Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

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cjareck
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby cjareck » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:48 pm

StringerBell wrote:nie pali się = there's no rush (there's the "się" at the end!),

If the reflexive verb is because something is done to the doer of the action, it is logical in my opinion. If something burns it deteriorates and finally burns out. So the action of burning is done to the doer - to the fuel of the fire. And that is why we use "się" ;)

StringerBell wrote: akurat teraz nie = not right now. "akurat" is one of those slippery words that keeps showing up with slightly different meanings and I feel like I can never get a grip on it.

You are right. In this case, it strengthens the meaning and says that yesterday or tomorrow maybe (but not necessarily) but surely not now.
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:11 pm

cjareck wrote:
StringerBell wrote:nie pali się = there's no rush (there's the "się" at the end!),

If the reflexive verb is because something is done to the doer of the action, it is logical in my opinion. If something burns it deteriorates and finally burns out. So the action of burning is done to the doer - to the fuel of the fire. And that is why we use "się" ;)


I was pointing out that "się" came after the verb (at the end of the sentence/phrase) instead of before: nie pali się vs. nie się pali. This seems to be one of those instances where it's ok to end with "się", but I'm not sure why.

HELP!

Would you say that these are equally acceptable, or that one is definitely better than the other?

1) Przedwczoraj byliśmy tam.
2) Byliśmy tam przedwczoraj.

3) Cztery lata temu ona studiowała w Polsce.
4) Ona studiowała w Polsce cztery lata temu.

5) Wiem, że nie pracowaliście wczoraj.
6) Wiem, że wczoraj nie pracowaliście.
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby cjareck » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:29 pm

StringerBell wrote:I was pointing out that "się" came after the verb (at the end of the sentence/phrase) instead of before: nie pali się vs. nie się pali. This seems to be one of those instances where it's ok to end with "się", but I'm not sure why.

Well, I would say that it is the normal place for "się":
Co robisz?
- Myję się
- Czeszę się
But
Co masz zrobić?
- Muszę jeszcze się uczesać
- Chcę się jeszcze umyć or Chcę jeszcze się umyć

So it seems that when there is only reflexive verb, "się" should by behind it. It there is something else however, "się" goes to the front.
StringerBell wrote:1) Przedwczoraj byliśmy tam.
2) Byliśmy tam przedwczoraj.

The second one is more natural. The first one only if you wish to stress that only the day before yesterday you were there. Something like saying on 12th September 2001 that on 10th of September you visited WTC.

StringerBell wrote:3) Cztery lata temu ona studiowała w Polsce.
4) Ona studiowała w Polsce cztery lata temu.

Second one is better, first one stresses the time and is less natural without any special circumstances that need to stress the time. It is less weird than the first sentence in the first example.

StringerBell wrote:5) Wiem, że nie pracowaliście wczoraj.
6) Wiem, że wczoraj nie pracowaliście.

They are more or less equal to me. The first one rather suggests that they were obliged to work but didn't do it. The second one just states a fact for me. But this is only mine interpretation not the grammar rule ;)
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby rdearman » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:40 pm

StringerBell wrote:I learned about an Italian show that's fun: Love Bugs. It's from 2004, and there are some full episodes available on YT:

Splendido ! :)
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby ILikeKarkówka » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:14 am

It has been really interesting reading this log and your previous one. I haven't got through the entire thing so apologies if you have already answered this question or I have missed it but what was the motivation to learn Polish all those years ago and go on a course in Poland? Do you have a connection in your heritage? Also do you have any avenues to use the language or any intention to visit the country again? Or is it something you pursue purely out of interest?
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:09 pm

ILikeKarkówka wrote:It has been really interesting reading this log and your previous one. I haven't got through the entire thing so apologies if you have already answered this question or I have missed it but what was the motivation to learn Polish all those years ago and go on a course in Poland? Do you have a connection in your heritage? Also do you have any avenues to use the language or any intention to visit the country again? Or is it something you pursue purely out of interest?


I am a heritage speaker. My family on both sides comes from Poland, Polish is the native language of my maternal grandparents (only my grandmother is alive) and my mother, though my mother grew up in the US so she really only speaks Polish when speaking to her mother. I have spoken to my grandmother in Polish, but surprisingly this proved very difficult because even though her English is absolutely terrible, she is so used to speaking to me in English that she automatically reverts to it every few seconds. It's strange that this would happen because she really struggles with English even though she's been living in the US for ~70 years (she only speaks in present tense, for example, so you have to use context to understand most of what she's saying, and it's often really confusing).

