General language log

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sporedandroid
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:03 am

One thing I’m noticing more at an intermediate level is the gap between things I can understand and things that are comfortable and fun for me. This is very noticeable with books. I just got a book that seemed interesting, but slightly above the level I usually go for. I’m definitely reading it more slowly. So I think I’ll just buy a book closer to my usual level. I think at my stage making sure my input is compelling is most important.

At lower levels I was happy with anything that was remotely comprehensible. I could just listen to random podcasts passively and progress a lot. Now that I need to invest more time and energy it needs to be more compelling. Earlier this year I managed to push through TV shows that were way above my level just because they had very compelling and quick paced plots full of cliff hangers.

Even though my level is higher now, no TV shows are really compelling enough for me to keep watching. I think when I’m more advanced it will be less important. It’s not like a lot of the English content I mindlessly consume is compelling. I find a lot of the enjoyment I get out of content depends on it being easy. That ends up making a lot of content in Hebrew artificially less enjoyable.

I’m still pretty frustrated at the lack of the new vocabulary I’m learning, but I just have to get used to it. I think it’s partially because the places I would find more new vocabulary are a bit too challenging for me. I find online newspapers particularly frustrating. I can technically understand them, but it takes a lot of concentration and it’s pretty slow. Since my level is getting higher I sort of tune out unknown words when I’m watching the news. I have to concentrate to even notice unknown words a lot of the time and half the time they’re false positives. Sometimes I just get confused by the way something is phrased. When I break up the word to look it up or try to spell it if I’m listening to a podcast I often figure out what the word means without even looking it up. All of this means I just have to read more, but I just miss the feeling of progress that learning new words gives me.
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sporedandroid
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:43 am

When I was googling a random Hebrew phrase (מה הקשר) I found a Hebrew app for practicing vocabulary and analogies. I’m not exactly sure which age group it’s aimed at, but it’s obviously aimed at native speakers. Either way it’s super hard, so I put everything on the easiest settings. On the default settings I got most questions wrong, but on the easiest settings I got most things correct.

The most challenging part for me is dealing with the timer since I still have a very slow reading speed. I’m glad there was an option to turn it off. I’ll probably turn it back on when my reading speed has improved and I really want to push my reading speed more.

One thing I still struggle with in Hebrew is telling similar words apart. This isn’t so bad when things are in context, but it’s pretty bad when things are out of context. I think this app can help me with that issue. A thing I particularly appreciate is the vocabulary section of the app. It teaches a lot of collocations which I’m more likely to skip over than fully unknown words. I often notice when I learn a new collocation I suddenly notice it everywhere. I like that it provides example sentences and definitions. I often find that harder to find for collocations and lower frequency vocabulary.

One issue I have with this app is how tiring it is. That can temporarily lower my apparent fluency in Hebrew. So it might make it harder to just consume more content. It seems to be an app for test preparation, so it may or may not improve my general language skills. It might just be a more intensive way for me to study.
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Re: General language log

Postby luke » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:44 am

sporedandroid wrote:When I was googling a random Hebrew phrase (מה הקשר) I found a Hebrew app for practicing vocabulary and analogies.

Analogies! That sounds super cool. I can see how you might want to do it in small doses.
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sporedandroid
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:03 pm

luke wrote:
sporedandroid wrote:When I was googling a random Hebrew phrase (מה הקשר) I found a Hebrew app for practicing vocabulary and analogies.

Analogies! That sounds super cool. I can see how you might want to do it in small doses.

It seems like being forced to read fast is what was tiring me out. The app isn’t so bad when I avoid time limits. I do notice they repeat a lot of words, so maybe I shouldn’t use it too often.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:46 am

I think I’ve sort of hit a milestone in my reading level. It’s now easy enough for me to read posts on some casual forums for it to be entertaining. That’s a pretty big milestone because that means I’ll get more reading done in general. I’ve known about that site for a while. It was my reading level, but it wasn’t easy enough for me to stick with it.

Right now my issue with reading Hebrew is that I’ve only been really getting reading done when I dedicated time to it. I’ll still continue dedicating time to it and challenging myself. I’m going to try to get into the habit of doing some more casual reading and web browsing as well.

One issue I have with input in general is when there’s a mismatch between how much effort I have to put into understanding something and how casual it is. Mainly because a lot of that casual content is entertaining because it’s easy. That’s why I end up spending a lot of time on Reddit. A lot of the thing I end up reading about on Reddit aren’t even the most interesting to me. I think you also need to feel relaxed to really resonate with that content.

That’s probably why the concept of compelling content is so important. I have been able to push myself to watch TV shows that were way above my level, but had an exciting enough plot. Right now I’m not having much luck with TV even though my level is higher now. There’s just nothing compelling enough to make me deal with watching TV. Right now I watch news clips to try to improve my listening comprehension. What makes news clips hard is that they’re fitting a lot of information into a short amount of time. I don’t have the issue with podcasts or YouTube videos. I’m still at the point where podcasts and a lot of YouTube videos are easy, but TV is still too hard to enjoy.

