Please help me read short fragment of a French document

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Re: Please help me read short fragment of a French document

Postby guyome » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:41 am

I put my readings directly in the quotes in bold (some small modifications are not bolded), I hope this helps!
Les mitrailleurs de cavalerie, et l'auto mitrailleuse ouvrent le feu sur la queue d'un convoi à l'Est d'Hartennes
It means that their convoy was shot at by cavalry machineguns and armored car east of Hartennes?
No, it means that they (the gunmen and the armored car) opened fire/started firing at the tail of a convoy east of Hartennes.

Vers 9h les Btns sont embarqués en autobus et suivent l'itinéraire Hartennes - Cramaille - Maroeul en Dole -Chery- Chaque Bataillon est affecté à une Division de Cavalerie
I think that the word I couldn't read didn't hinder understanding of the fragment:
"About 9am, the battalions are embarked on autobuses and follow the route [names of the Places] Each battalion is attached to one cavalry division"

I don't know if "follow the route" is a perfect translation for "suivre l'itinéraire" but I guess it gets the meaning across.
"Maroeul-en-Dôle" appears as "Mareuil-en-Dôle" on maps today. I don't know if this is bacause the spelling was different back then (pronunciation would be the same) or because the writer made a mistake.
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Re: Please help me read short fragment of a French document

Postby cjareck » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:48 am

guyome wrote:I put my readings directly in the quotes in bold (some small modifications are not bolded), I hope this helps!

Yes, it helped very much! Thank you again!

No, it means that they (the gunmen and the armored car) opened fire/started firing at the tail of a convoy east of Hartennes.

That's important. It seems that the French had some armored cars in the area.

I don't know if this is bacause the spelling was different back then (pronunciation would be the same) or because the writer made a mistake.

Perhaps he wrote it from listening, and that is why he made a mistake. I deal quite a lot with such materials, and worst are Russian battle journals written using Austro-Hungarian maps of Galicia. Polish Names are deformed by placing it on a map and then deformed once more to suit the Russian alphabet. Sometimes it is real riddle ;)
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Re: Please help me read short fragment of a French document

Postby guyome » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:19 pm

cjareck wrote:That's important. It seems that the French had some armored cars in the area.
Nice! Of course, my translation of "automitrailleuse" by "armored car" may be wrong. I don't have the knowledge needed for an accurate translation of 1910s military equipment :)

Perhaps he wrote it from listening, and that is why he made a mistake. I deal quite a lot with such materials, and worst are Russian battle journals written using Austro-Hungarian maps of Galicia. Polish Names are deformed by placing it on a map and then deformed once more to suit the Russian alphabet. Sometimes it is real riddle ;)
Yes, that could very well be the case. I encountered it many times when reading Yiddish letters: the identification of Polish/Russian/etc place names in Yiddish can be quite challenging.
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Re: Please help me read short fragment of a French document

Postby cjareck » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:05 pm

guyome wrote:
cjareck wrote:That's important. It seems that the French had some armored cars in the area.
Nice! Of course, my translation of "automitrailleuse" by "armored car" may be wrong

I don't think so. Even French Wikipedia knows that term: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automitrailleuse and as a name of the vehicle from the period: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automitra ... %A8le_1906

Yes, that could very well be the case. I encountered it many times when reading Yiddish letters: the identification of Polish/Russian/etc place names in Yiddish can be quite challenging.

If you need any help in that, just let me know. I know Polish names and can read Hebrew alphabet so more or less I can imagine what it should sound like.
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Re: Please help me read short fragment of a French document

Postby guyome » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:28 am

cjareck wrote:If you need any help in that, just let me know. I know Polish names and can read Hebrew alphabet so more or less I can imagine what it should sound like.
Will do, thanks!
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Re: Please help me read short fragment of a French document

Postby cjareck » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:46 pm

Speakeasy wrote:Mon cher cjareck,
As a fellow (amateur) military historian and Francophile, might suggest that you acquire a copy of the “Cortina French English Military Manual” which I reviewed briefly under the Cortina Languages thread below? Not only might it help you resolve some of your questions, it would also expand your First World War French and English vocabulary.

I don't know how I missed your post! Sorry for the delayed reply! I found the book on Archive org:
Special edition:
https://archive.org/details/cortinafren ... 7/mode/2up
Second edition:
https://archive.org/details/cortinafren ... 7/mode/2up

I have old military dictionaries for French - Polish (tactical dictionary) and Geman, Russian, French - Polish. And a modern one (well, probably some 30 years old so not so much modern) - Two thick volumes French - Polish. But never too many such thinks especially if you can put them on harddrive were space is almost unlimited not like on the shelves ;)

What concerns English vocabulary - two years ago, I struggled for the English term for German "Einschiessen" and my co-author, who has PhD in English philology, found that it is "register fire". And he found it in some old military dictionary, as far as I remember
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Re: Please help me read short fragment of a French document

Postby cjareck » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:40 am

45ID-9wrzesnia.png
45ID-9wrzesnia.png (300.5 KiB) Viewed 71 times

This time I can't read it as a whole but I understand (also from a book fragment) that the 42nd Infantry Division was to be released from the front by the 10th Corps. But what after? I would be grateful for transcribing it to me.
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Re: Please help me read short fragment of a French document

Postby guyome » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:39 pm

La 9° armée prescrit que le 9 septembre la 42° Division
sera relevée dans ses attaques et particulièrement sur la
route de Soizy aux Bois à Baye par le 10° Corps -
Il devra venir se former en réserve d'armée de Linthes
à Pleurs en prévenant de son mouvement la division
marocaine -
I'm not too familiar with military vocabulary so the following translation could probably be improved:
The 9th Army requires that on September 9th the 42nd Division will be relieved in its attacks, especially on the road to Soizy aux Bois in Baye by the 10th Corps. It [=the 10th Corps] shall come and form an army reserve from Linthes to Pleurs, while informing the Morrocan division of its movement
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Re: Please help me read short fragment of a French document

Postby cjareck » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:05 pm

Merci beaucoup!
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