French C2 in one year

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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby leosmith » Sat May 14, 2022 5:58 am

STT44 wrote:Example of someone who started learning Japanese from zero and after 8 months passed the JLPT N1 with a perfect score: ... 85_months/

I studied Korean for, on the average, 7 hours per day for 1 year. At that pace, assuming I could keep it up, I estimate it would take me 2 years to accomplish what that person claims to have done in 6.5 hours per day for 8.5 months. All the other samples that STT44 posted seem, although difficult, plausible.
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby einzelne » Sat May 14, 2022 11:37 am

STT44 wrote:Example of someone who started learning Japanese from zero and after 8 months passed the JLPT N1 with a perfect score: ... 85_months/

You are aware that JLPT doesn't test your active skills, aren’t you?
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby Cavesa » Sun May 15, 2022 10:27 am

BeaP wrote:One thing that sometimes doesn't get addressed in these threads is whether or not it's possible to achieve C2 as a self-learner. My impression is that most people who take C2 have been (or are) in an immersion environment: they live in a country where the language is spoken or study philology/teaching at a university. Those who teach themselves to C2 level are extremely rare. (If you take 1-2 Skype lessons a week, you basically teach yourself.) It's much harder to do it alone, and it's almost impossible for someone who is not really interested in languages.

My point is: if you want to reach C2 alone in any time frame, you have to be an experienced, disciplined and hard-working learner. If you want to pass a C2 exam, you also have to do a lot of research. Asking questions on forums is helpful, but it's just the beginning. In a lot of cases this whole thing is not even serious. I think that's what some members want to emphasise. If you're serious about an exam, you familiarise yourself with its structure and ask focused questions about specific things. People seem to be toying with the idea, I wonder how many of them actually sit the exam.

I was happy that zenmonkey pointed to the elephant in the room. It might seem unimportant, but I think it's one of the most basic things. This is not a goal that is achieved as a hobby for most people. You have to be serious about it, you have to put a lot of work into it, and there are no short-cuts. You have to appreciate the help that you get and you have to think about your own takeaway, you have to reflect on things. You need every piece of information, and you need them processed through your own filter. Liking the idea or wanting a certificate that decorates a CV is not enough. You have to be serious about it, you have to be active. C2 knowledge for me is equivalent with a university degree. Cramming data, doing research, making experiments, drawing conclusions, putting them into practice. It requires an academic mindset.

Actually, I got to C2 French mostly by accident and having fun. Nope, I wasn't living in a francophone country. Nor studying it (in it) at university (my Erasmus was after C2 DALF, not before).

You need to be interested yes. But that's nothing wrong. It's not achieved by most hobby learners, that is true. But that's not because of the goal, it's because they are not really trying and there is nothing wrong about that. If we looked only at people seriously trying to do this, I don't think the ratio of successful ones would be that bad.

C2 might be an equivalent of an easy university degree. (In medschool, I'd say it was equivalent of one of the harder exams.) And since everyone and their cat is getting an easy university degree these days, why should C2 be such an exceptional goal? :-D

My main worry concerning the topic discussed in this thread: Within 1 year.

Yes, I got from DELF B2 to DALF C2 in several years. Five years, out of which the first two were basically French-less. Then the next three years included mostly tons of fun with books and tv series. Hundreds of hours. Any specific studying was at the end (including the bit controversial tutoring) and was at most 1% of the time spent on my path from B2 to C2. Oh, and the C2 was a sort of an accident. When I decided to take an exam, I was aiming for C1, but I was told by others including the tutor "but you're C2, why don't you try that?" And so I did.

So, the main issue I see here is not any definition of C2 (it is what it is, hard but not perfection), nor is it self teaching. The issues are:

1.what is the starting point? Where does the learner stand at the beginning of the intensive year? If it is somewhere in between B2 and C1, I think it is possible to study harder than I did (and not as haphazardly) and reach C2 in a year. If it is a rusty B2, closer to B1 or even lower, then I am not that much of an optimist. Any huge gap from the earlier levels will be a problem now, and should be corrected.

2.How much free time does the learner have and is willing to put in? This project would require several hours a day. That's far from impossible, it just depends on your other obligations and needs. A part of the time will need to be put into energy demanding activities, but most of it will be input. For input to work, you need a lot of it. But it is fun and not that demanding in terms of energy.

3.The will to push oneself hard. Much harder than 99,9% of tutors would be capable of (I'd say hiring a tutor is in most cases the first step towards failure of an intensive plan. Vast majority simply has no clue about advanced learners, and has 0 experience with intensive learning, as they have never done it themselves, nor have they taught in such a manner. If you hire someone to profit from some of their knowledge, you need to really teach them what you need, it is sometimes a kind of a battle and not every tutor is accessible to that). Need to find high quality resources and really use them. Tons of input, sure. But also focus on writing, as that's the hardest part of DALF C2. I discussed that elsewhere.
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby MaggieMae » Sun May 15, 2022 11:08 am

Le Baron wrote:These things help no-one. They should be prefaced with:
Step one: Give up most other things in your life, because you'll be largely spending it on language learning, day-in, day-out. And depending on how good, organised. focused and motivated you are, this might be a grind until you crash.

This, 100%. And even then it's often not enough. I made it from middle A2 to failing C1 by 2 points in one year by treating it as my full time job (4 hours of language courses a day, then homework and studying afterwards) and being in a country where I was almost 100% immersed. Now I'm looking ahead at the C2 exam and maybe, MAYBE, I'll be able to just pass the exam by the end of the year.

But, as many others have already said, passing the exam is not the same as being fluent. I think in one of those reddit comment threads someone mentioned having C2 certification, but not knowing the words for "booger" or "glitter", which is something most every native 3 year old will know. I have trouble remembering how to say such basic things as, "The dog pooped/peed," without using the closest word I know, which happens to be an extremely offensive word here. Every native toddler can say it, though, with two or three different variations, most likely.

I was also talking with other US emigrants here yesterday about all the colloquial phrases that are untranslateable between the two languages, but you'll never find in a language course. "Slicker than shit" is the only one that comes to my mind at the moment, but it means (loosely, and depending on context) that someone is really good or efficient (or both) at doing something, that someone has just very cleverly tricked someone else, and the speaker wants to show their admiration, or it could mean, fairly literally, that something is extremely slippery and one should exercise caution. Like, you'll NEVER find that on a C2 test or in a language course, but it's something that someone with actual fluency will be able to instinctively understand in all the various forms.
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