I have spoken more successfully with my mother, and I should probably do this more because it's fun. I think I don't because (1) I have a hard time motivating myself to speak and write in Polish because I find it really taxing, and (2) she has a tendency to mix a lot of Polish and English (kind of like a Polish version of Spanglish) and since she often doesn't know more modern words (especially related to technology) she incorporates English words, so I'm sometimes not sure if what she's saying is correct.

I would love to visit Poland again, but I'm not sure how likely that is to happen. Warsaw is one of the few cities in Poland I haven't yet seen. I have a LEP in Warsaw and the Polyglot Gathering will be taking place there, so I think the universe is trying to give me a sign :lol: I have some health issues that make traveling difficult, but if I have a period of time where I'm feeling better and I am able to get myself back to Europe, I would love to return to Poland. I mainly just view Polish as both a fun hobby and something I do to prove to myself that I'm capable of learning it after failed attempts in the past using crappy methods; I really like the challenge.

BTW, I just checked out the Podcasts with Transcriptions from Polish with John that you mentioned on your log. What a great resource! I already signed up to support him on Patreon, and I'm trying to figure out that most enjoyable and productive way to use those transcripts (in addition to listen+reading). Thanks for mentioning it! I'll write more about it in a future post.
Last edited by StringerBell on Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:17 pm

Does anyone have a good recipe for Bigos? I've eaten it in restaurants in Poland, but since it's something my family never prepared I'm not sure how to make it. I'm sure I could find videos on YT, but I figured I'd ask here first since cooking channel recipes can be really hit or miss.
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby ILikeKarkówka » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:01 pm

StringerBell wrote:
ILikeKarkówka wrote:It has been really interesting reading this log and your previous one. I haven't got through the entire thing so apologies if you have already answered this question or I have missed it but what was the motivation to learn Polish all those years ago and go on a course in Poland? Do you have a connection in your heritage? Also do you have any avenues to use the language or any intention to visit the country again? Or is it something you pursue purely out of interest?


I am a heritage speaker. My family on both sides comes from Poland, Polish is the native language of my maternal grandparents (only my grandmother is alive) and my mother, though my mother grew up in the US so she really only speaks Polish when speaking to her mother. I have spoken to my grandmother in Polish, but surprisingly this proved very difficult because even though her English is absolutely terrible, she is so used to speaking to me in English that she automatically reverts to it every few seconds. It's strange that this would happen because she really struggles with English even though she's been living in the US for ~70 years (she only speaks in present tense, for example, so you have to use context to understand most of what she's saying, and it's often really confusing).

I have spoken more successfully with my mother, and I should probably do this more because it's fun. I think I don't because (1) I have a hard time motivating myself to speak and write in Polish because I find it really taxing, and (2) she has a tendency to mix a lot of Polish and English (kind of like a Polish version of Spanglish) and since she often doesn't know more modern words (especially related to technology) she incorporates English words, so I'm sometimes not sure if what she's saying is correct.

I would love to visit Poland again, but I'm not sure how likely that is to happen. Warsaw is one of the few cities in Poland I haven't yet seen. I have a LEP in Warsaw and the Polyglot Gathering will be taking place there, so I think the universe is trying to give me a sign :lol: I have some health issues that make traveling difficult, but if I have a period of time where I'm feeling better and I am able to get myself back to Europe, I would love to return to Poland. I mainly just view Polish as both a fun hobby and something I do to prove to myself that I'm capable of learning it after failed attempts in the past using crappy methods; I really like the challenge.

BTW, I just checked out the Podcasts with Transcriptions from Polish with John that you mentioned on your log. What a great resource! I already signed up to support him on Patreon, and I'm trying to figure out that most enjoyable and productive way to use those transcripts (in addition to listen+reading). Thanks for mentioning it! I'll write more about it in a future post.

I'm glad I've managed to find something useful to potentially help someone. Likewise I'll let you know how I get on with it.

StringerBell wrote:Does anyone have a good recipe for Bigos? I've eaten it in restaurants in Poland, but since it's something my family never prepared I'm not sure how to make it. I'm sure I could find videos on YT, but I figured I'd ask here first since cooking channel recipes can be really hit or miss.


Unfortunately all my stuff is packed now but I do have a recipe. If I don't remember then remind me in a few weeks. I will ask my wife if she can remember it. It is really straightforward so I'd probably be inclined to trust google/youtube.

