General language log

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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:48 am

I’m finding it hard to get motivated to read. I think I need to change my approach. I usually highlight anything I have trouble with to reread it. Right now I find rereading books pretty tedious unless it’s because I’m having a hard time understanding a chapter and I want to go back and understand it better. To me it’s challenging to do that because I’m working with ebooks. My reading level has improved, but I’m still not reading as much as I want to.

One thing that bothers me is that a lot of articles online are still above my level. I just find it hard to read them in one sitting. I’m glad I can usually read one chapter from a book in one sitting. My issue with the book I’m reading right now is that I’m just not excited to read it. When I do sit down and read it I can usually stick with it and it isn’t too bad. Maybe the book will get better as I read more. So I just haven’t been getting much reading done.

I’ve been watching more TV again. I’ve been sort of putting TV on pause for several months. I just couldn’t find anything that interested me. I was mainly going for teen shows since it’s easier on my attention span. I had luck with a few teen shows, but other than that I don’t enjoy them enough to really stick with them. So I just practiced other things. It seems like my attention span has really improved so now I can enjoy a lot more TV shows. For me it’s hard to know if it’s because of an improvement in reading or listening. Based on what I’ve learned from my TV watching, once my reading gets to a certain level I’ll be able to just read more without trying too much.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:01 am

I’ve been thinking about how this year went. My goal for reading was to be on my way to enjoy literature and Biblical Hebrew. I’ve definitely improved my reading level. Last year I was practically illiterate. Right now I’m not. I can’t read to relax yet, but reading is now a reasonable language learning activity. I knew my goals for reading were pretty vague and long-term. I’ve finished five books so far. I’ve started a few more than that.

The books I finished were mostly middle grade novels and one easier young adult novel. The ones I didn’t finish were non-fiction aimed at adults. When I look at the percentage of words I know, it’s clear that the amount of words I know isn’t exactly the issue. Even though I actually know more words from the non-fiction books, I still find the fiction books easier.

I think my reading goals for next year will be more concrete. One thing I want to be able to do is to be able to read most articles I find online in one sitting. Right now it’s pretty frustrating that I can’t. Since I can’t, I just find it easier to read books. Another goal I have is to read more than I spend time doing vocabulary study. Right now it’s about half and half with slightly more reading. Another thing I hope is that I’ll be able to find books that are compelling.

I’m kind of having a hard time thinking of goals for listening. It would be nice to be advanced or native-like level, but I doubt I can get there in a year. I struggle to think of some steps that are in between my current level and whatever that level is. Maybe I will be able to get to an advanced level by next year. Getting lot’s of listening in does come naturally to me. I also find that these days reading ends up strengthening my listening comprehension.

I still don’t know what level I’ll move onto another language. This is what I’m sort of struggling with. Maybe it will work itself out. Last year at around this time of year I tried to study a bit of Icelandic. I enjoyed it and I was often motivated to spend 30 minutes to an hour on it. I was a bit too motivated for my liking. Another thing that made it challenging is that it was trying to take over my brain.

Hebrew does as well. I didn’t really notice how much it did until I tried Icelandic. It’s just really awkward when two languages try to fight for space. I have to say that Hebrew probably takes up even more room right now. For now I can say that I’m not comfortable with the idea of starting Icelandic even though there’s moments that I want to. I just don’t know if I ever will be.

If I had to guess I’ll probably be more comfortable starting Icelandic when I’ve cut down a lot on anki and memorization and I’ve stopped making obvious improvements. There’s obviously no real end point, so this is pretty challenging. I thought I was sort of ready a year ago. I clearly wasn’t. Since this is so subjective and individual that makes it even harder to know. I’m already noticing some signs of that endpoint. An example would be how I no longer find truly unknown words very often. I think next year I’ll think about how ready I feel for another language.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:50 am

I’ve been thinking of my more lofty and vague goals. One of them way to understand more archaic and literary language. I’ve definitely noticed improvements in understanding religious language. When it comes to understanding things like poetry or literature there’s still a lot of question marks. I still don’t know why I’m drawn towards it for Hebrew since I don’t care for it in English. I loved reading as a kid, but I sadly haven’t kept up that habit. Right now I’m focusing more on my general reading ability and getting into the habit of reading any books. I’ll revisit literature or poetry when my reading level is higher.

I think I’ve made progress towards understanding a wider variety of language just by reading monolingual dictionary definitions to unknown words I encounter. A lot of the language was completely different to what I was used to. It was fairly incomprehensible as well. What made it manageable was seeing the English definitions and the fact that they’re very short. Seeing the English definitions helped me fill in the blanks a lot. To make this a regular thing I added those definitions to my anki deck. I often find a lot of dictionary definitions are easier to understand a few months later.

