reading your posts immensely both because of your unwavering dedication to French and the way you think so deeply analyze various options.

Thanks StringerBell for your kind comments. It makes me consider something else.

Unfortunately along the way many people it seems became tired of my ‘analysis’ of off-topic non-language rants (not suggesting you do appreciate those rants, StringerBell) to the point they can’t be bothered or don’t want to risk commenting on my posts in case I go off track. It was never my intention to burn bridges with those people, and I remain highly respectful of their language learning accomplishments, despite apparently disrespecting them (that was not my intention) by not holding my tongue. I just do not like that humanity is being screwed over by an elite and feel that control of information, which extends to laws affecting how forums like this operate is part of the major problem. Furthermore, there it seems that my analysis has admittedly been poor on such theories because I only felt like going half way down the rabit hole. Too many other things are worth my time, like analysing which other languages to learn in future. I know you did not in any way ask me to comment on any of this, I have simply gotten off track.

I know that you have a very impressive level of French; but if you intend to use it in professional translation/interpretation work then there is probably still a lot more room to grow. In the sage words of my husband, "Translating is easy. Translating well is difficult." I think that interpreting is even harder, because you have to go between two languages in real time, without any time to decide how to best convey the meaning of what's being said, it has to be automatic.

When I first met my husband, his English was already excellent and I could converse with him as easily as with a native speaker, despite him not knowing certain words or expressions. However, it took him several years of living in the US where English was almost 100% of his waking day until he got to a point where he could real time interpret for a lengthy period of time and not feel like his brain was fried. To be fair, he was interpreting in both directions, but even in one direction it's really mentally taxing. My intention is not to suggest that your French isn't good, but that it's probably not yet where it needs to be for professional interpretation/translation. If that's really what your goal is, then I think it doesn't make sense to add a bunch of other languages that will compete for time and attention. So, it would probably be good to decide how determined you are to pursue the professional interpretation/translation idea, because that will determined how much - if any - development you'd still need in French.

This confirms what I feel, that I’m most definitely not in the position to be able to work as a translator and especially not an interpreter... yet. And ‘not yet’ may forever remain ‘not yet’ depending on how life unfolds.

I intend on nursing for a year in Belgium and were I to undertake the Masters in Translation and Interpreting I have my eye on, the 2nd year of the course takes place in Lyon. As per diplomatic red tape and/or the rules and regulations governing who can/cannot practise as a nurse in France, me being a non-EU educated nurse, I will be able to work as a nurse in France only after having already worked in another EU country (Belgium) as such. Basically France will not recognise my AU nursing credentials but is prepared to do so if another EU country will do so first. So, working for 12 months in Belgium will help me support my studying (while working as a nurse) in France as the second part of the Masters in Translating and Interpreting is undertaken. Working in the medical field will help my obvious choice for specialisation l- medical translation and/or interpreting. These experiences I hope will put me in a better, more realistic position to pursue Int. and Trans. work. I can only head in that direction and see if it works out.

I'm sure you've considered this already, but what about keeping French and Dutch and give one other language a much smaller time slot, like 10 minutes per day? Since you have a good foundation in French, I bet you would make impressive progress with another Romance language, like Spanish, even in such a short amount of time.

I felt 30 min was my minimum. If I don’t proceed with the 30 min idea, I might cycle my third language into the 6 week cycle in place of Dutch, but how long will I take to feel comfortable enough to put my Dutch into maintenance mode? Perhaps (too) many years? As I need to constantly work on my French if I I want to proceed with a masters in Trans and Int, which I do at this stage, then French must always be the language of focus every second 6 week block as per current chosen study plan.

[Lianne]

Your language plan sounds decent but if were you, I’d hold of on your Italian until 2021 at least. I know you said

assuming I've reached a sufficient level to do so, start learning Italian from French in 2020

, but reading your post recently about your French listening comprehension being limited to Peppa Pig, I’d be aiming for another solid year of French after this one.

I’m not saying your French level is crap, it’s not. You’re doing a great job of remaining consistent and progressing well, but it takes time to be able to comprehend much more complex audio as well as developing the other skills, more than many ppl care to acknowledge, so go a little bit longer is my opinion, before introducing Italian, regardless the base language. Still, some ppl do progress incredibly well in short time frames (Skynet, for eg).

Indeed I’ve considered learning other languages from a French base. I have many Dutch and some Arabic resources in French, but:

1. Advancing in a foreign language you’re not already advanced in by studying another language and using that first FL as a base isn’t a very efficient method to advance that base language. Better to just study that FL with more focused content that provides more bang for buck.

2. If you are advanced in your base (FL) when learning another language, then the above again is not efficient. If wanting to improve your advanced language, you’d be better off reading a book for native speakers or watching a series, for example.

3. There are many excellent resources for learning target language A available in language B, C and D. For example, I have too many decent Dutch resources from an English base to ignore them, but I’ve also a few good French based Dutch courses as well, which I’m keen to utilise. I concluded, use whatever suits ones needs in whichever language.

However, if you’ve not already collected many resources for learning Italian from an English base and can most defintely get all or most of what you require for your needs in learning Italian from a French base, then by all means, skip the English based resources, as it will be more time involved in the French language, which may not work miracles for your French but it will certainly help.

Ouch! I mean, you're right, there are big holes in my French right now. But there are also 8 months left in 2019. And in the last 3-4 months, I've made bigger strides in my French than I have in some years. I'm confident that I can make even bigger strides by the end of the year.

Also, surely auditory comprehension isn't the most important skill to have when using a language as a base? I can read French, which is much more important for this purpose. Obviously I do want to be able to understand spoken French, but given my difficulties understanding my native tongue (auditory processing difficulties), I'm not going to wait on that before doing anything else. And of course, when I pick up Italian, I won't be quitting French. I fully intend to reach C2+ in French.

The resources I'm planning to start out with for Italian are Duolingo (there's a French->Italian tree) and Assimil (my local library has Le nouvel italien sans peine). I think that's enough to get a good start with. I also have access to Italian books at the library, and whatever Italian movies/TV are on Netflix. The only English-base materials I currently have are a phrase book and a university textbook. (And I may still use those; I want to focus on the French base, but be open to English resources where beneficial.)

I'm especially excited to try out laddering with these languages in particular, ever since I learned that French and Italian have 89% lexical similarity. With practically every word being a cognate, and Italian pronunciation being easy peasy lemon squeezy, I think at least the early stages of learning Italian from French will be downright fun!

[IronMike]

My youngest will be graduating from our homeschool in less than one month, so my homeschool career is wrapping up. That is why I have decided to try learning an unreasonable number of languages - at least until I figure out my Next Big Adventure

That's a sad time, isn't it?!