Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

[StringerBell]

My frustration is caused by constantly feeling like I am crawling towards my goals and never flying, I need to resolve this mental issue with myself. I'm really just venting my frustrations [again] at the size of the mountain I see before me... sorry but it's hard work and I'm getting increasingly frustrated at being bad at it

I tend to feel the same way toward Polish; I know I'm making progress, I know if I stick with it I'll eventually get "there", but I can't help but constantly feel that I don't know what the hell I'm doing and that I'm taking the scenic route while everyone else is on the highway.

It's really difficult to see progress with language learning. It's not linear, and it's not like everyday I can see that I'm a little better. For the most part, it feels like I'm always struggling at the same level and occasionally I realize that something that used to be really difficult suddenly isn't as difficult. So I have to seize these opportunities to acknowledge that my skills are improving, even when it doesn't feel like it.

My husband said something to me awhile ago in a moment where I was feeling demoralized that changed my perspective a bit. I think I was complaining that speaking Italian always felt hard, it never felt easier, and no matter how many new things I could say, there seemed to be 100 more things I couldn't. His perspective was that in the beginning, everything in a new language is hard, even the simple stuff. So you start out struggling to say simple stuff. As you get better, you struggle to say things that are more complex. So you're in a cycle of always struggling to say new things, using more and more complex vocabulary and grammar and expressions. Even though it feels difficult the complexity of what you can do is always increasing a little bit. So you're not struggling with the same thing, you're struggling with new things that feel like the same thing. (Sorry, I think my paraphrasing sucks, but you get the idea).

[Inst]

TBH, may I suggest a different method of counting effort? How many hours have you spent on Spanish? If you want to benchmark effort, DLI's course (iirc, American State Department or Department of Defense) is implying it should take 1200 hours or so to get to C1 in Spanish. You can learn a language for an hour a day over 2 years, and you'd still only be around 500 hours away from reaching C1 proficiency. For 3 hours a day over 1 year, you'd get roughly around C1 proficiency, 4 hours a day over 1 year, you'd get past that point.

Not saying that you should go to the 4 hours a day method, but it's just to put things into context if you seem to be seeing slow progress. You quite likely might be progressing at a normal rate for the amount of time you've put in.

Other thing is that I suggest you be more confident (hahaha, as though that advice ever worked). Worrying about how slow your language learning is isn't going to make your language learning any faster; in fact, it might slow it down by distracting you from focusing on the task at hand.

[Bex]

As you get better, you struggle to say things that are more complex. So you're in a cycle of always struggling to say new things, using more and more complex vocabulary and grammar and expressions. Even though it feels difficult the complexity of what you can do is always increasing a little bit. So you're not struggling with the same thing, you're struggling with new things that feel like the same thing. (Sorry, I think my paraphrasing sucks, but you get the idea).

This was really a very helpful and much needed reminder this week that I am actually improving, it is just something that I tend not to notice as much anymore. Thank you StringerBell.

You quite likely might be progressing at a normal rate for the amount of time you've put in.

Inst I think is very true, I have made my Spanish much more intense and immersive this week. Basically I need to spend more hours on task to actually see an improvement.

I think if you re-evaluate your language learning you might be ok. You need to not think about "learning Spanish" because you never will.

OK so I've been re-evaluating this week as suggested and I have been digesting all the wonderful advice given and I have 2 thoughts so far...

1. What exactly am I trying to achieve?
2. Accept that I am never going to be great with languages, even my own native language.

I am starting to realise that my feelings of frustration and are not just about Spanish, they are about me.

I'm not sure that this log is the place to discuss such issues nor am I sure how exactly I am going to address them.

[Cavesa]

Some say 10,000 pages is a "magic" number.

It seems doubtful to me that all you need to do is read 10,000 pages and you'll magically know Spanish. Maybe that is all there is to it? Maybe you need to do other stuff? And what if 10,000 pages isn't enough, that's a harsh lesson after all that reading/time!

To be clear I was responding to what one might do with native materials, not what one might do to magically know Spanish.

Sorry if I offended in any way. My comments were really directed towards the "some people" who say that 10,000 pages is needed. I was really just thinking aloud sorry.

I am definitely one of the people recommending 10000 pages of books. But not as "that's all you need to do".

-it is the reading part, not the whole learning. whether or not it is the main thing you need to do or one of many, that depends on your personal skills, talents, and progress so far
-it is a very good number giving some sense of direction in the learning phase often lacking it
-it is a high enough number to really make you improve. You may not be perfect after 10000 pages but you will definitely be a big step further
-it is a small enough number to still look doable.

[rdearman]

I am starting to realise that my feelings of frustration and are not just about Spanish, they are about me.

Looks like you're about halfway through the super challenge. Do you think you're better at Spanish now than when you started? Think you'll be better still at the end?

[Bex]

I am starting to realise that my feelings of frustration and are not just about Spanish, they are about me.

Looks like you're about halfway through the super challenge. Do you think you're better at Spanish now than when you started? Think you'll be better still at the end?

Yes you're right I've read 46 books so far. I've gone back to reading Harry Potter 3 again, which I tried to read at the beginning of the SC but I stopped because it was too difficult.

I can now read it relatively smoothly, although I'm still missing a lot of vocabulary. So yes my reading has definitely improved... I'm not sure about my Spanish in general though.