More generally - There is a book called "Kuchnia Polska" which is amazing. Our version is from the 70s or 80s, so it may be different from the editions printed recently but it's an amazing and comprehensive book on Polish cuisine (in polish of course). You have some very simple and traditional recipes as well as numerous varieties for each type of dish.I have used it for a few dishes and they have come out amazing.
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:28 pm

Since we are about halfway through the year, I thought I'd do a half-year in review.

POLISH:

This year really marked the beginning of using native materials. In 2019, I've:

-Read intensively the entire book Nowe Przygody Mikołaja (a collection of 45 short stories)
-Read+Listen to audiobook extensively Dzieci z Bullerbyn (created a parallel text using GT)
-Read+Listen to audiobook extensively the novel Szklany Zamek (using the English version as a parallel text)
-Read+Listen to audiobook extensively the novel Dolores Claiborne (using the English version as a parallel text)
-Read+Listen to audiobook INTENSIVELY 1/2 of the novel Za Zamkniętymi Drzwiami, plus multiple listenings without text (using the English version as a parallel text)
-Watched 6 episodes of Ultraviolet on Netflix (multiple times) with subtitles INTENSIVELY
-Watched 3 seasons (78 episodes) of Rodzinka.pl extensively without subtitles

This year has also marked the beginning of using an actual course book. It's possible I started it at the end of last year, I can't remember. As of now, I'm almost 3/4 done with the Preston Publishing Speak Polish A1-A2 book. I anticipate finishing it in about 2 weeks.

I've done other things not mentioned above, but I think this is it this year for native materials and grammar.

In the 2nd half of this year, I'd like to:
-continue with grammar, though once I'm done with the current Preston book, I think I'd like to cut down to ~1/2 hour of grammar per day.
-do a little more writing
-I think I also would like to try a few lessons with a Polish tutor on Skype, but I'd like to beef up my grammar a little more before I start that.
-finish the 2nd half of Za Zamkniętymi Drzwiami
-Read+Listen to another book extensively
-Begin intensively reading one of the YA books I have without audio

ITALIAN:

This year also marks the use of a course book for the first time. In 2019, I've:

-finished 9/20 chapters in the Practice Makes Perfect Complete Italian Grammar book
-watched several dubbed shows on Netflix (like La Casa De Papel aka Money Heist), Lucifer, and a few others
-read 2 Diary of a Wimpy Kid books intensively
-read YA novel Perks of Being a Wallflower (Noi Siamo Infinito) 1x extensively and am 1/2 way done rereading it intensively
-begun my overwhelming project of transcribing season 4 of Lucifer in Italian
-listened to lots of podcasts. I've currently finished 9/20 episodes of La Società dei Ghetti

I've done a lot of other odds-n-ends things in Italian that I won't bother mentioning.

In the 2nd half of this year, I'd like to:
-finish the PMP course book. considering it's taken me 1/2 a year to do 1/2 the book, this seems doable. Ideally, I'd like to finish it much sooner than that, but we'll see.
-Stick with the Lucifer project
-Read the other 2 Diary of a Wimpy Kid books that I have
-Read Il Sentiero della Speranza extensively
-Possibly find a new LEP partner since my long-time one disappeared months ago
-Resume writing when I finish the PMP course book

LATIN:

I've been working on Latin a little bit everyday this week. I reached the halfway point in the Cambridge book, and I've decided to go back to the beginning to do scriptorium with all of the stories, including the ones that don't have audio. This language is meant to be a low-key fun language, so I don't want to make a lot of goals, but my general plans for the 2nd half of the year are:

-Do scriptorium for all the stories
-Finish the Cambridge book
-When I'm done, start the Lingua Latina book that is sitting on my bookshelf
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Re: Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

Postby StringerBell » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:58 pm

Woo-hoo! I finally finished transcribing episode 1 of Lucifer (season 4) in Italian!!! What a pain in the you-know-what. It's still early, but I think this project is actually worth the time/energy. I've gotten the whole thing corrected. In the beginning I was really struggling to hear things, and I made a lot of errors. As the episode went on (and as I got each new piece corrected) it started to become a little easier, and I was definitely making fewer mistakes.

From the episode, I learned:
sfogati pure (just let it out)
La sua versione torna (his story checks out/makes sense)

I'd like to figure out how to post these transcripts for others to use. I created a Wordpress account, but it looks like trying to paste text from a table will be...impossible. At least without investing many hours of research into how to make it work, which I'm not willing to do.
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