Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

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Tristano
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Location: The Netherlands
Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
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Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby Tristano » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:21 pm

I have been not very present in the last year, in big part because of boredom and because I didn't know what to write about. This year I will try something else, but in general I expect the usual uninspiring bland log. That's where acceptance comes in place.

I will write mainly in English but probably also in Italian and Dutch.

Quick recap: I have been busy with a multitude of languages, which except English and my native Italian, are to be catalogued:
- Dutch, around c1, the language of the country where I live with my daughter and not girlfriend, and that I use every day at work
- French and Spanish, active and passive knowledge, passive very good, active not great
- Romanian and German, passive knowledge only, not very good
- Bulgarian, passive knowledge only, pretty bad
- Hebrew, forgot everything about

Right know I'm busy with German. I'm alternating reading extensively and intensely. I'm now reading Studien und Plaudereien, second volume, old book (1850? Something less that I guess). No problem, I'm more interested in literature than chatting with random germans. I'm also using Méthode 90, the old book, with French base.
Talking about French, I intend to oil it a bit. I can in theory just take a random podcast for native speakers, but I'm going through a long listening time of Daily French, which is for me possibly the best language learning podcast ever created.

And that's it for now, Bulgarian requires too much active and frequent study for now, I will maybe read some Spanish novel along the year and maybe some Romanian? I barely know what I will do tomorrow, can't plan so long.
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reineke
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Re: Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby reineke » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:22 pm

Tristano wrote:

reineke wrote:Bulgarian used to be classified on FSI charts together with German (ie 750 class hours).


vonPeterhof wrote:
Tristano wrote:There is the verb to be unlike other Slavic languages

A nitpick, but all Slavic languages have the verb "to be"; it's just that in the East Slavic languages its use in the present tense is much more limited, to the point where its present tense forms other than third person singular are obsolete.

Bulgarian and Russian have an unusual relationship in that, even though they're neither particularly close relatives nor close neighbours, there is a great deal of overlap in vocabulary due to Russian having been strongly influenced by (Old) Church Slavonic, which is almost the direct ancestor of modern Bulgarian (in fact OCS is usually just referred to as "Old Bulgarian" in Bulgarian). Aside from that, there's the shared use of Cyrillic, as well as the stress system in Bulgarian being more similar to the East Slavic languages than to any of the other (standard) South Slavic languages. The grammars are fairly different though, with Russian on the one hand retaining much of the old noun declension system (with the notable exception of the vocative case, which is the only non-nominative case to survive in Bulgarian) and Bulgarian on the other keeping the old verb conjugation system mostly intact (except for the infinitive and supine forms).


As a European located in central Europe with easy access to basically the whole Europe, it is nice to realise that Bulgarian is a very fortunate strategic choice, as it
- open the roads to Cyrillic
- open the roads to Slavic languages. Macedonian is closely related, Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian and Montenegrin seem to have much vocabulary in common with it, Slovak holds south Slavic features and open to Czech and Polish, Bulgarian has also greatly influenced Russian and in minor part Romanian. It is also part of the Balkan Sprachbund, which makes the other Balkan languages somewhat more familiar.
- and in all is also one of the easiest Slavic languages, which means I can focus fully on my biggest goal - learning Slavic vocabulary.
- well it is also spoeken a beautiful country which has amazing food :Q____ __

As for my method, since I won't document this journey in my Dutch log so much:

1) learn pronunciation and alphabet. [DONE]
2) learn first 100 to 300 high frequency words [DONE]
3a) lessons with tutors [IN PROGRESS]
3b) skimming through grammar explanations [IN PROGRESS]
3c) intensive vocabulary learning through sentences on SRS [IN PROGRESS]
4) extensive reading [TO DO]
5) extensive listening [TO DO]
6) active use of the language if needed [TO DO]


I don't know if you saw this:

Conversion Training in Related Languages
(SLS strongly encourages you to consult the Language Training Supervisor)
Closely related languages: (average length of training assignment 10-12 wks)
• Czech 3/3 > Slovak 3/3
• Serbo-Croatian 3/3 > Croatian variant 3/3 :> Serbian variant 3/3 Bosnian variant 3/3
• Macedonian 3/3 > Bulgarian 3/3
• Indonesian 3/3 > Malay 3/3

Related languages: (average length of training assignment 14-18 wks)
• Thai 3/3 > Lao 3/3
• Russian 3/3 > Ukrainian 3/3
• Spanish 3/3 > Portuguese 3/3

