Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby rdearman » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:36 pm

StringerBell wrote:Unfortunately, I’ve not been able to find a source for buying Italian ebooks (that's kindle compatible) besides Amazon, which I’m not willing to do anymore since with Amazon you don’t technically own the book, you’re leasing it with embedded DRM tracking/spying software, which I'm not ok with.

Google for "side loading a Kindle" it will show you how to put books into your kindle. Basically just convert the book to kindle format using Calibre then sideload it by putting into the docs folder and off you go.
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:40 pm

StringerBell wrote:One of my problems is that I have an especially awful memory. Once a few months (or even weeks) pass, I don't remember most of what happened in a movie or TV show that I watched, nor do I remember the details of books. I can continually rewatch shows and reread books because I forget so much of what happened that it's almost like approaching it fresh.


You're not alone. I read more than 100 books per year (almost 150). A significant part is crime fiction. Sometimes I can't name the main characters, nor retell the intrigue. :shock:

But books which I really like, which I may have read recently, or a long time ago when I was a kid - when the characters and the story really came alive - I'm sure I could take any one of them and be able to read extensively. In a number of languages that are not even listed in my profile.

You can do it.
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby IronMike » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:00 pm

StringerBell wrote:...besides Amazon, which I’m not willing to do anymore since with Amazon you don’t technically own the book, you’re leasing it with embedded DRM tracking/spying software, which I'm not ok with.

Wait, what? I don't own the 100s of books my family (read: I) have bought?
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:59 pm

rdearman wrote:Google for "side loading a Kindle" it will show you how to put books into your kindle. Basically just convert the book to kindle format using Calibre then sideload it by putting into the docs folder and off you go.


I will look into this. This other part of the problem is that even with kindle compatibility not an issue, I can’t seem to find a good source for contemporary (not public domain) Italian ebooks at all. Do you know of any?

jeff_lindqvist wrote:But books which I really like, which I may have read recently, or a long time ago when I was a kid - when the characters and the story really came alive - I'm sure I could take any one of them and be able to read extensively.


I am jealous of this! The one novel that I read about 10 or 15x as an adult I couldn’t read extensively in Polish at all. I still had to use the English version as a parallel text and go chapter by chapter. Only in this way could I follow the general idea of what was happening, even though I couldn’t understand (nor learn) the individual unknown words. I don't remember well any of the books I used to like as a kid. As a teenager, I never read books multiple times, so no matter how much I loved them, I've long forgotten all the details.

IronMike wrote:Wait, what? I don't own the 100s of books my family (read: I) have bought?


Just in case you’re not joking and didn’t realize this, I’m including a link that explains how with kindle book titles you’re “leasing the right to access” them. It’s pretty easy to find online other articles on this topic.
https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/you-d ... -1C6626211
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby rdearman » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:24 pm

StringerBell wrote:Do you know of any?

Some of these might get you started.

https://www.kobo.com/it/it
bookrepublic.it
cubolibri.it
ebook.it
ebooksItalia.com
UltimaBooks.it
www.mondadoristore.it
bol.it
deastore.com
ebook.ilLibraio.it
hoepli.it
lafeltrinelli.it
libreriaRizzoli.it
libreriauniversitaria.it
net-ebook.it
webster.it
www.zanichelli.it
www.ibs.it/
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby IronMike » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:55 pm

StringerBell wrote:
IronMike wrote:Wait, what? I don't own the 100s of books my family (read: I) have bought?


Just in case you’re not joking and didn’t realize this, I’m including a link that explains how with kindle book titles you’re “leasing the right to access” them. It’s pretty easy to find online other articles on this topic.
https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/you-d ... -1C6626211

Nope, was not joking. Had no idea. And we do have literally hundreds of books. None taken away (yet?) but several have been "updated" somehow over the years. But...interesting. Thanks for the link.
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Books 4 sale here. (Admin ok'd)

SC EO films : 40 / 50
SC EO books : 26 / 50
SC RU films : 6 / 50
SC RU books : 7 / 50
SC IT films : 5 / 25
SC IT books : 0 / 25
365 Challenge : 203 / 365

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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:20 pm

rdearman wrote:Some of these might get you started.


Thanks! I was familiar with Mondadori but I don't think I came across all the others before. Bookrepublic.it seems particularly good.

