Zelda's 2019 French Log

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
DaveAgain
Blue Belt
Posts: 579
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: Eng (n)
x 981

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby DaveAgain » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:37 pm

zjones wrote:This is off-topic, but I recently became aware of the social and ecological effects of the fashion industry after watching a documentary on the topic. It's the second most polluting industry in the world, with oil being the first. I already consider my purchases to fit "slow fashion" (which is the word use to describe buying few clothes that will last longer), but the higher price brands I have been purchasing from are just as guilty of the disgusting, greedy practices of the fast fashion industry. There are very few brands that follow good practices, and the ones that do tend to be extremely expensive.
I read a biog of Coco Chanel last year. One takeaway from that was that the Chanel fashion house, during Ms Chanel's post WW2 run, was essentially just there to advertise Chanel branded perfume, which was the real money-spinner. :-)
0 x

User avatar
zjones
Green Belt
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:22 pm
Location: Northwest USA
Languages: English (N), French (B1 certified)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9860
x 1252

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby zjones » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:42 am

Right after my last posts, I got two calls about interviews. I had both of them today, and the second interview took over 1h30m and involved spontaneous conversations with multiple people in the company and a tour of the warehouse. Exhausting. Do you know what the interview process reminded me of? Preparing and taking the DELF speaking exam. It felt exactly the same, just longer.

French came up in both of the interviews. I have received advice to leave French off my resume, but I chose to include it in order to differentiate myself from other applicants in my area. There is a small section on my resume that says "Languages: English (native), French (self-taught, certified B1)". So far I think it's been a good choice. During one of the interviews I was able to relate my French self-study to my knowledge of my learning style and abilities, and in the other I mentioned it in relation to learning something that is very complex and subjective. It's also proof that I'm not bullsh*tting when I say that I'm passionate about learning new things.

I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but both interviews went really well especially the super long one. If neither of these jobs work out, at least I got interview practice. :D
13 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3524
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), English (C1), French (C2), Spanish (intermediate), German (somewhere on the path), Italian (passive advanced, active basic)
x 10487

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby Cavesa » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:41 pm

That sounds great! Either you'll get one of those jobs, or an even better one, now that you're the Master of Interviews.

Out of curiosity, why on earth have you been adviced to leave French out of your resume?
It is completely weird, as a language or two are considered an awesome addition or even a must in the non anglophone countries.
It would be reasonable, if your level was really low,if you were not certified, you had too many languages there already, or knew your future boss didn't like the language for some reason, or I don't know what else. But why would you leave it out? It says only positive things about you!
1 x

User avatar
zjones
Green Belt
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:22 pm
Location: Northwest USA
Languages: English (N), French (B1 certified)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9860
x 1252

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby zjones » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:59 pm

Cavesa wrote:That sounds great! Either you'll get one of those jobs, or an even better one, now that you're the Master of Interviews.

Out of curiosity, why on earth have you been adviced to leave French out of your resume?
It is completely weird, as a language or two are considered an awesome addition or even a must in the non anglophone countries.
It would be reasonable, if your level was really low,if you were not certified, you had too many languages there already, or knew your future boss didn't like the language for some reason, or I don't know what else. But why would you leave it out? It says only positive things about you!


I have seen mixed advice given by numerous people (here) and gotten specific advice from hiring managers (reddit). Language learners are more likely to say "Put it on the resume" but from hiring managers I hear "If it doesn't apply, leave it off" and "If they don't need to know you speak a second language if you won't need to speak it on the job." I thought it was a little bizarre.

In the interview, I did get the awkward question, "So, are you fluent?" and I waffled on that question. Looking back I wish I would have just answered in French. :lol:
2 x

Online
User avatar
rdearman
Site Admin
Posts: 4868
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Languages: English (N)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1836
x 11744
Contact:

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby rdearman » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:31 pm

zjones wrote:In the interview, I did get the awkward question, "So, are you fluent?" and I waffled on that question

Next time just say "Try me."
2 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Brown Belt
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: usa
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 1772

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:10 pm

zjones wrote:
Cavesa wrote:That sounds great! Either you'll get one of those jobs, or an even better one, now that you're the Master of Interviews.