Although now you've made me think about it I realise my instincts for which tenses to use and other grammar issues I had before I started the SC are starting to improve....I noticed this earlier this week when I started listening to the Glossika GSR2 level 2 files in my passive listening time this week.

[rdearman]

The horizon goes on for a long time, and you don't know how far you've come until you look back.

[Bex]

If you're in the habit of getting seriously frustrated over things you can try tackling that holistically.

Are you getting frustrated over something that might be biological? Based on my review of your approach to language learning I think it's way too early to blame nature. What are your goals and what are you doing to reach them?

Maybe you feel you've earned the right to feel frustrated. You can read/reread Thornbury's defossilization blog.

On the first page of your log you wrote:

"I live in Spain and I would like to be able to talk with my neighbours, dentist, doctor supermarket attendant….etc, etc.

Year 1 (2015) Fiesta. Living in expat bubble. Learned how to order a beer.

Year 2 "Frustration.You enrolled in classes but you spoke very little.

Year 3 Year 3 2017: Finding your way.
"I went back to teaching myself and had an almighty struggle with myself to continue with my studies. But I did it, I finished Assimil, Glossika 1, Michel Thomas and Duolingo.thanks to much support on here along the way."

The unholy alliance. You didn't find your own way. You followed.

"Then I got lost again, I didn't know what to do after the courses and I still wasn't speaking."

Towards the end of the year you did some italki tutoring.

Year 4 The "input" challenge.

That's still not your own way.

Your recent "stats" look OK if you consider that for you guys a book is 50 pages. I saw some forum talk about how many pages one "needs". To do what?

In December you wrote something odd:

This week's stats....

Read 212 pages in total.
1 hour of listening.

My extensive reading is much faster than I was expecting. Lots read this week.

Audio is very good for forcing me along and not allowing me to look up words, although I have had to speed up the audio a lot in order to keep up with my reading speed. I have had the audio at double speed, otherwise I find myself drifting off.

I have only managed 3 Glossika GSR2 tracks this week..."

And then in February

"Listening: I am trying to improve my listening skills. I can listen and follow all of a NIS intermediate podcast and I know from reading the transcripts afterwards that I have understood correctly. When I read the transcript I understand 90-99% of it so there's hardly any unknown vocabulary.

However there are words/sounds that I just miss because I can’t process the speech fast enough, I know that this will come with practice and lots of listening but it is annoying me, and I know that slowing down the audio doesn’t help me with this...so I have decided to speed up the audio to double speed. I am going to listen to the same 30 minute double speed audio everyday during next week and see if I can speed up my listening skills at the same time.

My hope is that if I can follow the 30 minute audio completely after a week then it will seem slow when I listen at normal speed. Or I may just be mad?

Speaking: I appear to have given up on Glossika. It’s too difficult and I am never in the right frame of mind for it. I may just add one random extra iTalki chat once a month to keep on track with my speaking target.

Reading: I am finding the Harry Potter book difficult to read, .."

Speeding up the audio... I've seen that before. Yeesh. Glossika - that's not speaking. Good riddance.

Do you have any Spanish friends? Can't you tutor someone in English in return for Spanish lessons? Can you volunteer somewhere or tutor the neighborhood kids in English? You know, "explain" stuff in Spanish. Do your own kids study Spanish? If those two sick kids were just visiting you can still spend some time watching easier programs. That could include some nonfiction. Do you listen to Spanish music?

I am thinking about this ⬆️⬆️⬆️

I am thinking about finding "my own way".

Everyone else's methods do not work for me...reineke has clearly shown this in his post above and others have kindly told me this [repeatedly] too...I need to listen.

I do Anki...
I read Harry Potter...
I listen to FSI...
I listen to Glossika...
Etc, Etc...

I do make progress, I can see that, but I am struggling to continue.

I do lot's of things I either find boring or don't enjoy just because I think I should. I think learning doesn't count unless it's difficult....I am wrong.

Everything I have either enjoyed or found interesting in Spanish I have always finished really quickly and spent lots of time on. That right there tells me everything.

I [finally] understand that I need to make Spanish mine, I know it but I don't do it. I doubt myself and then I think I am wrong. All the experienced learners do it this way or that way, they know what they're doing so I'll copy them.

I am so down about my Spanish at the moment, if I don't fix it....I will soon be broken.

[MamaPata]

Maybe it’s time to take a break? I’ve definitely felt like you before (particularly when there’s stuff outside of languages that is making me lose confidence in myself) and it can start to feel like you are forcing yourself to study. And for me, that’s the worst thing to do. This is our hobby, it’s our free time that we’re using. If it’s not pleasurable at least some of the time, maybe leave it for a week or two (or a month if that’s what it takes). I have found in the past that I come back much more keen.

[reineke]

I do Anki...
I read Harry Potter...
I listen to FSI...
I listen to Glossika...
Etc, Etc...

cart.jpg

That sounds like a choo choo train of unpleasant things to me.You can relax and take a break from these important things by listening to Spanish.The content is supposed to carry you, pull you in and push you forward and not the other way around. HP is ok. I prefer The Little Prince. You might hate it. You can visit the local library with the kids and see if you can find something else that's more interesting. If that's impractical, hit the book stores. Address people in Spanish and don't feel bad about switching to English. Soon you should be able to conduct most of your shorter transactions entirely in Spanish.

I do make progress, I can see that, but I am so down about my Spanish at the moment, if I don't fix it....I will soon be broken.

hc.png

Hang in there.