I think reading all those dictionary definitions helped me out with reading non-fiction. I still find a lot of non-fiction a bit long for me, so I still haven’t finished any non-fiction book. I think reading those dictionary definitions also helped me understand religious language more. I was recently able to watch a Hanukkah event and I could understand what was going on and be in the moment. I don’t think I had perfect comprehension, but it was definitely more comprehensible than the few times I went to church as a kid. It’s nice when it feels like Hebrew serves a higher purpose because it often doesn’t feel like it.

In order to be practical a lot of the things I do in Hebrew aren’t necessarily unique to Hebrew. A lot of times I just watch lifestyle videos on YouTube which are easy to understand and entertaining enough. It seems like these lifestyle videos are available in a really large range of languages. I highly recommend those videos for language learning if you remotely enjoy those videos. The downside of those videos is that they’re pretty shallow, so I can only watch them an hour a day at most.

I kind of try to watch the same sorts of videos I’d watch in English, but it’s pretty hard to find them. I can’t find any commentary channels in Hebrew that I enjoy enough to consistently watch. They either don’t exist, are too hard for me to understand or I just haven’t found them yet. Some videos I have better luck with are the city planning/architecture videos. There definitely isn’t as many of them, but I often see them pop up. They are very information dense videos sometimes, so it often feels like my level has gotten worse when I watch them. They often seem “boring”, but since I keep enjoying those videos in English I keep an eye out for those videos. I watch them when I’m in the mood for intense reading/listening. When I’m in the mood to relax I’ll just watch those videos in English.

I find when I watch videos or read books on familiar topics I find I get little glimpses of Israeli culture here and there. I’m strangely uninterested in a lot of things about Israel the country. I find that if I consume content that’s too “Israeli” too many things just go over my head even if the language isn’t too hard for me. I’m not too keen on reading specifically about Zionism, but since I’m into psychology it’s pretty interesting to read about the psychological motivations for Zionism. Same thing with anything related to politics.

One thing I sadly still have to compromise on is reading. Right now I read a lot of books purely to improve my reading ability in Hebrew. A lot of the time it ends up being middle grade novels that seem engaging. A lot of the times those books will originally be in English. Sometimes I’ll genuinely end up enjoying them. The main advantage of those books is that I’ve completed several of them, so I feel a sense of accomplishment by reading them. They’re still definitely a means to an end.

I think next year I’ll start rereading some of my favorite YA novels in Hebrew. Even though my familiarity with them can help make them comprehensible, they're still fairly slow and clunky for me to read. If books feel like a means to an end I want to be able to finish them in a reasonable amount of time. I’ll probably have to read a few more middle grade novels before I can comfortably read YA novels.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:25 am

One thing I’m surprised about is the mismatch between what I find easier in English and what I find easier in my target language. Language level not corresponding to age has been discussed a lot. Another thing I notice is that a lot of books I find are easier than a lot of the articles I find. In English I prefer reading articles over reading books. Books kind of just feel like too much commitment and take too long. In Hebrew I prefer books because they’re often easier and more interesting. I still read some articles when I want to shake things up, but I don’t think they’ll be the main thing I read for a while.

I’m starting to do better at non-fiction now. I found a book on a very familiar topic and now I’m getting more stamina for reading non-fiction books. Even on less familiar topics. What I find is that it’s often hard to know the difference between finding a topic boring or just being unfamiliar with it. I’m finding more Israeli fiction books that seem interesting, but it’s still debatable whether they’re close enough to my level. Obviously books aimed at adults will be more interesting, but I’m not sure it will be too easy to find adult fiction books that are my level.

One thing I like about non-fiction is that it’s kind of easier to re-read. It often seems more interesting when I’m re-reading it. To not run out of vocabulary I try to reread one chapter or at least look up one chapter worth of words every study session. I’m starting to enjoy reading more, but I still need a sense of progress. I think I’m doing a decent job of weaning off of Anki.

I find as I reread more books, the new words I learn become more satisfying. It’s particularly satisfying when I learn collocations. I find those are easier to miss than fully unknown words. When I learn some of them I’ll suddenly see them everywhere. I end up learning collocations when sentences don’t make sense to me. I often don’t know why sentences don’t make sense when I first read them. I sometimes even get it a bit wrong. That’s when I end up learning different meanings of a word better. That’s why I look up every word I’m not 100% of when I reread.