I find news clips slightly harder than my comfort zone and still comprehensible. I’m not noticing very dramatic progress right now. I am noticing that I’m understanding more and more details when I listen to podcasts. I think that progress is harder to notice because in the past I would have gotten the gist of things. I think this is making podcasts more and more enjoyable. In the past the main thing I enjoyed about podcasts is that I was understanding Hebrew at all.

I think one huge goal I have for Hebrew before moving onto another language is being able to consume content more or less effortlessly. I still think I’ll be able to improve at Hebrew, but it can’t be as much effort as it is now. I guess the issue I have is that effort is relative. What I considered not a whole lot of effort in the past is now a huge amount of effort in retrospect. I have the tendency to only really be able to put a lot of effort into a limited amount of things at a time. While Hebrew is obviously manageable right now, it might not be if there’s another language competing with it for time and effort.

That was an issue I had with Icelandic and part of the reason I decided to pause it. It was competing with my time and brain space. It really messed with me. I find I process my target language by hearing sentence fragments in my head. I don’t consciously notice it. I mainly notice it when I’m drifting off to sleep and during some dreams. It’s all kind of okay if it’s all one language. If it isn’t it will all mash together in a weird way no matter how dissimilar the languages are. I think this process starts for me at around the A1-A2 level.

Icelandic definitely hit that level. Finnish and German didn’t, so they didn’t end up bothering me. If I feel like dabbling in a language I often end up dabbling in Finnish. My comprehension in French is higher than Icelandic, but it doesn’t set off this reaction either for some reason. Other Nordic languages don’t cause this issue either. It seems like even seeing a tiny bit of Icelandic sets off a bunch of sentence fragments in my head. I think it’s partially some intrusive thoughts at this point.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:36 am

I decided to start using the app Polylogger to log how much time I spend on Hebrew. I don’t know how long I’ll be able to keep it up, but I love seeing the statistics. I find seeing how much time I spent on anki used to motivate me a lot. As a beginner I would often spend an hour a day. When it my anki cards were subs2srs and multimedia that made sense. When I did anki I got listening, basic grammar and vocabulary done. For the last year I’ve only been doing text and vocabulary cards. They’re easy enough for me to make, but they’re way more boring.

For a while it sort of made sense for me to do up to 30 minutes a day of anki because I still had a lot of new vocabulary to learn. Now I’ve been decreasing the amount of time I spend on anki, so I can spend more time reading and consuming content in general. Spending a lot of time on anki doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for me because I don’t come across a lot of truly new words anymore. When I’m reading I do get tripped up by a lot words I actually do know, which I know is a clear sign I should read more. The more I’m reading the less this happens.

Reading is particularly challenging because I find it hard in general. I used to enjoy reading as a kid, but I haven’t really gotten into a regular reading habit in a long time. I find that learning to read Hebrew has actually improved my ability to read in general. I don’t think it improved my overall reading comprehension, but I’m definitely noticing way more endurance.

When I see my logs on Polylogger I’m happy to say anki is in only 11%. Reading is 20%, so about twice as much as anki. I think I do a tiny bit more reading than I log. It’s hard to log every tiny thing you do. I’m still weighted heavily towards listening. I’m finding it harder to notice progress in listening. I do notice more obvious progress in my reading comprehension since my level is lower. That makes it harder for me to read for long periods of time, but at least I read more than spend time on anki.

I think maybe I’ll try to keep up with Polylogger until Hebrew becomes easy and inherently enjoyable. It’s just challenging to keep up my motivation when my progress is becoming less visible, but a lot of things are still pretty hard to do. I can understand what TV shows are about, but I can’t watch TV to relax and I think I miss a lot of subtleties. Books to me still feel like studying. So maybe Polylogger will help bridge this gap.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:39 pm

I’ve been thinking of my goals for the year. I think I’ve sort of reached them. My reading goal was pretty vague and long-term. My goal was to be able to enjoy more literary works. I’m not sure I ever will. I definitely improved my reading. A lot of the books I read didn’t end up being Israeli. I just find it hard to find any enjoyable books that are my level. I found some books that seemed interesting that were above my level. I still don’t know if I’d actually enjoy those books.

I just find it too hard to deal with a cultural and a language barrier at the same time. A lot of times I’ll be able to deal with a cultural barrier better if something is translated into English. Maybe because they also try to translate the cultural barriers. Right now I’m reading a Korean book in Hebrew. I’m noticing too many cultural barriers. Some of these “cultural barriers” might also be language barriers. I think if I’m working hard to understand something it makes it hard to emotionally connect with something. It’s hard to tell at my level which is frustrating. At least when I was at a lower level I knew improving my level would improve things. Now I get less and less and sure.

