Polski & Italiano (+ Latin) Episode II: StringerBell Strikes Back

[cjareck]

Not an update, just a silly observation. In Dolores Claiborne, it seems like someone is often saying "Ty suko!" (you bitch!). I noticed there is someone on this forum named Suko, and I wonder if it's kind of weird to see someone named "bitch". I chuckle when I see it.

I presume that Suko is some kind of a Japanese name. There was (still exists?) a factory producing military planes during the second world war - Yokosuka

Btw. "suka" in biology is a term for a female dog.

[StringerBell]

It's the same thing with English - the word for "female dog" is bitch, which people also use as a curse. I wonder how many languages use the word for female dog as a curse?

In Italian, one way of saying child is "bimbo" which means something very different in English...in fact, I can't bring myself to ever say that when I'm speaking Italian. It just feels wrong!

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POLISH:

I am about 75% done with Dolores Claiborne. I started doing something a little bit different with interesting results.

In the beginning, just listening to normal-speed Polish was like listening to a wall of sound. Eventually, I could pick out words from the wall of sound. I spend a lot of time reading the text while listening, which over time helped me to get used to the speed and helped me to be able to pick out more and more words. Now, I'm at a point where the speed of spoken Polish is not a problem; I can hear individual words just fine, so my comprehension is determined by how much of the vocabulary I know and how familiar I am with phrases and idioms and general ways of phrasing certain ideas.

Early on, I couldn't listen to Polish while reading English. It just didn't work for me. When I finally got to a point where the speed felt comfortable, I decided to revisit listening to Polish while reading English, just to see if it worked better now. So what I've been doing lately is:

1) Read a chapter in English
2) Read that same chapter in Polish, while listening to Polish audiobook
3) Read the same chapter in English, while listening to Polish audiobook

Now, I'm finding that I can listen in Polish while reading the English version, but I don't think it would work as well if I didn't do the previous steps first. I originally thought this was something that made no sense, but now I realize that it makes sense once I have a good enough level in the language that I can hear individual words and recognize enough of them to make sense of what I'm hearing. Reading in English just reinforces the difference between how to say something in English vs. how to say it in Polish. I think there is a sweet spot for using this technique of 2 languages simultaneously; not too early on where the target language still sounds like nonsense, but not after a point where it feels so comfortable that the native language crutch is more of a distraction than a help.

ITALIAN:

I mentioned last time that reading Diary of a Wimpy Kid feels refreshingly easy; I've decided to put grown-up books on the back-burner temporarily and read a few of these simpler books. I was able to find two other books in the series on amazon used for a good price; hopefully they'll arrive quicker than the first one and I can continue reading them without having a break. After I finish the third book, I'm planning to switch back to adult level books.

I've also been reading some Italian articles. A few of the newer ones from Efficacemente, and also a few from a new site created by Erika Porreca (she often appears on Podcast Italiano with Davide) where she writes about social anxiety. So far there are only 5 articles on her blog, but I know she plans to add more soon.

And I binge-watched a bunch of episodes of Camera Cafe on YT; each episode is ~5 minutes, so it's easy to watch one here or there when there's a few free minutes. Some episodes are definitely much better than others, but overall most are enjoyable. Apparently, Camera Cafe also exists in a bunch of other languages, including French and Spanish. The premise is that there's a hidden camera directly over the coffee machine in an office break room, so every episode takes place in the same location.

[cjareck]

It's the same thing with English - the word for "female dog" is bitch, which people also use as a curse. I wonder how many languages use the word for female dog as a curse?

I didn't know that! In Polish people used to curse males by saying "Ty psie!" (You dog!) earlier. Now it is obsolete and not used since we have much more interesting and stronger curses? Perhaps "Ty suko" is an equivalent for a female that simply did not become obsolete? There is only one alternative "ty kurwo", which is the strongest curse you may say to a woman.

[StringerBell]

ITALIAN:

I just learned that in Italian, a "six-pack" (washboard abs) is called la tartaruga (a turtle). Well, I guess the abdominal muscles do look more like a turtle shell than a 6 pack of beer/soda.

POLISH:

I wanted to write a Polish saying that I've come across a few times, but I can't seem to remember in which part of the book I came across it. It translates to something like "I'd sooner grow a cactus in my hand" and I think it's an equivalent to the English expression "when hell freezes over" or "when pigs fly". Maybe cough, cough someone can help me out with the expression in Polish. I think it's something like: prędzej rosnący kaktus na dłoni, but that's probably not 100% correct.

[cjareck]

Maybe cough, cough someone can help me out with the expression in Polish. I think it's something like: prędzej rosnący kaktus na dłoni, but that's probably not 100% correct.