Out of curiosity, why on earth have you been adviced to leave French out of your resume?
It is completely weird, as a language or two are considered an awesome addition or even a must in the non anglophone countries.
It would be reasonable, if your level was really low,if you were not certified, you had too many languages there already, or knew your future boss didn't like the language for some reason, or I don't know what else. But why would you leave it out? It says only positive things about you!


I have seen mixed advice given by numerous people (here) and gotten specific advice from hiring managers (reddit). Language learners are more likely to say "Put it on the resume" but from hiring managers I hear "If it doesn't apply, leave it off" and "If they don't need to know you speak a second language if you won't need to speak it on the job." I thought it was a little bizarre.

In the interview, I did get the awkward question, "So, are you fluent?" and I waffled on that question. Looking back I wish I would have just answered in French. :lol:

There are two reasons not to put French on your resume: one benign, one not.
1. Benign. If hiring managers see you put an irrelevant skill on your resume, they may conclude you can't focus.
2. Not benign. Xenophobia spreads wide and runs deep on these shores. If French is on your resume, you will have enemies your first day on the job, you won't know who they are, and you run the risk of having your work sabotaged from day one. Oh, yes.

If you get the job and like the job, feel things out first and then bring up French if it seems right or useful.
0 x
Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.

Cavesa
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3524
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), English (C1), French (C2), Spanish (intermediate), German (somewhere on the path), Italian (passive advanced, active basic)
x 10487

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby Cavesa » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:46 am

zjones wrote:I have seen mixed advice given by numerous people (here) and gotten specific advice from hiring managers (reddit). Language learners are more likely to say "Put it on the resume" but from hiring managers I hear "If it doesn't apply, leave it off" and "If they don't need to know you speak a second language if you won't need to speak it on the job." I thought it was a little bizarre.

In the interview, I did get the awkward question, "So, are you fluent?" and I waffled on that question. Looking back I wish I would have just answered in French. :lol:


This just shows how the US and Europe are different (and how I would really get a nasty cultural shock, if I tried to move there out of my beloved Europe). Here, any hiring manager will tell you to put the languages there! It makes the impression that you are an educated person, it shows a useful skill (even if the second foreign language is not exactly demanded) that the employer may or may not use, and sets you apart from other candidates. But sure, putting in the whole list of languages with low levels is not recommendable.

Yes, you should have probably answered in French, that is one of the lessons one acquires only with experience :-D Hmm, perhaps we should have a thread with ideas for answers to some common questions like this.

MorkTheFiddle wrote:There are two reasons not to put French on your resume: one benign, one not.
1. Benign. If hiring managers see you put an irrelevant skill on your resume, they may conclude you can't focus.
2. Not benign. Xenophobia spreads wide and runs deep on these shores. If French is on your resume, you will have enemies your first day on the job, you won't know who they are, and you run the risk of having your work sabotaged from day one. Oh, yes.

If you get the job and like the job, feel things out first and then bring up French if it seems right or useful.


Again, it is really fascinating to see the differences! Sad, but fascinating

The languages are basically taken as relevant to everything in Europe, not a sign of not focusing (unless you list ten languages, I'd say). Sure, you shouldn't get into talking about them too much (hehe, happened to me, another thing for the "needed answers" list), but leaving them out makes as much sense as hiding you've got both hands and legs.

Here, you get the part Languages in every model CV and you hear the companies and HR complaining about too few languages (at a good level, which in many cases means B1 and better). Perhaps the UK may be different, but not the rest. So, leaving the languages out is a mistake in most cases, and lying you're monolingual would be really weird. Even if you left the languages out and still managed to get to the interview (as the languages are taken as an easy way to throw a part of the CVs to the bin without further work, whether the foreign English is actually needed for the job or not), you'd be asked about them (and quite possibly in the language, if it is a common one like German for example).

