Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby IronMike » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:58 am

Radioclare wrote:...so spent quite a lot of time travelling.

OMG! You discovered time travel?!?! Holy crap, please share!
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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby Radioclare » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:02 pm

IronMike wrote:OMG! You discovered time travel?!?! Holy crap, please share!

I wish - I'd like to time travel forward to a point where I can already speak Russian and don't have to spend all my time learning it :lol:

2 August
I worked from home today which was good generally but bad for getting language learning done.

Russian
When I'd finished work for the day I managed to get about 15 mins of Memrise while waiting for a file I'd been working on to upload onto my work network (it was a really big file!). I guess ordinarily I would have just spent this time staring at the screen and being annoyed that it wasn't uploading faster, so doing Memrise was more productive.

After dinner I read a short article about Russian rap music on the Russian Progress site and then listened to some Russian on Youtube. Listening does feel like it's getting easier, it's just everything else that is the problem :lol:

Total time = 52 minutes. Streak = 214 days
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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby Radioclare » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:27 pm

3 August
I spent most of today at an Esperanto event.

Russian
I managed to fit 6 minutes of Memrise into a small gap in the morning, but couldn't get any serious Russian studying done until I got home in the evening. Once I did, I started chapter 10 of 'Colloquial Russian', which does feel vaguely familiar so I think I did start this chapter last time around. I read through all the dialogues and texts at the start of the chapter, but gave up when I got to the start of the grammar points and realised that this chapter was about verbs of motion :lol:

Total time = 35 minutes. Streak = 215 days

Esperanto
This must have been one of the first times in years that I enjoyed speaking Esperanto :lol: I mean, I don't speak Esperanto very often these days and when I do it's at the annual Esperanto conference, which is an event that has lots of negative connotations for me. But today was quite nice :) I was sort of gatecrashing a course for intermediate speakers, but given how rusty my Esperanto feels at the moment, that didn't seem unreasonable. We had a discussion about a couple of straightforward topics (interesting facts and things we don't like about Esperanto grammar) and then did some grammar exercises which were really, really hard. The first set was about the accusative and I didn't do too badly on those. The second was on the use of "da" and it brought home to me that I've probably never even tried to learn the rules about the proper use of "da". I managed to get some of the sentences correct, but based only on instinct as to whether something sounded right or wrong rather than any actual understanding of the rules. So I definitely learned something today. Perhaps one of these days I should actually make time to read my boyfriend's Esperanto textbook :lol:

4 August
I was out of the house for most of today as well, so I didn't get as much language stuff done as I hoped. I haven't done any Bulgarian all weekend :( But I did get quite a bit of logistical planning done for my upcoming trip to Romania and Bulgaria.

Russian
I ignored Memrise today, so my reviews will be horrible tomorrow. Instead I concentrated on 'Colloquial Russian' and started making notes on verbs of motion. 34 minutes was only enough to get through about half of the grammar points so I'll have to come back to it tomorrow evening.

Total time = 34 minutes. Streak = 216 days

Croatian
I've started reading 'Pakao u Madridu', which is a Croatian translation of 'Winter in Madrid'. I read this in English years ago (at which point I'd never been to Madrid) and was really excited to get it in Croatian for Christmas. I actually wanted to read it straight away when I got it, but managed to restrain myself with the thought that it would be better to read it over the summer, ahead of going to Spain for a weekend at the end of August. That trip may no longer be happening because of airport strikes, but now still seemed like a good time to start the book :)
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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby IronMike » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:44 pm

Radioclare wrote:... So I definitely learned something today. Perhaps one of these days I should actually make time to read my boyfriend's Esperanto textbook :lol:

Yes, you should! His book is great.

Are you guys doing Paralela Universo this year?
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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby Radioclare » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:11 pm

IronMike wrote:Are you guys doing Paralela Universo this year?

No, I confess I've never even heard of this so had to google it :oops:

5 August
I had high hopes for how much work I was going to get done today, but I was thwarted by a succession of people who just wanted to ask me "quick questions" that turned out not to be quick at all.

Russian
As predicted, the Memrise reviews this morning were pretty hideous. I only got through them by using the speed review function.

On the way to the office I completed lesson 19 of Pimsleur 3. There was lots of practice of the instrumental case in this one.

This evening I finished making notes on verbs of motion from chapter 10 of 'Colloquial Russian'. Never mind mastering when to use which verb of motion, I can't even reliably remember the difference between вести and везти. I think there should be a Russian spelling rule that completely different verbs should differentiate themselves by more than one letter.

The final grammar point of the chapter was about saying "to go" when speaking about vehicles. I figured this should be a straightforward thing at least.... hahahaha, no :cry: It turns out that you use ходить/идти when you're talking about forms of transport like trains, buses, boats and trams (as the subject of a sentence). But you have to use ездить/ехать when talking about cars. The example sentences given were "Вот идёт поезд" (Here comes the train) vs "Вот едет машина" (Here comes the car). Seriously?! It is now abundantly clear to me why I never made it to chapter 11 :lol:

It probably won't surprise you to read that I didn't do the exercises on these grammar points tonight. I'm saving them as a special treat for tomorrow. Tuesdays are the worst day of the week anyway!

Total time = 68 minutes. Streak = 216 days
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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby Morgana » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:16 am

Radioclare wrote:... вести and везти. I think there should be a Russian spelling rule that completely different verbs should differentiate themselves by more than one letter.
Annnd according to Forvo they're pronounced exactly the same? Even the stress is the same?

