Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

[StringerBell]

LATIN:

Thank you to everyone for your suggestions and help, I always appreciate it! If I get through this Cambridge book and decide that I want to stick with Latin for the long run, my next step will definitely be to get the Familia Romana book.

ITALIAN:

I decided that I needed to do something easy, so I started reading through another Diary of a Wimpy Kid book that I have. The whole book only has 217 pages (there's not much writing on each page) and I easily read 1/4 of the book in a short amount of time. As easy as it was, there were still a few new words (though these were extremely easy to figure out from context, so I didn't get slowed down by having to look them up). It felt so refreshing to take a step back and read something easy and silly. I'm hoping to blow through the rest of this book in the next few days and then resume my intensive re-reading of the Perks of Being a Wallflower.

It's critical for me to have some easy activities to fall back on when I start getting overloaded from my intensive activities.

POLISH:

It's amazing that after all this time, I'm still trying to figure out how to most effectively watch TV. I'm in the 3rd season of Rodzinka.pl (~episode 57) and while I definitely have picked up a few things here and there, it still feels like I have a long way to go before I can watch an episode and hear and understand everything without having to rely on context. It occurred to me that I still have 1/2 the season of Ultraviolet on Netflix to watch, which has subtitles. Why am I not taking advantage of that? A good question for which there is no answer other than I just totally forgot about it.

So, I watched an episode of Ultraviolet today with subtitles. Ahhh...subtitles, how I love you!!! I decided that instead of doing what I have done with the first few episodes, which was to transcribe everything and look up every single unknown thing, I'm going to just look up a few things here and there to make it more enjoyable and less laborious. I realized that even when I was writing down everything from the first episode, I didn't remember a lot of it, I had to refigure a lot of it out from context when I rewatched episodes. So, instead of straining myself with each episode, I'm going to try to just pick out bits here and there and hope all those bits eventually add up.

[eido]

I'm hoping to blow through the rest of this book in the next few days and then resume my intensive re-reading of the Perks of Being a Wallflower.

I love that book! Why didn't I think of reading it? Oh, @StringerBell, why have you brought this upon me... Let us know how it goes.

[StringerBell]

Time for a sit-rep!

ITALIAN:

-I have done another page in the Practice Makes Perfect courebook. This page was discussing uses of ci vs ne which I found quite useful, since there are certain times when I don't understand why one is used as opposed to another. In general, I know that ne means "of it" or of them" but then sometimes it shows up and I really can't figure out why. This chapter didn't help with that, but it did illuminate for me that ci means "here" while ne means "from here"...this was something I didn't realize and I think it will clear up some confusion for me.

-I'm 3/4 done with the Diary of a Wimpy Kid (La Dura Verità) book I started the other day. I'm a little torn between just breezing through it for pleasure vs. going back and mining useful vocab and sentence structures. I'm sure I'll at least pull some sentences to do scriptorium with.

-I've been doing a Memrise deck of Italian colloquial expressions. I know a lot of them, but there are enough new ones to keep it interesting. I mainly do this for 10 minutes or so at night before bed.

-I had an impromptu conversation in Italian with in-laws the other day. I haven't really spoken in Italian in ages, though I could tell that it felt a little easier and I was using slightly more complex sentence structure than I used to use, but simultaneously I felt a bit rusty. I think it might be time for me to revisit speaking/conversation practice. My long-time LEP disappeared on me a few months ago, so I have to decide if I should try to find a replacement or practice with my spouse/in-laws again.

POLISH:

-FINALLY finished Nowe Przygody Mikołajka - the last story was 4x longer than all the other ones, so it took awhile. I have already reread many of these stories, and I will probably go back and read them all again as an "easy" extensive reading activity.

-I've been thinking about rereading the book by Luca Lampariello in Polish (which I read back in December) just to see how difficult it is for me now. Polish feels like it never gets easier, but I think that's just the territory that comes with being an intermediate learner; it's a place where everything feels like work and progress is slow and hard to measure. I don't want to give the impression that I'm not enjoying it, because I am. And thinking about that fact that I started learning Polish from scratch just less than 1.5 years ago, I guess I can't complain at the progress I've made.

-I finished episode 6 of Ultraviolet. I took a ton of notes during the last episode, and I will probably ask a bunch of questions in a follow-up post.

LATIN:

-I finished Stage 5 (I don't know why this book calls chapters "stages"). Once I finish the next chapter, I'll be 1/2 done with the book; it's really going quickly. I'm enjoying it more than I expected, and I think I'll order the Lingua Latina book now so that I don't have to wait too long for it to arrive.

-I've been playing around a bit with the Memrise deck for the Cambridge course. It's useful to reinforce the meaning of a few words that are not obvious, but mainly it's just for fun.

-Today I listened to the audio tracks 1-8 without looking at the text, so it was just listening practice. Listening to Latin is kind of weird, but also fun. So far, between the grammar and vocabulary that I know from Italian, Polish, and my many years of school French most of what I'm encountering feels really familiar and doable. I'm sure it'll get a lot harder later on, so I'm trying to enjoy this phase where sentences are simple and easy.

