What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

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IronMike
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby IronMike » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:11 pm

Dtmond, it might help if you tell us what your native language and what other languages you know are? Your question could be viewed two different ways: 1) A question from someone who doesn't know a "case language" and wants to study Slavic languages, who wants to know how to study cases, or 2) A question from someone whose native tongue is Slavic who doesn't understand how any of us who don't speak case languages can learn a case language. ;)
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby Daniel N. » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:46 am

Many languages have cases. Like Latin and Greek and others. As with everything, you should focus on the case most often used. It's the accusative case. Learn it, and you'll produce the most often used case forms most of the time, and you'll be understood.

Then, it depends on the language you study. Either dative, locative or genitive. Instrumental is less often used.

Unfortunately, cases are *not* by any means the hardest thing in Slavic languages. It's the verbs, knowing your perfective and imperfective verb for each meaning.

BTW Slavic languages actually have more than 3 genders, but Slavic grammars are often very traditional.

Also, read, read, with colored pens. Use one color to underline nouns, adjectives and pronouns in accusative, another in genitive, and so on.
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby IronMike » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:01 pm

Daniel N. wrote:Unfortunately, cases are *not* by any means the hardest thing in Slavic languages. It's the verbs, knowing your perfective and imperfective verb for each meaning.


Perfective vs. imperfective is no biggie. Motion verbs, however, yuck.

Daniel N. wrote:BTW Slavic languages actually have more than 3 genders, but Slavic grammars are often very traditional.

What Slavic language has more than 3 genders?
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby neofight78 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:48 am

IronMike wrote:Perfective vs. imperfective is no biggie. Motion verbs, however, yuck.


Can’t agree, verbs of motion are pretty easy in comparison. I would say that aspect is probably the hardest thing to get right. At least for English speakers. And I would guess that Arnaud would say it’s the same for French speakers.
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby Daniel N. » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:12 pm

IronMike wrote:Perfective vs. imperfective is no biggie. Motion verbs, however, yuck.

What Slavic language has more than 3 genders?


Motion verbs are complicated in Russian, but not in most other Slavic languages.

Almost all Slavic languages distunguish between masculine animate and inanimate. Some distinguish masculine personal and masculine non-personal in adjective forms (Polish). That's de facto more than 3 genders.

Perfective verbs are not hard as a concept. The hard thing is to remember verbs in pairs: for many meanings you have to remember impf. infinitive, impf. present, perf. infinitive and perf. present forms, if not more (depending on the language).
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby IronMike » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:20 pm

Daniel N. wrote:
IronMike wrote:Perfective vs. imperfective is no biggie. Motion verbs, however, yuck.

What Slavic language has more than 3 genders?


Motion verbs are complicated in Russian, but not in most other Slavic languages.

Almost all Slavic languages distunguish between masculine animate and inanimate. Some distinguish masculine personal and masculine non-personal in adjective forms (Polish). That's de facto more than 3 genders.

Perfective verbs are not hard as a concept. The hard thing is to remember verbs in pairs: for many meanings you have to remember impf. infinitive, impf. present, perf. infinitive and perf. present forms, if not more (depending on the language).


Technically, that's not more than 3 genders. Animate vs. inanimate isn't different genders.

I still remember the day I started Turbo-Serbo (16 week full-time conversion course into BCS from Russian) when one of the instructors walked in and made us all feel good. He was from Montenegro and had taught Russian and BCS at DLI in Monterey. He knew his audience: 10 students who were all 2 (B2) or above in Russian. He came in and told us we could all "walk" to New York, to the store, to a friend's house, to the coast, wherever. We were so happy. Then we learned about the enclitics in BCS...
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby Daniel N. » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:42 pm

Technically, there are different opinions out there. Traditional linguists stick to 3 genders. Some use the term 'sub-gender'. Genders don't have to be m/f/n. Many languages distinguish animate vs. inanimate as the only 2 genders. Many languages in North Caucasus have 4 genders. There are dialects in Italy that have 4 genders (there are superb descriptions of them, and how they have developed).

Technically, the most precise term is "agreement class", and nouns in e.g. BCMS have 7 agreeement classes regarding adjective forms, while Russian have 5 (sorry: 6) and German 4. This treats singular and plural forms separately.

edit: number of Russian classes :(
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby William Camden » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:27 pm

Kraut wrote:You might try interlinear/bi-directional translation for a while with content that you are familiar with in your mother tongue. Accompanied by audio.
This is a Lithuanian example of the interlinear method:
https://interlinearbooks.com/lithuanian/

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =17&t=6663


There is much to be said for the interlinear method, and yet today it is quite rare.
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby Dylan95 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:04 pm

I study Russian. I remember when I first began studying it the case system seemed impossible. But in reality, it's not that bad. You'll get used to it after a while. Complete a lot of exercises and write a lot. Build up the associations. Slowly it will start to feel more natural. Do not try to learn them all overnight. This kind of thing requires time and effort.

The case system is probably the main challenge of the beginner stage, but by the intermediate level, you'll start to realize the verbs of motion are much more of a challenge. It's not very hard to make yourself understood in Russian, but to speak Russian with a tight grasp of all of the tiny nuances and details is very difficult.
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Re: What is the general method people us to learn Slavic languages?

Postby Serpent » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:38 am

АмериканскийДурак wrote:to speak Russian with a tight grasp of all of the tiny nuances and details is very difficult.
This is true about any language :) If anything, if a language is similar to your L1 or strong L2, it may be harder to notice that you're missing out on details etc.
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