Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
ロータス
Blue Belt
Posts: 572
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:33 pm
Languages: English (N), Mandarin (HSK 2/TOCFL 1), Korean (Beg)
x 716

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby ロータス » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:55 am

StringerBell wrote:I'd like to figure out how to post these transcripts for others to use. I created a Wordpress account, but it looks like trying to paste text from a table will be...impossible. At least without investing many hours of research into how to make it work, which I'm not willing to do.


>trying to paste text from a table will be...impossible
I just tried this and it worked...? Are you trying to paste the text without the table outline? I copied and pasted from Word and Excel and it copied over the text and the table just fine. Can you maybe post an image of what it looks like when you try?
1 x
Reading in one language | Learn by Reading
步伐多慢无关紧要,只要你坚持不懈。
~Confucius

StringerBell
Blue Belt
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:30 am
Languages: English (n)
Italian: ~ C1 reading/listening and ? speaking
Polish : on hiatus
Latin: beginner
x 2173

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:16 am

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Attachments
Wordpress.png
Wordpress.png (51.67 KiB) Viewed 531 times
Last edited by StringerBell on Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
0 x
Italian goal: transcribe 10 episodes of Lucifer : 3 / 10
Link to the Italian transcripts I created for season 4 Lucifer: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

User avatar
ロータス
Blue Belt
Posts: 572
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:33 pm
Languages: English (N), Mandarin (HSK 2/TOCFL 1), Korean (Beg)
x 716

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby ロータス » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:51 am

StringerBell wrote:
ロータス wrote:Can you maybe post an image of what it looks like when you try?


Any idea what I'm doing wrong? I copied+pasted the entire thing, including the table. I used a table created in Pages (for Mac). It won't let me adjust the columns or change the formatting in any way.

Wordpress.png


Ok, seems Wordpress has updated there post editor, I'm still on the Classic version. If you click on the three dots in the top right and select "Switch to Classic Editor", the table you post should look better. You can adjust the columns but you have to look at the html code to change it. Next to 'Visual' is a button for the HTML code. Change it to something like:
<table dir="ltr" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><colgroup> <col width="25%" /></colgroup><colgroup><col width="75%" /></colgroup>
Red for the change

Change to Classic Editor should also fix the word wrapping in the table
0 x
Reading in one language | Learn by Reading
步伐多慢无关紧要,只要你坚持不懈。
~Confucius

StringerBell
Blue Belt
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:30 am
Languages: English (n)
Italian: ~ C1 reading/listening and ? speaking
Polish : on hiatus
Latin: beginner
x 2173

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:11 pm

:x It doesn't offer the option to switch to Classic mode. Thwarted again!

Here's what I get when I click the 3 dots:
Wordpress.png
Wordpress.png (56.93 KiB) Viewed 480 times
0 x
Italian goal: transcribe 10 episodes of Lucifer : 3 / 10
Link to the Italian transcripts I created for season 4 Lucifer: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

User avatar
ロータス
Blue Belt
Posts: 572
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:33 pm
Languages: English (N), Mandarin (HSK 2/TOCFL 1), Korean (Beg)
x 716

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby ロータス » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:17 pm

StringerBell wrote::x It doesn't offer the option to switch to Classic mode. Thwarted again!

Here's what I get when I click the 3 dots:
Wordpress.png


Wow is this update garage. Can't even change the code of the table... You can try this plug and see if that works or pasting your transcript in excel or Google spreadsheets then copying from there to Wordpress and see if that fixes the first column...but then there is still the issue of the words not wrapping to the next line without breaking down the middle... hmm. If those things don't work, maybe try Tumblr or Blogger. Wordpress really dropped the ball with this editor update in my eyes.
0 x
Reading in one language | Learn by Reading
步伐多慢无关紧要,只要你坚持不懈。
~Confucius

User avatar
rdearman
Site Admin
Posts: 4672
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Languages: English (N)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1836
x 11039
Contact:

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby rdearman » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:42 pm

Why don't you use our wiki? The link is at the top of the forum. I'm sure it would be easier and accessible by forum members and everyone else.
2 x
: 6 / 100 100 Italian paperbacks:
: 306 / 75000 Output Challenge 2019 (普通话写作):

Lollygagging Podcast available on iTunes

StringerBell
Blue Belt
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:30 am
Languages: English (n)
Italian: ~ C1 reading/listening and ? speaking
Polish : on hiatus
Latin: beginner
x 2173

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:03 pm

ロータス Thank you for trying to help with Wordpress, I really appreciate it.