Other Related Languages:
• Germanic 3/3 <:::> Germanic 3/3 (18 to 22 wks)
(Germanic languages: Dutch, German, Norwegian, Danish, Swedish)
• Slavic 3/3 :> Slavic 3/3 (30 to 36 wks)
(Slavic languages: Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Macedonian, Polish, Russian,
Slovak, Slovenian, Ukrainian)
(Converting Bulgarian or Macedonian 3/3 to Russian 3/3 typically requires the full
44-week course
.)

https://www.state.gov/m/fsi/sls/c78549.htm
https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/247092.pdf

My guess is that native speakers of Russian and Bulgarian see a better discount due to the overlap of a significant amount of medium and low frequency vocabulary items and some finer grammar points that take time to acquire. Good luck.
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Tristano
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Location: The Netherlands
Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
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Re: Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby Tristano » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:23 am

I guess you're right. On the other hand, if I understood well, this list is about both comprehension and production skills. A second language Bulgarian speaker has a significant discount when it comes to learn Russian, in term of learning vocabulary. The grammar though differs significantly, which makes the production skills not any easier to acquire.
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Tristano
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Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 am
Location: The Netherlands
Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
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Re: Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby Tristano » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:32 pm

Non ho abbastanza parole per descrivere quanto io apprezzi DailyFrenchPod. È una risorsa perfetta per lo studente a livello intermedio che già conosce una parte significante del vocabolario comunemente utilizzato e che vuole allo stesso tempo affinare la comprensione orale, la pronuncia della lingua francese ed apprendere nuovo vocabolario. Il lettore ha una voce gradevole che non mi stanco di ascoltare e articola benissimo risultando mai noioso a dispetto della bassa velocità di lettura.

Il concetto è semplice: all'inizio della lezione viene presentato un dialogo corto o il preambolo di un articolo. Di seguito viene dissezionato ed esaminato il vocabolario e per ogni parola od espressione vengono presentati un paio di esempi, ed il tutto i francese facendo talora anche ricorso alla traduzione in inglese, qualora utile a disambiguare il significato.

Così semplice che trovo incredibile che io non abbia trovato nessun altro podcast in altre lingue che utilizzano lo stesso principio. Anche il numero di episodi è impressionante: ci sono infatti più di 1300 episodi!

Se qualcuno conosce un podcast del genere in altre lingue, me lo faccia sapere! Avrà la mia eterna gratitudine.
Last edited by Tristano on Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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reineke
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Re: Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby reineke » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:54 pm

DailyFrenchPod is in the list of French resources along with some other podcasts. You can also say hi to Les Voyageurs. People familiar with this podcast might be able to come up with similar podcasts in other languages.
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Tristano
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Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 am
Location: The Netherlands
Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
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Re: Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby Tristano » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:10 pm

I just spent my last 20 minutes typing from my phone and eventually losing the whole message. In brief I was thanking Reineke for his tip and praised his work with the list of resources, mentioned I started to read the bilingual German and English version of Siddharta of Herman Hesse and found great pleasure in it, and concluding noticing I didn't spend much time in reading classics in my life and finding my desire of doing so greatly augmented, a possible hint I'm not getting any younger.
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reineke
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Re: Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby reineke » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:07 am

I get logged out very quickly while writing/editing but also when following hyperlinks. Can you or whoever else has been having this problem perform the following:

Go to the main area.
Tap/click on Language Programs and resources
Go to the Master list and then click on Polish

I got logged out repeatedly doing this.
If you get logged out please report it. Thanks.
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Tristano
Blue Belt
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 am
Location: The Netherlands
Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
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Re: Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby Tristano » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:55 am

It doesn't happen to me. As for my problem, it was my fault, I tapped the wrong button and lost the whole message.
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Tristano
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Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 am
Location: The Netherlands
Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
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Re: Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby Tristano » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:22 pm

This is what I have done with languages during the last weeks: niente.

Ok technically it isn't true since I only speak Italian with my 2 years old daughter and my parents an all the rest happens in L2.

But I am not studying. Little works for my new house and expecting a second child are taking all my energies.
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Re: Anno nuovo, log nuovo (2019)

Postby StringerBell » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:37 am

Tristano wrote:Ok technically it isn't true since I only speak Italian with my 2 years old daughter...


This is a mistake that my husband still occasionally makes, and it makes me realize that some language rules are really absurd, because the English rule here really makes no sense when I try to think about it logically. I'm sure this is something you know and it just slipped accidentally, so don't take this as some annoying person giving you grief, I'm pointing it out rather to say that I don't understand why languages need to be so arbitrary sometimes.

She is 2 years old, but then.... My 2 year old daughter. When I get frustrated with Italian, these kinds of things make me realize that English is no better!
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Italian goal: transcribe 10 episodes of Lucifer : 10 / 10 Woo-hoo! Finally done
Link to the Italian transcripts I created for season 4 Lucifer: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts


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