I’m trying to find enjoyable or quick ways to improve my cultural knowledge. One thing I’ll do is Google search references that don’t make sense to me. I’m usually too lazy to, but when I do I sometimes I’ll find more information. Sometimes it will even be in English. If it’s in English I’ll read about it quickly. What I’m not interested in is reading some generalized books about Israel in English. Or in Hebrew. I don’t really enjoy studying history as a topic, but I sometimes enjoy studying specific topics from history if that makes any sense.

I sort of have luck doing that with academic lectures or non-fiction on topics I’m interested in or familiar with. My issue with them is that they’re too long for the difficulty level. I definitely wouldn’t find the language in academic lectures too hard if it was 10-20 minutes long, but since they’re usually at least 30 minutes or even over an hour long I find it deceptively hard.

Same issue with non-fiction. I’m starting to also get this issue with fiction. I find some adult fiction that seems to be somewhat my level and doesn’t have too many unknown words. When I read it I realize I have pretty much no endurance. Maybe it would be easier if I read more, but I find it very hard to know. Right now I’ve been avoiding any non-fiction because I’m just finding the pacing too hard to deal with.

Another goal I had was being able to watch tv shows like I can watch YouTube videos. I’ve sort of achieved that goal, but not quite. Maybe if I would have found a tv show I really like I would have more luck with that goal. A lot of tv shows were sitcoms instead of the sci-fi shows I liked. One thing I think gets in the way of understanding tv shows is being able to process information quickly. When I watch YouTube videos or listen to podcasts I don’t really need to do that. Even if people speak quickly or not as clearly. I find reading has actually helped with this. I find watching the news has sort of become more like watching YouTube videos. They used to have too much information, but now they’re about right.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:55 am

Today was a high energy day. I was able to listen to about 4 hours without noticing anything. I could also watch some TV shows and it didn’t feel much different than watching YouTube videos. So I sort of achieved my goal. Maybe they are slightly easier than the other TV shows I was watching. Maybe it’s because I have extra energy. I hoped getting more advanced would make me fluctuate less, but I actually feel like I’m fluctuating more.

In the past listening to podcasts for about 2 hours made words and phrases echo in my head. Right now this actually happens to me more when I read books. It’s not quite as vivid as when it was caused by listening. When I read books it also starts to feel more like my own thoughts. They still don’t feel like my own thoughts completely, but they do happen a lot when I’m drifting off to sleep. That also happened to when I read books in English. I’d often continue reading a book when I started to doze off.

One slightly annoying thing that happens with Hebrew is that when I’m having trouble understanding something it fills in the blanks with Hebrew words. This happened to me today when I found this Spanish video with Hebrew subtitles. It was an unfamiliar dialect, so I was struggling to understand. I occasionally heard a few Hebrew words that I knew weren’t there. I’m sure the Hebrew subtitles just confused me more. I don’t even consider myself to have active skills in Hebrew, but when I try to think of what something is in another language I notice a Hebrew word or phrase will pop up. This is one reason I prefer studying one language at a time.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:59 pm

A few days ago I finished my first young adult novel. It was a bit on the easier side, but I still noticed it was more challenging. There was a few chapters I had to reread to understand what was going on. It was a bit more confusing. It was still readable.

I bought a middle grade novel which I wasn’t as excited about. When I started reading it I immediately noticed how much easier it was. I think the lack of difficulty makes up for the book not being as exciting to me. Some themes in the book are a bit childish for me, but I read that later in the book more mature themes pop up.

Since the book doesn’t really introduce too many new words or grammatical structures I think it’s pretty good for improving my overall reading skills. I just notice I’m able to read it pretty quickly and that skill seems to be somewhat transferring over. I’m starting to just browse the web more in Hebrew in general. It’s getting easier, but it’s still not easy or compelling enough to be addicting.

I think so far that book is worth it because I'm noticing it’s easier to read non-fiction books I’m actually interested in. My issue with non-fiction was that I technically knew a lot of the vocabulary and could understand it, but I found that I didn’t have enough attention span to really read them. I think now that my overall reading level is getting higher I’ll be able to read books with longer sentences and chapters.
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:04 am

One thing tracking my hours has allowed me to do is to just chill. Today I was pretty tired and didn’t feel like I was very productive. Sometimes that makes me push myself to study more than I feel like. Since I could see I already spent two hours studying, I just decided to take a break.

I was also rereading sections of books I struggled with. I do that to learn new vocabulary and improve my overall reading ability. I find it hard to know when I’m having issues with vocabulary vs. issues with reading. So right now I treat it as the same thing. I kind of feel like I’m “wasting my time” when I’m rereading without learning truly new vocabulary. That also has no definable beginning and end like Anki, a podcast or video or reading a chapter or two from a book.

Anki is easy for me because it has a clear beginning and end and it shows you how much time you’ve studied. Since I’m reducing the amount of time I spend on anki I have to find a new way of measuring progress. For now it’s time spent in the language, but I know that’s not perfect. Not all time is equal and today it seemed like nothing I was doing was particularly challenging.
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