Allow newbies to fill out their entire profile

[Allison]

Could we be allowed to fill out our profiles, including languages, location, from the very beginning? I spent a long time clicking on every single part of my profile/settings multiple times, looked through the FAQ, and finally searched for several different combinations of search terms trying to find out what I was doing wrong before I finally found a post that explained that users are only allowed to fill that out after they've posted three times. I know that new users aren't allowed to send PMs, but I'm not as bothered by that because (1) I'm new, who am I sending PMs to? and (2) that makes more sense as an anti-spam measure. I understand less how restricting the profile information can act as an anti-spam measure. And because there's not an obvious reason why that would be restricted, it seems unnecessarily unwelcoming. Also, while not everyone would fill it out right away, I imagine that for those that would, it would be helpful for the community to have some kind of context for the user's first few posts, before you get to know these facts about a user organically.

As an alternative, if my suggestion isn't implemented, could the fact that this opportunity is only available after three posts be posted somewhere more prominently so that others could avoid the wasted time I spent trying to figure out where to fill all this out?

[crush]

Heh, i guess i'm not the only one. I also clicked through all the settings in the profile several times looking where to add that information. Eventually i found it, but i wasn't sure if it was restricted to users with a certain amount of posts, active a certain number of days, or if i'd just missed it the first (and second and third) time around.

[Zireael]

Spammers would fill the profile with spam links, that is why newbies are not allowed to fill out more.

Although I agree this should be in the FAQ.

[crush]

Can't you simply not allow links in the language section? What do you need links there for anyway?

[Nandemonai]

I've experienced the same problem. I spent a long time looking for it when I just came over from the old HTLAL forum and registered here. Maybe a small message on the profile page could inform new users that they need at least three posts before they can edit their language profile?

[emk]

I agree that we should try to add some kind of note to the profile screen explaining why certain profile fields aren't available right after signing up.

For those who would like to know why this stuff is awkward, the three big issues are:

1. We have a spammer problem, and the moderators already spend a fair bit of time identify fake users who are only here to spam—they often look like regular users, but if you look at their posting history, every single post they make will actually promote some specific language school. We don't want language learners to have to sort out which advice is real, and which advice is really just an advertisement. Unfortunately, winning the battle against spam requires a number of painful compromises that occasionally effect the experience of brand new users. But we simply will not accept spam on the forum.
2. The phpBB software has certain limits. For example, we wish we had more control over the phpBB profile fields, but the system is less flexible than we'd like.
3. We have a policy against making arbitrary patches to customize the phpBB software. Once upon a time, HTLAL made many such patches to their forum software, and as a result, it became incredibly difficult to update to newer versions of the forum software. This is why HTLAL is still running forum software from 2007 or so. As a result of this experience, we almost always limit our forum customizations to phpBB 3.1 "extensions", which use a well-defined plugin system to add new features in a way that doesn't make future upgrades awful. But extensions can't customize everything; only certain things.

Anyway, I've filed an issue about trying to add a note to the profile screen explaining why certain fields are missing. We'll try to work on that the next time we get a chance.

[Allison]

Anyway, I've filed an issue about trying to add a note to the profile screen explaining why certain fields are missing. We'll try to work on that the next time we get a chance.

Thanks so much! That would certainly be a big help. And thank you for the explanation as well.

[tomgosse]

I agree that we should try to add some kind of note to the profile screen explaining why certain profile fields aren't available right after signing up.

For those who would like to know why this stuff is awkward, the three big issues are:

1. We have a spammer problem, and the moderators already spend a fair bit of time identify fake users who are only here to spam—they often look like regular users, but if you look at their posting history, every single post they make will actually promote some specific language school. We don't want language learners to have to sort out which advice is real, and which advice is really just an advertisement. Unfortunately, winning the battle against spam requires a number of painful compromises that occasionally effect the experience of brand new users. But we simply will not accept spam on the forum.
2. The phpBB software has certain limits. For example, we wish we had more control over the phpBB profile fields, but the system is less flexible than we'd like.
3. We have a policy against making arbitrary patches to customize the phpBB software. Once upon a time, HTLAL made many such patches to their forum software, and as a result, it became incredibly difficult to update to newer versions of the forum software. This is why HTLAL is still running forum software from 2007 or so. As a result of this experience, we almost always limit our forum customizations to phpBB 3.1 "extensions", which use a well-defined plugin system to add new features in a way that doesn't make future upgrades awful. But extensions can't customize everything; only certain things.

Anyway, I've filed an issue about trying to add a note to the profile screen explaining why certain fields are missing. We'll try to work on that the next time we get a chance.

Thank you, rdearman, and all the moderators for the effort you put in to keep this forum running!

[aliciaftw]

I just spent awhile trying to figure out how to add to my profile as well. Having to wait isn't a big deal, it's just my normal reaction when joining an online forum is, "Okay, I need to go fill at my profile (as a way of introduction) before I participate." Just mentioning that we need to wait in the FAQ would be great. I checked there initially to see if I was limited.

[rdearman]

I just spent awhile trying to figure out how to add to my profile as well. Having to wait isn't a big deal, it's just my normal reaction when joining an online forum is, "Okay, I need to go fill at my profile (as a way of introduction) before I participate." Just mentioning that we need to wait in the FAQ would be great. I checked there initially to see if I was limited.

Hummm.... it is the first question I think, perhaps I should separate the PM & Profile into two questions.