I’m also noticing that I’m picking up on more details when I listen to podcasts. I could understand podcasts a year ago, but I often didn’t pick up on a lot of details. That made a lot of podcasts come across as generic and shallow. I still kept listening because they were good practice. This is why I try not to judge how much I enjoy something or even think too much about fun. I honestly just try to find things I don’t hate and give me a sense of progress. If I have fun, great. I just don’t count on it.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:51 am

I haven’t been doing a great job in tracking my hours. I didn’t end up tracking any hours during my three day vacation even though I definitely studied. Most of my studying was reading and tracking reading is pretty hard for me. I also listened to a few podcasts. Tracking podcasts is also pretty hard for me because I’ll often stop and start randomly and my podcast apps all seem to crash. I kind of knew tracking time would be hard, but I need something to sort of help me get over my anki addiction.

I think when doing everything I want to do in my target language is easy or easy enough, I’ll stop tracking time and stop Anki. Since speaking isn’t really a goal for me it’s a bit more challenging for me to find a good “endpoint.”

I think I’m doing better at picking out books. I recently found a book that was originally in Hebrew, aimed at adults, an interesting topic AND it seemed to be my level. Most reviews said they read the book super quickly and it was exciting. Some of the negative criticism I read about the book was that the prose lacked substance. That’s actually a good thing for me.

If all books I’m considering are interesting to me and close to my level I will prioritize books that are aimed at adults and originally written in Hebrew. What I’ve found is that I really don’t seem to like middle grade novels originally written in Hebrew. Young adult doesn’t seem great either. Books aimed at adults seem more interesting, but they’re also less likely to be my level. I’ve definitely found middle grade novels originally in English helpful for improving at reading.

Like I said before reading in Hebrew has also improved my reading in English. Mainly things like stamina. I don’t exactly count on it, but maybe reading more in Hebrew will help me read more books in English as well. As I’m finding more books in Hebrew I’m getting a better idea of what books I like reading in general.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:57 am

As the weather is getting colder and the days are pretty short I’m starting to feel like studying Icelandic again. I still don’t think it’s the best idea. Right now when I really feel like studying Icelandic I just watch Scandinavian shows with English subtitles. I often end up recognizing a lot of words and it kind of satisfies me. It doesn’t seem like Nordic languages in general really mess with me. Just Icelandic. I think it’s more OCD than anything else.

One issue is that Icelandic is in the honeymoon phase even though I can see plenty of issues with it at the same time. I had to quit because I just didn’t feel like I was making enough progress. I’ll see some newspaper article and think it’s a shame I can’t read it since it must be sooooo fascinating. Or I’ll struggle to understand some Israeli humor and think I’ll be waaaaay better at understanding Nordic humor. I also feel like I’m seeing Iceland everywhere lately, so that doesn’t help too much either.

I like to plan what I’ll do once I decide to start studying Icelandic again. The first thing I’m going to do is try to get awesome TTS working. I know there’s some text to speech for Icelandic since one Anki deck I have uses it. The main reason I want to is because I want to start making my own Anki cards early on. Maybe I’ll get some program that can efficiently download audio as well. When I’m starting out I’ll make sure to avoid reading anything that doesn’t have audio. Since Icelandic uses the Latin alphabet I just find it way too easy to mispronounce words in my head and understand them at the same time. If I still really feel like studying Icelandic tomorrow I’ll try to get awesome TTS and maybe try out other Anki extensions.

The reason I plan to start making my own Anki cards early on is because I often remember doing a lot of intensive reading and sort of wasting it. Since it was so intensive I might as well have been making Anki cards as well. It also would have speeded up my progress a lot. Another reason is because IcelandicOnline just moves so quickly. It doesn’t take too long for it to get too hard for me. It’s just so dense in vocabulary.

Since IcelandicOnline course are so dense, I don’t know how often I’ll do them. I probably won’t do them every day, but I still want to do them consistently. Maybe I’ll do them on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Part of the issue I’d have with studying Icelandic right now is that I just find it so hard to be consistent with something if it’s not every day.

Another thing I’ll do is start listening sooner. Subs2srs is great for for sharpening my ear, but at the same time it doesn’t really practice all aspects of listening comprehension. What I’ll probably do is re-listen to audio on IcelandicOnline that I studied before. So maybe on Tuesday, Thursday and the weekend. Once I feel ready or maybe a bit before I’ll start listening to easier podcasts.