[StringerBell]

Here are some of the Polish questions I've been accumulating:

1) I have come across 3 forms of the past tense for "I forgot":
-zapominałam
-zapomniałam
-zapomiałam
Are all 3 correct? Can you provide any insight about when one is used vs. another?

2) Do both of these sentences sound ok, or does one sound better than the other:
-Poszliśmy wzdłuż rzeki, więc się nie zgubiliśmy.
-Poszliśmy wzdłuż rzeki, więc nie się zgubiliśmy.

3) Do you commonly use the word skrzynk (box) to mean your email inbox?

4) In English, when we see someone whom we haven't seen in a long time, we commonly say, "Long time no see"; would you say "Kopę lat" in this situation, or is there something else that's more common?

Synonym check:
5) Is there any difference between podejdź tu vs. chodź tu? Are they interchangeable?

6) mieć farta = mieć szczęście (to be/get lucky).

7) przybiory = drobiazgów? (little things/odds and ends)

[cjareck]

Here are some of the Polish questions I've been accumulating:

1) I have come across 3 forms of the past tense for "I forgot":
-zapominałam
-zapomniałam
-zapomiałam
Are all 3 correct? Can you provide any insight about when one is used vs. another?

Correct are the first two, but they differ in meaning. The first one means that you forgot something repeatedly while the second means that you forgot only once.

2) Do both of these sentences sound ok, or does one sound better than the other:
-Poszliśmy wzdłuż rzeki, więc się nie zgubiliśmy.
-Poszliśmy wzdłuż rzeki, więc nie się zgubiliśmy.

Second one should be: Poszliśmy wzdłuż rzeki, więc nie zgubiliśmy się
First is a little more common because secound sounds more formal to me.

3) Do you commonly use the word skrzynk (box) to mean your email inbox?

Yes "skrzynka" or "skrzynka pocztowa"

4) In English, when we see someone whom we haven't seen in a long time, we commonly say, "Long time no see"; would you say "Kopę lat" in this situation, or is there something else that's more common?

It may be, but is quite colloquial so may be used only among people who know themselves well.

Synonym check:
5) Is there any difference between podejdź tu vs. chodź tu? Are they interchangeable?

Not much, first one is more formal/polite

6) mieć farta = mieć szczęście (to be/get lucky).

They mean the same but first one is colloquial

7) przybiory = drobiazgów? (little things/odds and ends)

You mean przybory and drobiazgi
Thay may be synonims but may not. It depends on situation. "Przybory" they are small useful things for something like needles are "przybory do szycia". "Drobiazgi" are just small things. So they are both small and when the context is known you may refer to "przybory" as "drobiazgi" (for e.g. not to repeat the word in to following sentences) but only then. You may not do the opposite since not every "drobiazg" is "przybór".

[StringerBell]

Thank you, that was very helpful.

Second one should be: Poszliśmy wzdłuż rzeki, więc nie zgubiliśmy się
First is a little more common because secound sounds more formal to me.

I've heard that in general it's better to avoid ending a sentence with "się" which is why you'd say "Co się stało?" instead of "Co stało się?" but maybe it's not as simple as that. Are there certain verbs like "zgubiliśmy się" where this doesn't apply? Or maybe sentences can end with "się" sometimes but not others based on how it sounds? I have definitely heard some sentences end with "się" but it doesn't seem to happen too frequently, and I'm never sure why it's ok sometimes but not others.

[cjareck]

I've heard that in general it's better to avoid ending a sentence with "się" which is why you'd say "Co się stało?" instead of "Co stało się?" but maybe it's not as simple as that. Are there certain verbs like "zgubiliśmy się" where this doesn't apply?

Unfortunately, I can't give you any reasonable answer to this. Just take as a general rule what you've heard and write down all the instances where you find "się" at the end and when you will have some examples we may discuss them here.
Just came into my head:
"Siedziałem w parku i Zamyśliłem się" - seems to be more natural than "Siedziałem w parku i sie zamyśliłem", but that sounds natural also.

So, avoid "się" at the end and ask if you encounter any exceptions

[StringerBell]

POLISH:

TV watching update:

I'm pretty sure that recently I wrote that it feels like I have a long way to go before I can understand all the dialogue in a Rodzinka.pl episode without having to rely on nonverbal cues and context. There are no subtitles for that show.

In the past few days I've been rewatching previous episodes of Ultraviolet on Netflix. When I first started with this show (in Jan?), these were really difficult even with subtitles. I transcribed the first 3 episodes and looked up everything I didn't know (which was most of it) but then I decided to stop doing this because it felt too laborious and I wasn't convinced it was very efficient because it seemed like I wasn't remembering a lot of what I looked up. Not being sure what to do, for an episode or two I'd watch it with Polish audio + Eng subtitles, then rewatch with Polish audio + Polish subtitles. This seemed to work ok.