Radioclare wrote:The final grammar point of the chapter was about saying "to go" when speaking about vehicles. I figured this should be a straightforward thing at least.... hahahaha, no :cry: It turns out that you use ходить/идти when you're talking about forms of transport like trains, buses, boats and trams (as the subject of a sentence). But you have to use ездить/ехать when talking about cars.
:shock: I'm obviously not as far along as you are but Assimil has been defining ходить/идти as going on foot/walking. I've been creating a hard boundary between travelling by foot and travelling by other means of transportation since that's what Swedish made me do :lol: Now that I've looked at Wiktionary though, I see at least for ходить that it also means trains running etc. Funny that cars require their own verb!

How do you find Colloquial by this point, aside from the language I mean. For example, I don't think they provide English translations for the dialogues and the like. You seem to be doing alright with that aspect?
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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby vonPeterhof » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:17 am

Morgana wrote:
Radioclare wrote:... вести and везти. I think there should be a Russian spelling rule that completely different verbs should differentiate themselves by more than one letter.
Annnd according to Forvo they're pronounced exactly the same? Even the stress is the same?

Only the infinitives are (pronounced) the same, the conjugations are completely different: веду/везу, вела/везла, веди/вези, etc.
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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby Teango » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:24 am

Radioclare wrote:
IronMike wrote:OMG! You discovered time travel?!?! Holy crap, please share!

I wish - I'd like to time travel forward to a point where I can already speak Russian and don't have to spend all my time learning it :lol:

Former HTLAL member Jozen-Bo was ahead of us all - behold the Mind Portal Language Project!!! :?
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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby Serpent » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:04 pm

Radioclare wrote:[The example sentences given were "Вот идёт поезд" (Here comes the train) vs "Вот едет машина" (Here comes the car). Seriously?!
These don't sound very natural to me :? If you're waiting for the train, you say Поезд пришел. If you're watching it in motion you say Поезд едет/проехал/уехал/etc. You can certainly use ехать about other vehicles than cars, just not vice versa.
At the station they say прибыл I think.

When you're waiting for a bus, I'd say Автобус пришел/приехал are interchangeable. Прибыл is formal (just like with trains) but possible, especially for long-distance buses.
I'd say a train's arrival/departure is seen as more of a process, while for smaller vehicles it's a point in time.

Also, there's an idiomatic expression Поезд ушел, which means missing out on something (can be used literally if you missed the train too)

edit: oh and Автобус едет normally means "the bus is coming/approaching". it implies it hasn't arrived to the bus stop yet. It's interchangeable with идет (unless you're a child who's excited about the speed :D)
So ultimately it's also about understanding the perfective/imperfective. I hope this gets easier when you've had more exposure to real idiomatic Russian and not textbookese translations. Hmmm you may find it helpful to compare some example sentences for Russians who are learning to use the English tenses. and note how you said it's about the word "to go" but English actually uses "here comes" which is also kinda idiomatic. ;)

What does the book say about taxi? it's fine to say Такси идет or Такси пришло about a specific taxi that's been ordered, or I guess if you're waiting at a taxi station. You say Такси едет when you're also driving (usually with a descriptor of location, speed etc), so in a context where you kinda don't care about the taxi's function as a means of transport, but just as one of the many cars on the road.

Honestly this is where it gets totally murky for me as a native speaker, and what makes me hesitant about the Colloquial series. and I think they're making this unnecessarily complicated by focusing on идти/ехать.
Now that I think of it, ходить is much more common than идти about public transport, meaning something like run on a schedule or even just connect A and B.
Здесь ходят автобусы. an instruction how to get somewhere
Здесь ездят автобусы. a warning to be careful
Здесь ходят поезда/трамваи. i can't explain why ездить is so wrong when rails are involved :oops:
Здесь проезжают трамваи. I'd say this only about a narrow street like those in Lisbon, or if the transport really passes and doesn't stop.
If you're speaking of availability you can even say Здесь ходит только такси, meaning taxi is the only way to get somewhere. (bonus: Здесь ездят/возят только частники, if there are no official taxis but only private cars :lol: )
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Re: Radioclare's 2019 log (Croatian/Russian)

Postby Radioclare » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:04 pm

Thank you everyone for the comments :)

Morgana wrote:How do you find Colloquial by this point, aside from the language I mean. For example, I don't think they provide English translations for the dialogues and the like. You seem to be doing alright with that aspect?

I like Colloquial Russian; I think it's better than some of the other Colloquial books I've tried in the past. In general I find Colloquial too hard for a first textbook (as in, too much of a steep learning curve for me if I'm a complete beginner) but I think that's because I'm not really a lover of grammar. I started with 'Teach Yourself Russian' initially, because I tend to find the TY books are pitched at a slightly lower level, and then I'm trying to use Colloquial as revision/adding more layers to my knowledge.

There are lots of dialogues and texts in the book (dialogues have audio, texts don't which is slightly annoying) and the vocab lists are pretty comprehensive, so although there are no English translations of the dialogues I don't think I've ever not been able to figure out what something means. There are plenty of exercises towards the end of each chapter, which I'm finding really useful practise at the moment, and all the answers are in the back of the book. In general the grammar is presented in a way that's fairly understandable so I feel like I'm making progress with it. I'm on a mission to finish the book as quickly as I can (which in reality is a maximum of one chapter per week!) because for last Christmas, my mom bought me the sequel (Colloquial Russian 2) and I feel like I need to have at least started working on that before next Christmas :lol:

Serpent wrote:What does the book say about taxi? it's fine to say Такси идет or Такси пришло about a specific taxi that's been ordered, or I guess if you're waiting at a taxi station. You say Такси едет when you're also driving (usually with a descriptor of location, speed etc), so in a context where you kinda don't care about the taxi's function as a means of transport, but just as one of the many cars on the road.

It doesn't mention taxis! It's only a very short part of the chapter.

Image

Thanks for all the information about transport! It feels like a bit too much for me to absorb all the nuances this evening, but I've earmarked it to come back to at a later date :)
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