I think I’ve gotten better at finding easier podcasts. What makes podcasts harder to find is that the most popular podcasts also end up being the hardest for learners. Some categories of podcasts I find harder are late night shows, the news if it covers multiple stories, comedy, true crime and anything narrative. The easiest category is self help since it’s so generic, so it’s easy to fill in the blanks. The topic also changes less often.

I’m guessing I’ll get started on Icelandic when I’m already established in learning programming or something else that’s more career oriented or practical. I just don’t want it to be too much of a focus in my life because I know it’s not a practical language. Hebrew isn’t practical for me either, but I let it slide because it’s a good way of avoiding OCD.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:16 am

Today I tested out some TTS voices for Icelandic. Google translate seemed to kind of work, but I might get some better voices either through a free trial or subscription. I don’t want to start any free trials because I won’t start until at least next year. I still don’t know when it will be a good time. I’ve never taught myself a language without quitting before. I think the reason I want to learn Icelandic is because I had to quit because I was demotivated. Doing better at language learning got me un-demotivated.

Right now I’ve been trying to reconnect with the original reason I wanted to learn Hebrew. The original reason was because I heard I possibly had Jewish heritage on my dad’s side. I also kind of liked some Jewish culture. Those two things got me interested. I still didn’t decide on a language back then. I eventually picked Modern Hebrew since it’s the most convenient Jewish language to learn. I did know before hand that Israeli culture was kind of distinct from the Jewish culture I was sort of familiar with. I recently found out I also have Jewish ancestry on my mom’s side. I guess this sort of makes learning Hebrew feel more justified. For now I’ve accepted I don’t feel like I connect with Israeli culture. There’s certain aspects I’ve grown to like, but many things I don’t get.

The second reason I learned it was to learn about the progress of language learning in general. At first I really had to focus on this because I can’t really do much when I’m starting out. I kind of had to put all the focus on the process of language learning. A lot of the methods I tried for Hebrew weren’t necessarily lined up with the goals for learning Hebrew since I was learning more about language learning in general. I was just using Hebrew to test out different methods. This sort of does give me tunnel vision and makes me forget about the original reason. I’ve just been trying to get more in touch with the original reason. Maybe that will inform me better when I’m ready to start another language.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:05 am

I’ve been thinking about the ideal balance between reading and listening. When I first started Icelandic I think I did too much reading compared to listening. I still did some listening since the online course I took actually did include audio for everything. Since it’s written in a Latin alphabet it was way too easy to just read a word, invent a pronunciation for it, understand what you’re reading and be satisfied. I ended up finding listening very hard and reading was unpleasant.

When I started Hebrew it was very easy to avoid doing too much reading. Reading is relatively hard. Not just how words are pronounced, but the meaning of words as well. Since I was doing subs2srs I didn’t struggle too much with listening. At least at first. For the last year or so I’ve been working a lot on my reading. It still can feel like more work than listening, but it’s not way below my listening comprehension like it used to be. One thing reading helps me practice better than listening is comprehending a lot of information in a short amount of time. I often felt like TV shows moved too quickly, while podcasts didn’t. Even if podcasts had fast or unclear speakers. I find that with more reading I’m picking up on more details when I listen to podcasts, so I know it’s not just an improvement in reading ability.

At the moment I sort of have a plan to try to make Icelandic feel more balanced when I start again. When I’m first starting out I’ll make sure to avoid reading text without audio to it. I can do this by using subs2srs, a premade anki deck and IcelandicOnline which uses audio. One issue I have is that IcelandicOnline is very vocabulary dense. So I often forget vocabulary and a lot of concepts. I’ve never actually explicitly studied grammar concepts on anki before. I’m not sure where to start or if I’ll even start to begin with. To avoid making up pronunciations in my head I’ll make Anki cards with text to speech or maybe even get audio directly from IcelandicOnline if it isn’t too hard.

I think I’ll try to make an anki deck early on because I’ve learned not to waste super intensive reading. I’m still unsure about when I even want to start. The issue I had last time is I just couldn’t dedicate enough time to each language. I still feel like that could happen. I’m guessing I’ll start when I no longer feel like focused and conscious study helps me improve. While I’m noticing the amount of unknown Hebrew words are dropping a lot, I still find intensive reading and occasionally insensitive listening helpfully.

I’m guessing I’ll need audio on anki cards for about a year. I’m guessing I’ll progress roughly at the same speed as Hebrew. Obviously the reading is easier, but maybe when I average everything out it will be about the same. One thing I expect is that when I start studying Icelandic I’ll probably be more busy with work. At the same time I’ll have more experience with language learning and time management. I don’t know how passionate I’ll be. Maybe I’ll be more passionate, maybe a bit less. Probably about equal, but in different ways.

