Purangi's Log

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Purangi
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby Purangi » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:22 am

El viaje a Vietnam, Da Nang, fue realmente una experiencia muy buena y relajante, une pausa de descanso bien merecida, aunque también he tenido algunas oportunidades para chatear en lenguas extranjeras. Curiosamente, no he hablado en el idioma vietnamita, y tampoco en inglés, pero en chino y coreano.

Hay que saber que hay una cantidad fenomenal de turistas coreanos in Da Nang. Algunos coreanos incluso bromean que Da Nang se parece en realidad más a una ciudad coreana, y la llaman “Da Nang, Gyeonggi-do.”

Muchos de los restaurantes más famosos (y con comida muy deliciosa) tienen menús en coreano. La gente en los hoteles, restaurantes y tiendas hablan coreano o chino. No he hablado mucho coreano allá, porque creo que mi nivel todavía no es tan alto para hacerlo bien, pero he tenido conversaciones muy interesantes sobre el conflicto territorial en la Mar de la China Meridional y la “Línea de los nueve puntos” con empleados en el hotel donde me quedé. Diré sólo que ellos no eran muy entusiastas con los turistas chinos en Da Nang, aunque curiosamente, ellos estaban hablando muy bien en mandarín durante toda la conversación.

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Estoy escuchando la nueva serie coreana que se llama사랑의 불시착 o Crash Landing on You. La historia está amena y me gusta la manera por la cual el autor compara y contrasta las diferencias entre los coreanos del sur et los del norte. Es disponible en Netflix, aunque lo escucho en Internet gratis con subtítulos chinos. Hay muchos momentos graciosos. El único problema es el dialecto norcoreano, que no es ningún problema para mi esposa, pero yo no entiendo la mitad de lo que dicen ellos. Aunque no entiendo la mayor parte de lo que está pasando, pero con lo que entiendo, ya puedo disfrutar de la serie con más profundidad y placer, y eso no es nada malo. De verdad, disfrutar de la lengua usándola es lo más importante de todo, quizás.



He realizado algo interesante: cuando escucho y leo los subtítulos al mismo tiempo, no entiendo mucho el coreano. Pero cuando escucho primero lo que dicen, y sólo después leo los subtítulos, mi comprensión se pone muchísimo mejora. En general, estoy a un punto muy interesante en mi estudio: tengo la sensación de progresar, y no hay ninguna dubitación que estoy mejorándome, pero también siempre me falta algo de vocabulario, algo de gramática, algo de comprensión oral para verdaderamente entender qué diablos está pasando. Hay muchas veces que entiendo todas las palabras menos una. Hay otras veces cuando entiendo todo menos la partícula gramatical final, y otras veces cuando entiendo nada menos la partícula final. Es un mezclado de frustración (con mi incapacidad de avanzar más rápido) y de satisfacción (con lo que he logrado hasta ahora).

En las últimas semanas, he tratado de no estudiar nada de nuevo. Solamente he revisado lo que ya he aprendido. Y a decir verdad, creo que fue un algo como un error por mi parte. No sé lo que pensaba cuando tomé la decisión de hacer un mes de revisión solamente, pero no fue une idea de genio.

En total, escuché 28 horas de coreano, incluso 14 horas de Glossika, 5.5 horas de TTMIK vocabulario, 6.5 horas de podcasts, y 2 horas de YouTube. El problema es que después de todo y a pesar de mis esfuerzos, todavía no entiendo todo. Hay palabras que todavía no entiendo y estructuras gramáticas que no puedo usar. ¿Es realmente útil escuchar lo mismo podcast 5, 10 o 15 veces? No lo sé, realmente. Al final no sé si estoy entiendo lo que dicen, o simplemente si estoy recordando lo que dicen. Y es también muchísimo aburrido. Es mejor tratar de explorar nuevos materiales/cursos y esperar que los viejos podcasts ya están olvidados antes de volver atrás y revisarlos.

Pero no fue un desastre total: también he logrado parte de mi objetivo con respecto al vocabulario. Tengo 2232 cartas de vocabulario. Ahora, 110 de estas cartas todavía me ponen problema. Simplemente no puedo recordarlas. Lo bueno es que 862 de las caras ya son fácil, puedo las traducir (del coreano al francés) sin problema. Y 1260 de las palabras ya son “aprendidas,” es decir que puedo las traducir del francés/inglés al coreano y usarlas en mis conversaciones sin mayor problema. Esto está cerca de 56%, bastante lejos de mi meta antes de empezar esa experiencia.

También revisé las 2000 primeras frases en Glossika y constaté que todavía no entiendo alrededor de 400 frases a la primera escucha, es decir 21%. También podría decir que ya he asimilado 79% del todo, que es lo mismo. Después de tanto tiempo pasado a revisar, no sé si este número es un éxito o un fracaso. He insolado las 400 frases que me ponen problema en un MP3 único de 43 minutos que voy a revisar otra y otra vez. Tengo que resolver correctamente y de manera permanente ese problema de esas frases-sanguijuelas.

Espero con entusiasmo mi retorno para empezar las 1000 últimas frases y finalizar ese proyecto. Es muy interesante que he logrado mantener mi motivación con Glossika hasta ahora, aunque a hablar con honestidad, la he perdido durante algunas semanas antes. En general, a pesar de todos sus problemas, estoy generalmente muy contento con el curso.

He logrado leer mí primero artículo totalmente en coreano en Global Voices. Aunque es un pasito muy pequeño no más, estoy muchísimo contento de haber podido hacerlo: se trata de un muro psicológico que se rompió, y ahora tengo el camino abierto en frente de mí. He leído aquí un post de alguien que decía que en lugar de fijarse metas demasiado alejas y grandes, más importante (y mejor para la motivación) fijarse y lograr pequeñas metas, del tipo que podemos lograr en dos días o una semana. Estoy totalmente en acuerdo. Voy aprender a leer en coreano, cuesta lo que sea, paso a paso.