It is probably: Prędzej mi kaktus na dłoni wyrośnie There is also a different one, which I know better but it seems to be used only by older people (I surely remember my mom using is when I was a child) prędzej mi tu włosy wyrosną and pointing out to own palm or descriptive version prędzej mi włosy na dłoni wyrosną

[StringerBell]

POLISH:

Finished Dolores Claiborne, tomorrow I will start a new audiobook+novel. I read the first page today just to get a sense of the writing and was surprised by how easy it felt. Let's see if I still feel that way after I start for real.

I've been slowly working on finishing the last few chapters of Dzieci z Bullerbyn; I'm about 3/4 done. I put this on the back burner for a bit when I started the other audiobooks, but I plan to finally finish this within the month.

I was surprised to find a used copy of a Polish translation of the same Diary of a Wimpy Kid book I'm currently reading in Italian. This will be the first thing that I will have read in Italian and Polish (but not English). Even though it's a kid's book, I'm considering that an important milestone.

ITALIAN:

Last night I spontaneously got excited to start writing in Italian. I don't know where it came from. I've been doing scriptorium every day for the Output challenge, but I finally felt the urge to just start writing an essay. Then I realized that it made more sense to start out slower, and just do some journal entry type writing. I always want to jump straight to the most complicated thing, so I need to remind myself to start with stuff that's more level-appropriate.

So today, I wrote a page and had my husband correct it. In the first section I made a lot of mistakes with articles, but my mistakes were relatively minor. I used a lot of reflexive verb constructions that previously eluded me, and I noticed that my writing ability now seems to be noticeably better than where it was 6 or 8 months ago, even though I've been doing no writing in that time. My husband was surprised at how many new expressions I was using, but to me it felt like the only new things I used were:
per via della... = because of...
diamo per scontato = we assume (also means: we take for granted)

When reading Diary of a Wimpy Kid (Diario di una Schiappa), when I come across something worded in a way that I want to remember, I'm trying to make a mental note of the expression and think about it throughout the day. "per via di" was one of them. I've been reading this book repeatedly, (first I read it and look up any unknown words, then I read it out loud, then I use it for scriptorium, then I read out loud some parts to get feedback from my husband, then I re-record myself reading the same sections several more times) so a lot of the phrases that I'm coming across are starting to stick in my mind. I think working like this with a relatively simple text is really beneficial.

[StringerBell]

POLISH:

I'm about 20% done with my new audiobook. I'm trying to get through it ASAP because...I hate it. It's awful. It's written really poorly (though for a language learner, this is actually a positive, since the simple, repetitive language makes for easier comprehension). I can't relate to the superficial, static characters and I'm bored to tears by the plot. It's essentially a PG-rated romance novel pretending be something deeper and more interesting. I'm trying as much as possible to focus on the language and disregard everything else. I'm not doing my usual 2/3x per chapter, this is a one and done. Maybe I'll go back later and try to mine some new vocabulary or interesting sentences.

In a Mikołaj story, I came across some useful expressions which hopefully I understand correctly:

to bujda = it's not true / it's BS
do niczego nie służy = it's good for nothing

ITALIAN:

I've written 3 "journal entries" so far. The first one was pretty good, notwithstanding about 10 or 15 article errors. I think I got a little cocky, so I tried to go out on a limb and write much more complicated sentences in the 2nd entry...which ended up being a bit of a mess. So, I decided to reign myself in and stick to simpler sentences with the 3rd try; I was able to write something that was really pretty impressive (for me). Very few errors and lots of new expressions (like: togliermi d'impiccio = to get myself out of this)

I tried something new yesterday with my writing, which worked out really well. Before I started writing, I looked through the Diary of a Wimpy Kid/Diario di una Schiappa book and jotted down about 4-5 new expressions at the top of my paper. I decided that I wanted to try to use these new expressions in my writing. In thinking about how to incorporate them, it gave me some ideas about what to write about, which is often a problem for me when I sit down to write. Another thing I did was to look back at the previous entries I wrote and choose one thing that had been corrected, then I used this correction in my new entry to try to reinforce how to write it correctly. I'm really liking this new strategy, and I'm going to try to stick with it for a while.

One of the corrections I got on my writing was really useful, and I'm going to try to use it in my next entries to cement it into my memory. I learned that often in Italian, when you use two nouns (with one being a descriptor) like: fruit trees, in general the word "da" is used instead of "di". So, fruit trees is: alberi da frutta.

From the Wimpy Kid/Schiappa book, I also learned the expression: sono a cavallo which means something like I'm all set, or I'm good. I think this translates literally to something like "I am on a horse/on horseback". I'm going to try to incorporate this one in my next few entries to see if I can use it appropriately.

[cjareck]

POLISH:
In a Mikołaj story, I came across some useful expressions which hopefully I understand correctly:

to budja = it's not true / it's BS
do niczego nie śluży = it's good for nothing

You understood it correctly, but made spelling errors. It is to bujda and do niczego nie służy. The second one literally means "it serves for nothing" - it is something that will not help by anything like "noz sluzy do krojenia" knife is for cutting. Sorry for lack of Polish diacritical marks - I do not have them here.

