Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019 -- now with Polish!!

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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby Mista » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:40 am

I don't know what you are ashamed about. When I sat down to write some French today, i ended up with 36 words. :lol:

Brun Ugle wrote:Norsk
De siste årene har jeg virkelig begynt å skamme meg over norsken min. En stor del av problemet er at jeg aldri har lært det ordentlig. Før jeg kom til Norge, brukte jeg Teach Yourself og noen andre vanlige lærebøker som fantes den gang i USA. Jeg mente at norsk var kjempelett. Og sammenlignet med japansk, så var det det. Men så flyttet jeg til Høylandet i Nord-Trøndelag og skjønte ingenting. Egentlig, ville jeg ikke ha vært i stand til å forstå selv rent bokmål så veldig godt på det tidspunktet siden jeg nesten aldri hadde nesten aldri hørt språket. Internettet var ikke så utbredt og jeg hadde ikke de samme mulighetene som i dag til å se utenlandske fjernsynsprogram. Uansett, ble jeg veldig demotivert. Dialekten var vanskelig fordi det ikke fantes ikke lærebøker for å lære den og selv nordmenn kan ha vanskelig for å forstå den. Jeg skulle få et norskkurs, men jeg var den eneste utlendingen i området (hvis man ikke teller med svensker og sånne) og de hadde ingen norsklærer. De fant ei bondekone til å være læreren min, men hun visste ikke hvordan hun skulle lære bort et språk og i tillegg var hun fra Nordlandet Nord-Norge (eller Nordland) og kunne ikke hjelpe meg med dialekten i det hele tatt. Og det var dialekten som jeg slet med. Jeg kunne bokmål, i hvert fall skriftlig, allerede rimelig godt. Siden hun ikke visste så godt hva hun skulle gjøre med meg, insisterte hun på å begynne fra begynnelsen i læreboka og jeg måtte sitte og lese dialoger med «Jeg heter…..» og «Hvordan har du det?». Det var gørr kjedelig og til slutt ga jeg opp og prøvde å lære alt på egen hånd. Men jeg var da (blitt) demotivert og hadde egentlig fått nok av norsk. Jeg greidde til slutt å tilegne meg språket gjennom å være her i landet, snakke med folk og spesielt ved å lese tegneserier. Etter et par år tok jeg språkprøven og fikk høy poengsum, som angivelig skal angivelig tilsvare C1. Senere studerte jeg økonomi og måtte skrive haugevis med oppgaver, spesielt om rettslære, men også om markedsføring, organisasjon og ledelse (bedre kjent som ork og lidelse), osv. Da ble norsken min ganske bra, men fortsatt ikke «elegant». I hvert fall, det var (det var i hvert fall) det skatterettslæreren sa til meg da jeg nevnte at jeg bestandig fikk bestandig A i alle «regnefag», men B i alle «skrivefag». Han sa at jeg oppbelyste problemstillingen bra og tok opp alle viktige punkter, viste til riktige paragrafene de riktige paragrafene (eller: riktige paragrafer) i lovene og forskriftene, og at drøftelsen og konklusjon bestandig var bestandig riktig, men jeg skrev ikke elegant nok.

Det var mens jeg studerte at norsken min nådde sitt høydepunkt. Siden føler jeg at den har gått nedover. Jeg har egentlig ganske lite kontakt med nordmenn. Forhåpentligvis kan jeg begynne å ta lange turer med en venninne igjen, nå som ryggen min er blitt litt bedre. Hun er blind og veldig snakkesalig. Hun har alltid tusen ting å fortelle meg og er flink til å få meg til å snakke òg. Og siden hun er blind, må jeg beskrive ting i stor detalj. Det går ikke an å bare peke eller gestikulere.

Jeg har også lyst til å lese og skrive mer. Jeg må gjøre et forsøk på å utvide ordforrådet litt, pusse på uttalen (den skal være rimelig bra, etter det jeg har hørt, men jeg vil at den skal være bedre), pusse på dialekten (det virker som om jeg snakker mer bokmål og mindre dialekt over tid og det var ikke det jeg ville), og pusse på grammatikken (det er mye jeg bare har bare plukket opp uten å ha studerte det og det gjør meg veldig usikker på ting som enkelt v dobbelt bestemt form og andre små detaljer). Ja, det er mye å pusse på. Det største problemet, er at jeg vanligvis ikke greier vanligvis ikke å glemme at jeg er utlending. Jeg har hatt den erfaring at noen har trodde at jeg var norsk i noen minutter, men det er sjelden og skjer bare når jeg er veldig avslappet. Og i senere tid, har jeg blitt mer usikker og derfor mindre avslappet når jeg snakker. Og da går det galt. Jeg håper at en liten oppfriskning vil gi meg litt mer selvtillit.