Unfortunately it seems that all of those sites sell ebooks only compatible with Kobo (not Kindle) or if they had epub/PDF formats available like Bookrepublic.it does, they were Adobe DRM locked - so that's the same problem as buying from Amazon. I haven't come across ebooks in PDF/epub format with DRM embedded, I wonder if that's a new thing, or something they decided to do specifically to Italian books? The Polish ebooks I bought don't have DRM. I should look into using Calibre, as you mentioned earlier but since I think I've reached my frustration threshold with this stuff, I will probably end up just sticking to paper books. I appreciate your help, though.
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby rdearman » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:09 pm

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: 306 / 75000 Output Challenge 2019 (普通话写作):

Lollygagging Podcast available on iTunes

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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:44 pm

Prepare yourself for a real bummer of a post. In fact, you should probably not waste your time by reading this.

I'm feeling pretty uninspired and demotivated about language learning. I'm not sure if this is something that will pass, or if ultimately it means that this just isn't the hobby I was hoping it would be. I started working on Italian for real exactly 2 years ago. I've already reached my initial goal of being able to easily understand almost everything that native speakers say in real life or on TV, which is great, and I plan to maintain this ability if for no other reason than it makes life much easier when I interact with my husband's family and friends.

However, I don't seem to be able to make improvements in any other area beside listening. Things that seem to work for everyone else don't seem to work for me.

I have 2 main problems when it comes to speaking:
1) making grammar mistakes/not knowing how to use some verb tenses and constructions properly which severely impacts my ability to express myself.

2) I don’t phrase things the way I should. I still do too much literal translation even though I don’t think in English when I’m speaking Italian. I have trouble even with everyday conversation that I've heard and said hundreds of times. It doesn't flow. It never feels automatic. Even after what feels like an obscene amount of CI (both from TV and real life, at this point probably ~2,000 hours) this never gets better. I simply don’t absorb speech patterns. I think this inability is at the heart of why I’m not a good language learner. Even my husband is shocked that I can listen to things repeatedly and then still say them wrong.

After multiple failed "immersion" attempts in the past, I've been periodically trying mini "immersions" at home where for a one day or a few days I only speak in Italian. During this time, I only read/watch/listen to Italian, AJATT style. Rather than improve, without fail I get steadily worse until the experiment ends, or I'm forced to cut it short because my speaking ability degrades to the point of only being able to muster one word answers. Speaking more paradoxically makes me worse every single time. Yet all the advice I keep finding about how to get better at speaking involves speaking more. When I do that, it backfires. I'm at a loss.

I wanted to finish my Practice Makes Perfect course book before trying to do some writing again (because otherwise I just keep making a ton of the same annoying grammatical mistakes, reinforcing them in the process), but working on the course book is torturous and I've been avoiding it. To be honest, I don't even want to write, the idea of it feels like a punishment, so maybe that's contributing toward the avoidance of finishing the course book.

The other reason why I’m stuck in the book is that I’m actually trying to learn what’s in the chapters instead of glossing over things, and I’m at an impass working on present tense conjugations of -ere/-ire verbs for congiuntivo/subjunctive. There’s tons of exceptions and I can’t memorize a simple pattern like I could with -are verbs. This is only one tiny aspect of applying congiuntivo and I can’t even make it through present tense verbs.

The little I've been able to do in the book has been very useful, but I'm stuck. Even if I chose to ignore the congiuntivo quagmire, it’s taken me ~8 months to do 10 chapters. I hate grammar study, I hate attempting to memorize verb conjugations, I hate doing Anki for more than a few days at a time. The problem is I don't assimilate things from listening or reading in a way that I can then use them myself, so I need some direct instruction to fix problem #1, but I simultaneously reject it.

Every time I come across a suggestion that might have a chance to help me improve in some small way, it either failed in the past or the idea of doing it is so awful that I can’t bring myself to do it seriously.

-Speak more > makes me worse

-Write > I keep reinforcing the same mistakes, didn’t help when I did it in the past, even when I got corrections. This is why I stopped and decided to finish the grammar book first.

-Do FSI> the idea makes me want to kill myself (hyperbole). I can’t even finish my current course book.

-Relax, don’t worry about, you’ll improve with time > nope, didn’t happen

So I will suspend updating this log for awhile until I have something useful to add. Maybe I'll return to it with renewed enthusiasm after finding some kind of magical fix. In the meantime, I'll just keep treading water with watching TV and listening to podcasts. If anyone has advice that’s different from things I’ve already done, I’m willing to try anything new. But unfortunately, I think I’m just not cut out for this.
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby cjareck » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:19 pm

It was sad to read it, but I understand you. Language learning should be a pleasure, not torture. So, if you don't feel it, don't force yourself into it. You will only get frustrated.
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