[StringerBell]

Thank you! I went back and corrected those mistakes in the original post. I also don't have the diacritical marks on my keyboard, I copy+paste from other sources, which takes forever!!!

[StringerBell]

I have been away for a bit, so not much to update.

Polish:

I'm 50% through my current novel + audiobook. I decided that it would be a waste to just rush through it as I'm currently doing, so today I went back to the first chapter and started looking up any verbs or expressions that I didn't know without context. I have about 8 pages worth of notes in my new notebook just from chapter 1, but that's because I'm also writing down a bunch of example sentences with those same words/expressions from Reverso Context. I'm on the fence as to whether I should put this new vocab into Anki and study it, or maybe just periodically review my notes.

Which leads to my update on Anki: I decided on a slash and burn approach. I deleted everything I had in there previously so I've got a clean slate. I know from experience that quizzing myself a little bit is really useful, but I just hate flash carding so much at this point in my life that I don't know if I can do it everyday and then suddenly there are 200 reviews waiting, even if it feels like I'm adding very little. What would probably be even more useful is to do some writing and try to incorporate some of this new vocabulary. For some reason I have a block against writing, maybe because I'm expecting to only be able to produce truly terrible sentences that would make Poles everywhere shudder. I know that's not a good reason and I'll need to overcome this at some point.

While I was away, I listened to a 30 minute Real Polish podcast on reducing sugar in one's diet (no transcript). I haven't listened to any of this podcast series (which is free on iTunes). I was surprised at how well I understood, even when there was an occasional unfamiliar word. I would like to listen to this podcast series with more regularity.

I had been watching Rodzinka.pl (I got through about 20 episodes) but then the headphone jack in my computer crapped out and the speakers on my laptop are crappy already, so the experiment of extensive TV watching is on hold for the moment.

I find myself waffling between "wow, my Polish is really impressive considering how long I've been working at it" and "I have so, so far to go I can't even imagine a light at the end of the tunnel!" I guess every language is like this to some degree, but Polish feels uniquely complex. In comparison with how much improvement I've made with Italian in the same amount of time, there's no contest...I'm light years ahead in Italian (and still so far from the light at the end of the tunnel!)

I tend to get tripped up when I've learned that a word has a certain meaning, but then I see it used with a different meaning. For example: nie dziwię się = I don't blame AND I'm not surprised or podać = to give (which I know) but then I come across "gdy podamy kawę" = when we serve coffee. I know that this exists in every language. In the beginning, I focused on one meaning of a word (which fit with how I was coming into contact with it) but then I forgot (or tried to ignore) that it has other meanings.

ITALIAN:

Out of the blue, I got weirdly interested in preparing for/taking a CILS...I think due to reading Zjones' log about preparing for the DELF. I have taken some practice C1 listening and reading exams in the past (older exams available online) and I got 80% correct on each, but I know my speaking and writing is far, far below that. I'm really out of practice with writing formal essays even in my native language, so I know I'd have to do a ton of test prep practice on top of just ironing out some longstanding grammatical issues I have been ignoring. At first I was thinking I'd start slowly preparing for a C1 exam, but then I decided that I would have a much higher chance of success if I focused on a B2 exam. I think it would take me forever to get to a C1 in writing. I read this reddit thread yesterday, and decided that I would try to read ~5 Focus Italia articles per week and write summaries of them as a way to vary my writing. I also decided I would order the Traguardo B2 CILS test prep book. I still haven't committed to taking this exam, but I think that preparing for it will help me to improve my weakest area, which is writing.

Additionally, as of Dec 2018, Italy now requires B1 certification for citizenship. I could have applied for that years ago when there was some ridiculously low requirement like A1, but it always seemed a little pointless, plus there were some other legitimate reasons why we didn't want to deal with it. Now that Europe will be requiring the equivalent of a Visa waiver program for Americans to travel to Europe (which really just takes like 10 seconds and is not a big deal; we do that for my husband's parents when they come to the U.S.) I'm a little more motivated. Plus, Zjones just really got me motivated to use the idea of taking this test as a way to improve my weak areas.

The most recent thing I picked up from the Diary of a Wimpy Kid book is that qualche (some) is followed by a singular noun. I came across this a few times and it was like nails on a blackboard every time I read it because in English, it's the opposite and I couldn't understand why a singular form of the noun would be used. For example:
qualche amico (some friends)
su qualche attrezzo (on some equipment)
qualche idiota (some idiots)

I started jotting down every example I came across in the book, and now it's like second nature and I've been using this rule when speaking. I think this is a feather in the cap of my "micro-learning" strategy.