I posted Season 4, Episode 1 of Lucifer to the wiki following RDearman's suggestion, but I'm not confident that I did it correctly, because even though I think I created a category for Transcripts, it doesn't show up in the list of categories.

Here is the link to what I posted. If anyone has suggestions for making it easier to find, please let me know! I guess I'm planning to post episode 2 below what I have currently posted, but this doesn't seem like a great idea, format wise. I'd prefer to have it organized like this: Transcripts >>>Italian>>>Lucifer, Season 4>>>Episode 1 But I can't figure out how to make subcategories. The only other option I saw was to post it as a series of articles, but that didn't make a lot of sense, either.

https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts
2 x
Italian goal: transcribe 10 episodes of Lucifer : 3 / 10
Link to the Italian transcripts I created for season 4 Lucifer: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

StringerBell
Blue Belt
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:30 am
Languages: English (n)
Italian: ~ C1 reading/listening and ? speaking
Polish : on hiatus
Latin: beginner
x 2173

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:01 pm

While working on dopełniarz/genitive case this morning, I got hit by a very big "OMG that's it, I can NOT learnt these f*!&ing case endings, I give up!" Had I attempted to start out with grammar in the beginning, I would be 100% giving up right now. But having invested so much time and energy into this language, I don't want to give up that easily. I can deal with biernik/accusative and narzędnik/instrumental, but dopełniarz/genitive just might just be the nail in the coffin.

So, I'm questioning what I want to do about Polish. Originally, I wanted to just be able to read/listen, and for those things I don't have to be able to apply any case endings. But then at some point, I decided that I'd at least like to be able to communicate at a basic level (basic meaning simple, not basic meaning riddled with errors). It's possible that I'm overreacting, but it's equally possible that I will actually never be able to produce relatively simple sentences correctly. Do I keep trying? Do I just content myself with understanding and give up on ever actually speaking without a ton of mistakes? Should I give up all together? <<<probably won't do that last one, but it's on the table.

I'm not going to make any decision while I'm in such a bad mood, so I'm going to just try to keep going and see how I feel a little later. I'm hoping I'll feel more positive about Polish grammar in a few days.

For anyone reading this, what was the most frustrating/difficult/impossible grammar concept you had to learn in a foreign language and how did you deal with it?
8 x
Italian goal: transcribe 10 episodes of Lucifer : 3 / 10
Link to the Italian transcripts I created for season 4 Lucifer: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

User avatar
cjareck
Green Belt
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:11 pm
Location: Poland
Languages: Polish (N) English, German, Russian(B1?) French (B1?), Hebrew(B1?), Arabic(A2?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=8589
x 789
Contact:

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby cjareck » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:19 pm

In high school, I was generally lazy. I didn't learn almost anything and was rather a mediocre pupil. My ambition was not to have 2 at the end of the semester. This was the lowest positive mark you can get. We had German and English and the teacher said that I will have 2 at the end. I said that I would like to take an exam of whole material to have 3. I had to learn the case government of verbs in German. Which verb takes which case - "Warten auf + Akkusativ" (to wait for somebody + accusative). I made flashcards manually and learned them by heart. I passed with flying colors. Neither I nor my German teacher would believe then that German will be the main language in my academic research ;)

The other thing is that you should communicate and learn by making errors. Children learn that way. As I stated this already, even my youngest (almost 6) use sometimes regular forms where the word should be declined or conjugated regularly. I correct them and they learn. And they are native speakers.

I had a hard time with my Hebrew, but my recent visit to Israel gave me so much motivation that I have still some of it. And just as it started fading out, new fuel came into its place - I started to understand the written and the spoken language. Not everything, but I see the effects.