I totally get it, that a person might want to hide certain languages in certain situations. But it just looks completely unreal that xenophobia could target French as something wrong. You know, the French are basically the definition of our culture and race, a part of the roots of the whole euroamerican world. So, how anyone see French (German, Italian, Dutch,Swedish...) as something "xeno" is beyond my imagination. But people being xenophobe a-holes in general, that is of course the sad reality.

Thanks to both of you for an explanation!
2 x

User avatar
MamaPata
Brown Belt
Posts: 1007
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:25 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), French (C1*), Russian (B1), Spanish (B1).

Long lost: Arabic and Latin.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3004
x 1749

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby MamaPata » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:38 pm

Here, you get the part Languages in every model CV and you hear the companies and HR complaining about too few languages (at a good level, which in many cases means B1 and better). Perhaps the UK may be different, but not the rest. So, leaving the languages out is a mistake in most cases, and lying you're monolingual would be really weird. Even if you left the languages out and still managed to get to the interview (as the languages are taken as an easy way to throw a part of the CVs to the bin without further work, whether the foreign English is actually needed for the job or not), you'd be asked about them (and quite possibly in the language, if it is a common one like German for example).


Yeah, it's definitely different in the UK. I don't think people would go as far as to say to take them out, but when you apply for something, you're advised to literally find each line of the person specification in the job description and respond to that. So if you then needed to get your CV down to a page or two pages, if languages weren't relevant, they might be lost. It's an interesting topic.
2 x
Corrections appreciated.

Cenwalh
Orange Belt
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:14 am
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Spanish (acquiring).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12467
x 333

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby Cenwalh » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:08 pm

MamaPata wrote:
Here, you get the part Languages in every model CV and you hear the companies and HR complaining about too few languages (at a good level, which in many cases means B1 and better). Perhaps the UK may be different, but not the rest. So, leaving the languages out is a mistake in most cases, and lying you're monolingual would be really weird. Even if you left the languages out and still managed to get to the interview (as the languages are taken as an easy way to throw a part of the CVs to the bin without further work, whether the foreign English is actually needed for the job or not), you'd be asked about them (and quite possibly in the language, if it is a common one like German for example).


Yeah, it's definitely different in the UK. I don't think people would go as far as to say to take them out, but when you apply for something, you're advised to literally find each line of the person specification in the job description and respond to that. So if you then needed to get your CV down to a page or two pages, if languages weren't relevant, they might be lost. It's an interesting topic.


I'm not sure whether I agree or not. It might be something I put right at the bottom, but only if I were able to use it in a professional capacity.
0 x
1,000,000 sentences of Spanish: 390000 / 1000000

User avatar
MamaPata
Brown Belt
Posts: 1007
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:25 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), French (C1*), Russian (B1), Spanish (B1).

Long lost: Arabic and Latin.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3004
x 1749

Re: Zelda's 2019 French Log

Postby MamaPata » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:10 pm

Cenwalh wrote:
MamaPata wrote:
Here, you get the part Languages in every model CV and you hear the companies and HR complaining about too few languages (at a good level, which in many cases means B1 and better). Perhaps the UK may be different, but not the rest. So, leaving the languages out is a mistake in most cases, and lying you're monolingual would be really weird. Even if you left the languages out and still managed to get to the interview (as the languages are taken as an easy way to throw a part of the CVs to the bin without further work, whether the foreign English is actually needed for the job or not), you'd be asked about them (and quite possibly in the language, if it is a common one like German for example).


Yeah, it's definitely different in the UK. I don't think people would go as far as to say to take them out, but when you apply for something, you're advised to literally find each line of the person specification in the job description and respond to that. So if you then needed to get your CV down to a page or two pages, if languages weren't relevant, they might be lost. It's an interesting topic.


I'm not sure whether I agree or not. It might be something I put right at the bottom, but only if I were able to use it in a professional capacity.


Is that not basically what I have said? If it was relevant, you'd put it in at the top, but you definitely don't have to keep it in in the way that Cavesa was talking about. I kept mine in because it's relevant to the jobs I've been applying to. If it wasn't relevant, it would have gone to the bottom, or if I had other experience I wanted to fit on and I was running out of space, I might not have put it in.
2 x
Corrections appreciated.


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ice Blue and 2 guests