Morgana's log

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Bex
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Re: Morgana's log

Postby Bex » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:43 am

Interesting, I hope your musings are correct, my concern is that I still am not a person who normally reads in any language, and so it's not something I will continue long term.

Finding reading material to consume has been a real problem for me so after I complete the SC I'm going to try and recreate the effect with listening/watching since I'll happily spend hours on YouTube and Netflix. I'm hoping to get to a point where I can consume and not decode with media I actually want to spend time with.

Oh and please feel free to post whatever you like on my log, it would make my log way more interesting ;)
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Re: Morgana's log (SV, RU)

Postby Cèid Donn » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:01 pm

Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar with claims of mutual intelligibility across the Danish/Norwegian/Swedish continuum--and I think Lang Focus or another You Tube channel like that made a video not long ago examining this--but years back, I was encouraged to go with Swedish by both native Swedish and Norwegian speakers, which is why I have so far. The main reasons were, as you mention, how Swedish has more media available and a larger speaking population. Not being someone who had any real plans to visit either Sweden or Norway, I had to consider how I might be able to use the language outside of their respective countries. Granted, I kind of fell into learning Swedish via gaming and music circles during an earlier time in my life, but the whole "which can I use more?" approach is what has encouraged me to stick with Swedish over the years, at least to the point I can talk on Discourse with Swedish gamers with less of a language barrier between us or follow a Swedish Twitch streamer as they flip back and forth between Swedish and English.

The situation with the Gaelic languages (Manx, Irish and Scottish) is similar in that people will say there is high mutual intelligibility among the three, but in my experience, it's way more complicated than that. From what I have experienced, yes, if you know one, you can kind of following someone speaking in one of the other two, but do not expect to turn around and be able to read or write in those languages without making an effort to learn vital differences in grammar and orthography. I have seen some misguided people try to write in one Gaelic language while relying on their knowledge of the orthography and grammar on another, thinking that would be intelligible. Heh.

As for your point about exposure adding to intelligibility and ease of learning, I think that's a very important point to make. I make a similar point with people who claim the Scots language (which is distinct from Scottish English) is just another dialect of English is that intelligibility of Scots for an English speaker drops significantly with English speakers who have no prior exposure to it, like North American speakers, and even more so with L2 speakers. I mean, I've been studying Scottish Gaelic for over a decade now and despite that leading to me being exposed a lot of Scottish English over that time, I still need a Scots-English dictionary (and yes, I do own one!) to make sense of one of Robbie Burns' Scots poems. But for someone who grew up the UK where they might be exposed to Scots regularly throughout their lives, I'm sure reading Burns in Scots would be a less foreign experience for them.

Anyhow, I kind of wonder about this from time to time because outside of music and gaming, being a Swedish learner often feels a bit lonely. Swedish hasn't been a high priority for me since I joined this forum, so I haven't really interacted with other Swedish learners here, but over the years, with engaging in various language learning circles, there has seemed to me to be a little more excitement over Norwegian than Swedish and sometimes I feel like I missing out on sometime there. Or maybe i feel that Swedish is little underappreciated, which might be because I personally find Swedish very charming myself despite the pragmatism behind my justifications for learning it. :D
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Re: Morgana's log (SV, RU)

Postby DaveAgain » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:03 pm

Cèid Donn wrote:As for your point about exposure adding to intelligibility and ease of learning, I think that's a very important point to make. I make a similar point with people who claim the Scots language (which is distinct from Scottish English) is just another dialect of English is that intelligibility of Scots for an English speaker drops significantly with English speakers who have no prior exposure to it, like North American speakers, and even more so with L2 speakers. I mean, I've been studying Scottish Gaelic for over a decade now and despite that leading to me being exposed a lot of Scottish English over that time, I still need a Scots-English dictionary (and yes, I do own one!) to make sense of one of Robbie Burns' Scots poems. But for someone who grew up the UK where they might be exposed to Scots regularly throughout their lives, I'm sure reading Burns in Scots would be a less foreign experience for them.
There was a scottish sitcom on UK TV some years ago that was pretty difficult to understand at times, Rab C Nesbitt, but being difficult for non-glaswegians to understand was part of the gag.

There's a short story series by George MacDonald Fraser called the MacAuslan stories (sold as a collected omnibus edition or three smaller paperbacks) set in a fictional scottish regiment shortly after WW2 that has a lot of phonetic spelling and scottish/army slang. If I remember correctly the UK publisher included a glossary at the back.
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Re: Morgana's log (SV, RU)

Postby Xenops » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:00 am

At this point I wonder if it's more "natural" for our attention to wander, than for us to focus on one thing. :? It's a challenge to stay dedicated to one or two things. You should applaud yourself for your progress in Swedish.