So do not break down, but intensify your efforts to overcome the bad mood. My PM box and my email box are waiting for your writing practice. If you wish language exchange I can arrange it with my wife. With her English, you will be forced to communicate in Polish ;)

(edit)
And since you are learning Latin Repetitio est mater studiorum

(edit2)
I made a mistake in my case government example ;) Thanks to Kat for pointing it out. It is correct now.
Last edited by cjareck on Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
12 x
Please feel free to correct me in any language
FSI Hebrew Basic Course
: 39 / 40

Avigdor Kahalani, עז 77 (Heigths of Courage)
: 17 / 200


DLI MSA Basic Course
: 11 / 140
Polish course Arabic for beginners
: 3 / 40

User avatar
rdearman
Site Admin
Posts: 4672
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Languages: English (N)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1836
x 11039
Contact:

Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby rdearman » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:20 pm

You may be affected by demoralization. I wrote a blog article about this and did a presentation you can watch here and read the presentation once (spoiler, it is in French). Yes I know my French is bad, not need for more comments. :)

Part of the problem is that once you see just how high the mountain is, you want to give up. When you were in the foothills learning new words it was all sunshine and grass. Now it is rocks and snow capped peaks!
StringerBell wrote:OMG that's it, I can NOT learnt these f*!&ing case endings,
This is an example of poor thinking. You should try to put thoughts like this one on trial. You "cannot" learn this? If you have 16 hours per day with a native speaker and 150 years to learn it could you learn it? Course you could. So you can learn it, just perhaps not in the timescales you have envisioned. So the problem isn't what you're learning but your expectations.

People usually avoid tasks or self-efficacy is low, but undertake tasks where self-efficacy is high. You must believe that you will eventually understand and you will. I translated a bit of my presentation from French.

  • Low self-efficacy can lead people to believe that tasks are more difficult than they actually are. This often leads to poor job planning and increased stress.
  • Barriers often stimulate people with high self-efficacy to greater efforts, where a person with little self-efficacy will tend towards discouragement and abandonment.
  • A person with high self-efficacy will attribute failure to external factors, where a person with low self-efficacy will assign a low capacity.

Modeling is experienced as "If they can do it, I can do it as well". When we see someone succeed, our own self-efficacy increases; where we see people fail, our self-efficacy diminishes. This process is most effective when we consider ourselves to be similar to the model. Although not as influential as direct experience, modeling is particularly useful for people who are particularly uncertain about themselves.

The first and most important source of self-efficacy lies in mastery experiences. However, nothing is more powerful than having direct experience of mastery to increase self-efficacy. Success, for example in mastering a task or controlling an environment, will increase self-confidence in this area, while failure will undermine this belief in effectiveness. Having a resilient sense of self-efficacy requires experience to overcome obstacles through effort and perseverance.

The second source of self-efficacy comes from our observation of the people around us, especially those we consider as role models. Seeing like-minded people to succeed through their continued efforts reinforces our belief that we also have the capabilities to master the activities needed to succeed in this area.

Influential people in our lives such as parents, teachers, managers or coaches can reinforce our beliefs that we have what it takes to succeed. Being confident that we have the capabilities to master certain activities, we are more likely to make the effort and support when problems arise.

The state in which you are will influence how you judge your personal effectiveness. Depression, for example, can reduce confidence in our abilities. Stress or tension reactions are interpreted as signs of vulnerability to poor performance while positive emotions can reinforce our confidence in our skills.

Psychologist James Maddux has suggested a fifth way to self-efficacy through "imaginal experiences", the art of visualizing oneself behaving effectively or successfully in a given situation.


So I would suggest you do can few things. Think about your timescales. Give yourself 25 years to get to a basic level, not so much stress and pressure, so you might get better quicker. Next look at all the people who've learned Polish as a second language.

Nicolaus Copernicus was a Polish astronomer who put forth the theory that the Sun is at rest near the centre of the Universe, and that the Earth, spinning on its axis once daily, revolves annually around the Sun. This is called the heliocentric theory. Scientists often use the “Copernican principle” which states that Earth is not a special planet circling a special star and neither are we humans special creatures by extension to say that we are not in a special time, or special place, or have special abilities. We are most likely to be in the NORM. So all the people who learned Polish are unlikely to be special. They are MUCH more likely to be statistically normal humans. You are likely to be a statistically normal human. SO if all those NORMS can learn Polish, then so can you.

IN answer to your question about how did I learn difficult grammar concepts? Well I basically ignore them. I don't read grammar books and I don't study grammar. Like cjareck's children, I'm letting people correct me and I try to get a shedload of exposure. Sometimes I look up grammar, but very, very rarely. I also have a long rant about my rubbish methods somewhere on this site, but I couldn't find it. Basically if you want to learn a language, don't use me as an example. :)
8 x
: 6 / 100 100 Italian paperbacks:
: 306 / 75000 Output Challenge 2019 (普通话写作):

Lollygagging Podcast available on iTunes


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gsbod and 2 guests