Målene for året blir å komme meg gjennom to grammatikkbøker, en for utlendinger skrevet på engelsk og den andre på norsk og skrevet for nordmenn. Jeg skal også lese noen bøker og skrive litt her og i dagboka mi. (Et annet av nyttårsforsettene mine er å skrive dagbok igjen.)


There are two mistakes you do repeatedly in this text:

1. Comma between the first element of the sentence and the verb. The question to keep in mind is whether the element you have in front of a comma is syntactically a part of the sentence or not. The verb should always hold the second position, so you can say "Uansett, jeg ble veldig demotivert", where the subject follows and then the verb, and you can say "Uansett ble jeg veldig ddemotivert", but in this case the "uansett" has pushed the subject to the position after the verb, which means it is syntactically a part of the sentence, so you can't use a comma.

2. The position of sentence adverbials in subordinate clauses. In main clauses, sentence adverbials come immediately after the finite verb, so you would say, for example, "Jeg fikk bestandig A", or using a compound verb, "Jeg har bestandig fått A". But in subordinate clauses, it comes before the verb, as in "Jeg sa at jeg bestandig fikk A".
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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby Brun Ugle » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:37 am

Thanks, Mista! The comma rule I didn’t even know, because as I said, I never learned Norwegian beyond the very basics in Teach Yourself. The other rule I did sort of know and I actually corrected it a few places, but obviously, I missed it a lot more often than I fixed it. It’s really hard to correct my own Norwegian and I’ve never had anyone to correct me before, so thank you very much for pointing out my errors. Now, I know the most important points I need to work on for next time. Maybe this will be the year I finally polish up my Norwegian and make it pretty.
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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby Brun Ugle » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:50 pm

Spoonary wrote:Now, I obviously can't read Norwegian, but I just wanted to pop in and tell you that I am proud of you for sharing a post in Norwegian, if you are, as you say, embarrassed by it. The only way is up from here :)

I'm really glad I swallowed my pride and did it. Now, I have a much clearer idea of what I should work on first. I'm looking forward to whipping my Norwegian into shape.
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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby Brun Ugle » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:53 pm

Now for part three of my introduction... It was going to be in and about Spanish, since that is my third best language, but that’s the only part of the introduction I haven’t written yet and I don’t think I can manage it today. So, it’s going to be about Japanese, but written in English. Unfortunately, I wrote it quickly, thinking I would polish it up before posting, but I’m not really up to it, so you get the first draft.

I seem to have started this year on the wrong foot or something because I’m very clumsy and my brain isn’t functioning. I’ve been like this since the 1st. I hope it’s just a virus or something I ate and will go away soon. It’s really annoying. I keep getting my Anki cards wrong, I’ve been dropping things, I’ve walked into doors because I somehow forgot to open them first (Not even glass doors. Wooden doors!). So, like I mentioned in my first post, I need to do activities that don’t require much brain power. So, I think I will give up on the Anki, FSI, and grammar and just watch TV for the rest of today.