One thing I noticed is that Icelandic sentences just seemed more complicated to me. At the same time I wasn’t getting the most fair sample. A lot of the Icelandic I encountered was from newspaper articles I couldn’t get through and a fairly difficult online course. When I first started Hebrew I was on duolingo. The sentences were extremely simple. I was comparing those sentences to newspapers and that’s not really a fair comparison. I still struggle to read Hebrew newspaper articles. I can understand them if I really concentrate, but there’s no way I can read on in all one sitting. On the other hand I could read articles in Swedish, Danish and Norwegian with a dictionary and understand it fairly easily. Probably because the sentence structure is so similar to English.

One thing some people might underestimate is how much of a head start the Germanic vocabulary in Icelandic gave me. While it doesn’t make it easier than French, it definitely made it easier than Hebrew for a while. Someone said it’s only a 300 word head start, but those 300ish words are very high frequency. It doesn’t make it mutually comprehensible, but I do find it easy to notice similarities between a lot of English and Icelandic words. Usually at least half of the words in a sentence. That also makes the less familiar words easier to memorize. It’s just easier to memorize sentences with less unknown words. With Hebrew pretty much everything was unfamiliar, so that ended up making everything slower to memorize for a while.

I know Icelandic can really be a pain in the butt to learn. I still want to. Maybe that makes it more appealing to me. French is a very friction-free language to learn, but I still didn’t stick to it. I though French being easy for me to understand would help me stay motivated to study it a little bit, but it didn’t. At first I enjoyed that I understood French without really studying it. Eventually I just got mad I was spending time studying French. An irrational anger. I just had to turn it off. Even though it’s an easy language and I actually like some French movies. Didn’t make me not dislike the language. Hebrew on the other hand was way harder for me to study. I didn’t even like how it sounded at first. I still didn’t get mad at the language. I also got pretty mad at German when I was doing some premade Anki decks and kept forgetting some words. 10 minutes felt like and hour. Somehow I felt like I forgot more German words that Hebrew words. Don’t know how that was possible. My Hebrew level wasn’t even that high.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:31 am

I’ve been thinking about my goal for 2022. I think I’ll mainly focus on finding purpose. When I first start learning any language I have this strong, but generally vague sense of purpose. Eventually I have to change my focus into language learning. I think that happens because the beginner phase would be unbearable for me if that didn’t happen. Beginner related activities are just so far away from anything that gives me purpose.

2021 was mainly focused on reading. I did improve a lot at reading, but somehow that wasn’t as satisfying as 2020. In 2019 and 2020 memorizing vocabulary was a huge goal. It’s not a main goal anymore and I’m having a hard time adjusting to it. I’m also at a stage where it’s easy for me to just ignore things I don’t know. It doesn’t stick out to me like it used to. It makes things easier, but at the same time it makes it feel harder to progress.

I think one thing that might help is GLOSS. I’ve tried about two years ago, but I didn’t stick to it. I still don’t think I’ll do it consistently, but I might try to study it more often. I like the way it makes me really pay attention to details. It made me realize how much better my comprehension actually could be. That’s actually kind of encouraging for me because I often feel like it’s hard to find media I like. I think I’ll be most likely to study it when I really feel like studying, but nothing else seems more interesting. If I find a TV show, podcast or book I’m very into I’ll definitely prioritize it over GLOSS.

I think I’ll focus a lot more on purpose along with continuing to improve my general skill level. Another thing I’ve been doing is just watching more Scandinavian shows on Netflix with English subtitles. I think it’s a nice passive way of studying without committing to anything. At this point the main goal is more related to purpose than getting the fastest possible progress. I still haven’t decided what I’ll do about Scandinavian languages which is another huge reason why purpose is a huge focus. It does seem like it boosts my motivation for language learning overall. It eventually spills into Hebrew. I find the days I watch Scandinavian shows I also end up putting more time into Hebrew.
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Re: General language log

Postby luke » Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:37 am

sporedandroid wrote:I’ve been thinking about my goal for 2022. I think I’ll mainly focus on finding purpose.

2021 was mainly focused on reading. I did improve a lot at reading, but somehow that wasn’t as satisfying as 2020. In 2019 and 2020 memorizing vocabulary was a huge goal.

I think one thing that might help is GLOSS.

Thanks for sharing your reflections.

If you come across a browser that you like for GLOSS, please mention it.
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