Then I put the show on the back burner for a while and now that I'm returning to it, I'm watching new episodes with Polish audio + Polish subtitles and I pause to look things up as needed. This seems to be working well; either I made an improvement, I'm more used to the kinds of things the characters are likely to say, or I'm just more comfortable with not understanding 100%. I can definitely follow the episodes using my current method, and while I know that I do miss things, I don't think I'm missing too much. So, I plan to stick with this until the end of the season. I hope they make more episodes, because I'm enjoying the show and there are only 10 episodes.

Today, I decided to rewatch episode #1 which I haven't watched in several months. I expected to struggle and not remember much, but it was actually quite easy to understand. I still missed a few things, but I found myself taking notes on useful expressions that I'd like to use for scriptorium rather than words/phrases I didn't understand. It was the first time watching native TV that I felt like it's starting to click.

My plan is after rewatching these episodes a few times with subtitles, I will eventually rewatch them yet again without subtitles. <<<I'm sure I'll forget all about this plan. I have Rodzinka.pl to watch as my subtitle-less (?) challenge, but I really think that having the subtitles for at least one show makes a big difference in what I can hear and understand, and makes looking things up so much easier. I like the idea of watching a show intensively with subtitles, really getting a good grip on what everyone is saying, and then rewatching without the subtitles.

ITALIAN:

I finished the 2nd Diary of a Wimpy Kid book yesterday. There is such a wealth of colloquial expressions, that I have to go back through it and choose some things for scriptorium. There are quite a lot of instances where synonyms/alternate ways of saying things are used, and because there are silly pictures and an easy-to-follow story, it's very simple to understand what those expressions mean.

I haven't done anything further in my Practice Makes Perfect book; I'm in Ch 5 after 6 months, I think I may be trying to challenge Bex for the title of longest time to get through a textbook. I really do absorb it better in small doses spaced out, and I'm not often in the mood to do it, but when I am in the mood, I benefit from it. I think that doing this course book at this point was the right choice. I'm really glad that I fixed my confusion over definite/indefinite articles, and I often find myself thinking about the grammar points throughout the day; it feels like my brain just really wants to take its sweet time to absorb grammar rules.

After finishing season 4 of Lucifer on Netflix in English a few days ago, I watched the first 3 episodes of season 4 with Italian dubbing. I learned the Italian word for doorknob (which they repeated about 10x) but then forgot it as soon as the show ended . I hope Netflix has plans to add FIGS audio to the first 3 seasons like they do with most of their originals.

LATIN:

I haven't done Latin in the past 2 days, but I did order the Lingua Latina book and also the graded reader that goes along with it. I'm not planning to do Latin every single day, I'm thinking more like every other day or 4-5x/week. It might be better to do 10-20 minutes every day, but I often find that once I get started with it, I don't want to stop so I'm not sure I'd be able to limit myself to such a short amount of time every day.

[Bex]

I finished the 2nd Diary of a Wimpy Kid book yesterday. There is such a wealth of colloquial expressions, that I have to go back through it and choose some things for scriptorium. There are quite a lot of instances where synonyms/alternate ways of saying things are used, and because there are silly pictures and an easy-to-follow story, it's very simple to understand what those expressions mean.

.
I was just thinking of starting on the Wimpy Kid's series, good to know it will be useful.

I haven't done anything further in my Practice Makes Perfect book; I'm in Ch 5 after 6 months, I think I may be trying to challenge Bex for the title of longest time to get through a textbook

... ....

[Polish Paralysis]

I have just come across your log and have been reading it with great interest. In general, I employ very similar methods to yours to learn languages, primarily listening to obscene amounts of content both interesting and not. I feel I'm at about the same stage in my Polish journey as you, having completed Piotr's Real Polish payed courses and nearly all of his podcasts. I find myself at a bit of loss at this point as it was fairly smooth sailing until I decided it was time to finally distance myself from my beloved Piotr.

In my opinion the two most painful parts of learning Polish the lack of series (shows) that use original polish voice/dubbing (I don't think I could ever get used to the Lector as appealing as his voice may be to some Poles) and the complete lack of subtitles available for anything whatsoever in Polish. What little there is on Netflix, I have watched for the most part. Currently, I'm using a few resources:
Youtube (main resource): I have more or less watched all of Nieprzeciętne Życie, 7 metrów pod ziemią, Polimaty, Krzysztof Gonciarz and a few others.
Podcasts: I mainly listen to Kryminatorium (which comes with transcripts), Polski daily (great)
Books: I have started a few but given up on each occasion. It's was simply too painful for me. Too many words that not in common use.

With the few resources I have mentioned and with new episodes always in the pipeline, as long as I listen repeatedly to content there will always be enough listening material for me. I probably stray from the way you learn most in the fact that I am a lot lazier. Very seldom do I bother to look up words or write anything down. For the most part I simply listen, firstly with english transcript/subtitles (thanks google auto-translate) and then with Polish transcript/subtitles a few times. At that point I call it a day. Polish is such an immensely complex language that I'm simply going to have to be patient and allow my brain to absorb all the intricacies of the language.

Thank you for all your insights. Will be tracking your progress.