It could be that wanderlusting isn't terrible in itself--if you're having fun while doing it, why not? It's more educational than other things you could be doing.
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Re: Morgana's log (SV, RU)

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:39 pm

Morgana wrote:I do not enjoy the learning stage of any language, which makes language learning probably a stupid hobby for me to take on, but here I am. It helps when I see a point to all the struggling, to see that it's going somewhere, that at some point I'm going to have fun, that I'll care about it, that having it in my life is going to bring me things or experiences I don't have already. I mean, just about any language could potentially do all of the above, of course. But the other key component for me is caring from the start, ie. being interested. There are not so many languages that do that for me. It took me most of this year to accept that, to accept that I just wasn't up for learning several languages like so many here do. And that's fine. If you're one of the (maybe?) few learners who has managed to hold out from wanderlust while participating on the forum, congratulations ;) I definitely got sucked in. I'm going to do my best to keep my head clear in this regard from here forward, watch out and quash any simmering wanderlust.

The beginning stages of learning a language do not appeal to me, either, and I marvel at members here who seem to bask in the process. Bad luck for me to run into Ancient Greek, whose beginning stages take a whole lifetime. :D
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Re: Morgana's log (SV, RU)

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:29 am

Morgana wrote:I have one episode left of the first season in my SVT series, and sh*t did they leave a cliffhanger at the end of this last episode. It was also nice because I was having a better listening day, and even managed to notice a couple of words I repeatedly run into problems with during Anki reviews, like förse. Maybe I'll get that one right from now on :D

I have way too much to watch now in Swedish; it's an unexpected but welcome problem to have. Not only do I plan to re-watch my current series, but there is another series with multiple seasons on SVT right now, plus several other films and specials/documentaries that seem interesting.


What SVT series are you watching right now?
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Re: Morgana's log (SV, RU)

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:52 pm

Morgana wrote:Innan vi dör. I really enjoyed the first season. Haven't started the second yet. It had so many actors I was familiar with which I am really starting to love about Swedish dramas, as if they are all coming along and supporting me on my journey from mediocre Swedish comprehension to slightly less mediocre Swedish comprehension :lol:


Agreed, that was a good one. I've recently started watching the second season. I also enjoyed Vår tid är nu - the third season started last week.
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Re: Morgana's log (SV, RU)

Postby cjareck » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:26 pm

Morgana wrote: Maybe the Assimil approach just works best with languages closer to one's native language.

I heard that on one Polish blog about language learning. Since I plan to start Assimil Chinese next year, I will verify your assumption.
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Re: Morgana's log (SV, RU)

Postby cjareck » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:31 am

Morgana wrote: Debating whether it's worthwhile to painstakingly go through nearly 3,000 Anki cards to correct them...

Well, you may treat it as an additional review and spent some extra time to do it. The other way is to correct all the cards that you review. I prepare cards massively, so there are always some errors. Since I review them on my smartphone, editing them is not an easy task. I just write something like ERROR, and then I look for all cards with that word on the computer and correct them there.
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Re: Morgana's log (SV, RU)

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:16 pm

Morgana wrote:I was going to ask if anyone knew if one of the actors in Den fördömde, Tomas Laustiola, was finlandssvensk, but then I googled him myself and Wikipedia says he's a "sverigefinsk skådespelare" (among other things; it goes on to say his mother was a Finnish dancer) so I think that answers my question? I swear I could hear a bit of a finlandssvensk accent listening to him. IMDB just says he was born in Göteborg, so I googled a little further to find the other info. I guess if any Swedes want to chime in with what he sounds like to you, go right ahead.


Oh, finlandssvensk vs. sverigefinsk - I'd definitely say that Tomas Laustiola's accent is finlandssvensk - simply because that's how finlandssvenska sounds. He does have a acute / grave accent distiction though, which is rather rare among finlandssvenskar. It seems he moved to Finland as a two-year old, and then moved back to Sweden later in life.

As the youtuber says, there are different accents of finlandssvenska, and she has what I (and probably many others) regard as standard. Mark Levengood (also mentioned) speaks in a similar way. Actress Stina Ekblad does not (she is from Österbotten). Actor Antti Reini does not (he was born in Helsinki, but doesn't sound like that when speaking Swedish).

Hope this helps.
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