日本語
I’m not going to even try to write in Japanese just yet. I’ve forgotten too much to even attempt it and I was never that great at writing or speaking anyway. Japanese and I have a difficult history. I started learning it about 25 years ago, when I was twenty years old and had a Japanese boyfriend. At that time, I had no idea how to learn a language and didn’t really get that far. Since then, I’ve picked it up and dropped it again many times. The last time was in 2011, I think, and I eventually got good enough to make it through the entire Harry Potter series, but it took me ages and I really struggled with the last few books. I ended up reading them mostly in parallel with the English versions as I recall. I also managed to watch a couple of series and sort of half-way understand them, but my listening comprehension was never that great. That was before I finally learned Spanish and, in the process, learned how to listen. It worked with Spanish because 1) Spanish is more transparent for an English speaker. That can’t be denied. 2) I’d managed to get to an intermediate level of Spanish, so I had some hope of being able to understand a TV series. I’ve made it to that level in Japanese before though, so it should be a problem to hit intermediate again. 3) I found an extremely addictive series without any subtitles available that was simple enough for me to follow. 4) I technically had a bit of listening practice because of Destinos, Extr@ and Notes in Spanish Intermediate. What does this mean for my current attempt at Japanese? Well, I can’t do anything about 1. Japanese is not going to turn into a level 1 language. I’ve achieved 2 before, so I can do it again. For early listening practice there’s Erin’s Challenge, I suppose, and maybe my readers can suggest some other low-level videos or podcasts, all in Japanese, but simple and not too boring. A podcast like Notes in Spanish Intermediate would be nice. The other difficulty is finding something interesting to watch that is easily available to me. That’s another difficulty of Japanese. Spanish media seems so much more easily available on the net. Of course, part of it is that it’s easier to find your way around a Spanish website with a basic level of Spanish than to navigate a Japanese website with a basic level of Japanese.

I don’t have any big plans for Japanese. I’ve been trying and failing to restart it for years, so I’m just happy that I’ve finally gotten back in the habit of doing something, anything, with the language on a near daily basis. I hope to run through RTK again, and make it through the Core 6000 Anki deck. I will probably also continue with Glossika and slowly pluck away at my old textbook, which is in tatters after so many attempts. I’d like to try to do fairly regular listening, but I still haven’t found something that appeals to me and is at a good level.
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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby rdearman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:19 pm

What is the next part about? French?
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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby SGP » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:55 am

Brun Ugle wrote:So, it’s going to be about Japanese, but written in English. Unfortunately, I wrote it quickly, thinking I would polish it up before posting, but I’m not really up to it, so you get the first draft.
I can definitely relate. It keeps me puzzling why Nihongo is my only at-least-A1 language that I still can't express myself too clearly in. This could simply be about the Language Family Distance. But it seems like there is more to it, too. Could it be something unique to Japanese and Japan because of the long isolated isle past (relatively speaking)?

And by the way, you have been featured at "you know you're a language nerd when...".
Direct link.
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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby Brun Ugle » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:18 pm

Part 4. My brain still isn’t working, but I at least managed to write something. I can’t believe how far behind I am on the Output Challenge already though. What a time for my brain to go on strike!

Español
Mi español ha mejorado mucho en los últimos años, pero no tan rápido como yo había creído que iba a mejorar cuando empecé a estudiarlo otra vez en 2015. Ahora puedo ver series de televisión casi sin problemas, así que puedo disfrutar del idioma. Puedo leer también, pero no tan rápido como querría y algunos libros son todavía difíciles al principio. Cuando empiezo un libro de un autor que no he leído antes, me cuesta mucho leer los primeros 20 páginas, pero se mejora usualmente después de un capítulo o dos.

Ahora, lo más difícil es hablar y escribir. Por eso voy a participar otra vez en el reto de producción. Cuando me apunté, pensaba que no sería tan difícil cumplirlo este año, pero ahora no estoy tan segura. Mi mente está tan torpe estos últimos días. Creo que he dejado mi cerebro atrás en 2018, porque podía pensar el 31 de diciembre, pero desde entonces, no.

Bueno, si encuentro mi cerebro, mis metas para este año serán: Leer mucho (lo suficiente para terminar 100 “libros” en el SC) y terminar el reto de producción. Tengo la GdUdE C1/C2, pero voy a esperar un poco más. Este año voy a seguir asimilando el idioma relajadamente y tratando de mejorar mi fluidez.
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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby rdearman » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:27 pm

So Part 5 is French?
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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby Morgana » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:14 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:... and maybe my readers can suggest some other low-level videos or podcasts, all in Japanese, but simple and not too boring.

I have no idea if this would be appropriate practice listening material:

Benjiro - Japanese Conversations. "Long-form listening practice for beginners. Some easier, some harder."
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChBBWt ... LSOh_aPt2Q
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Re: Brun Ugle の mehrsprachige bitácora (NO, ES, DE, JA) 2019

Postby devilyoudont » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:14 am

Polar Bear Cafe is an anime that I think is probably reasonably understandable for a beginner.
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