Desde entonces empiezo a leer artículos sólo en coreano en Kids Dong-A — la versión simplificada para jóvenes del diario Dong-A Ilbo. El estilo es más sencillo que en los artículos para adultos, sin embargo el contenido y las temáticas son muy interesantes. Leí artículos, entre otros, sobre las peleas de gallos en Puerto Rico y sobre el envío de buques de guerra coreanas en la zona marítima al sur de Irán. Ya que sé que puedo leer con relativa facilidad y fluidez artículos sencillos, ahora debo leer más y poco a poco hacer la transición hasta artículos para hablantes nativos.

También descubrí otro recurso para leer con textos paralelos bilingües: Humans of Seoul. Me parece que es un proyecto inspirado de Nueva York. En todo caso, la página presenta algunas historias interesantes de gente de Seúl con traducción al inglés. Desafortunadamente al momento no veo ningún material audio o video.

Hay mucho, mucho contenido coreano en YouTube, mucho más que nunca podría ver todo lo que hay, pero no hay muchas cosas con subtítulos exactos en coreano (y no sólo con subtítulos automáticos de YouTube). Felizmente hay un canal muy bien en YouTube que se llama콬TV, es decir KOK (King Of Korean Drama). Creo que se trata de una pequeña compañía de producción cinematográfica que hace sus propias series cortas y las difunde en la aplicación vLive, con historias muy banales y no muy originales. Pero lo más importante es que muchas de los episodios tienen subtítulos en coreano e inglés. Acabo de terminar la serie llamada Wish Woosh (우웅우웅) – una historia romántica entre trabajadores de oficina. Hay que notar que usan muchas palabras de tipo slang y populares mientras los jóvenes, lo que pode estar también muy interesante para estudiantes. 강추!



Originalmente no tenía planos para empezar ningún nuevo curso el mes pasado, pero vi que la totalidad del curso de coreano de la universidad de Yonsei estaba disponible para descargar en Internet, incluso los MP3 y los 5 libros, y no he podido resistir. Empecé el primero libro y lo terminé sin mayor dificultad. No hay muchas palabras que no conozco hasta ahora, así que no es muy difícil, pero estoy seguro que eso va a cambiar.

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Ahora mi sentimiento es que el coreano es una lengua difícil, quizás más difícil que el mandarín. La curva de aprendizaje es muy diferente, como lo veo. Si el mandarín es ultra difícil a empezar, porque se necesita aprender miles de caracteres chinos antes de poder leer incluso cosas básicas y elementales. En el coreano, se puede aprender en pocas horas el alfabeto hangul, pero no sé cuánto tiempo tendré que estudiar para saber cómo utilizar correctamente las múltiples terminaciones verbales.

La ventaja que yo tengo es que mi enfoque se centra en la comprensión órale, así que muchas veces puedo entender la significación general de las frases sin necesariamente tener que captar las sutilezas de los sufijos verbales. Es más rápido así, pero es contra productivo a largo plazo.

Otra ventaja que tengo es mi conocimiento de los caracteres chinos. Eso es muy ventajoso para facilitar e incluso acelerar mi estudio. Básicamente, eso significa que puedo aprender y asimilar vocabulario sino-coreano muy rápidamente. También eso ayuda mucho con la pronunciación y es muy fácil recordar las palabras nuevas. Tengo mucha compasión por los valientes aquí en el fórum que estudian el coreano sin conocimiento del chino, o al menos, de los caracteres.

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Hay tantas bitácoras nuevas en el fórum y llenadas de ideas y de información sobre lenguas que no conozco o de las cuales conozco sólo el nombre. Me gusta mucho leer las publicaciones de antiguos miembros y la novedad llevada per los nuevos. Es muy refrescante y va ser un año muy interesante, ¡estoy cierto de eso!

Aunque la totalidad de mis esfuerzos reales se ha enfocado en el coreano, debo admitir que también tuve la tentación de empezar otras lenguas más, quizás el kurdo o el hebreo, aunque creo que no hay ninguna situación realista en la cual podría necesitar hablar una de esos idiomas en un futuro próximo. Mi corte pero intenso interés por el italiano se acabó tan rápido cómo empezó. ¡Sin arrepentimiento!

En español, he escuchado algunos podcasts de España sobre las relaciones humanas, y he escrito el bitácora que están leyendo aquí. Nada más.

Mañana me voy para Rusia, Japón y finalmente Corea. Estoy muy nervioso, a decir verdad, pero también tengo muchas ganas de ver ponerme a prueba. Voy a comprobar realmente si lo que he estudiado es útil. Fui a Corea algunas veces antes, 6 o 7, cómo turista e invitado, pero esta vez va a ser la primera en que he realmente y seriamente estudiado la lengua. Antes, mi esposa siempre ha tenido la carga de hacer la traducción, pero está vez ya estamos de acuerdo – voy a hablar con la gente cada vez que va ser posible y que la conversación está a mi alcance. ¡Seguramente va a ser interesante!

Yo también de repente me convertí en un fanático del pingüino más famoso del mundo. Tengo que admitir que muchas de sus apariciones en diferentes videos en YouTube son hilarantes. Su coreano también es relativamente simple y fácil de entender para extranjeros. Lo más increíble es que este pequeño y travieso pingüino ya ha grabado más de 80 episodios de su show en YouTube. Es un verdadero fenómeno y ya dicen que el animal ha logrado más popularidad que BTS y otras estrellas del k-pop en su país. Al mismo tiempo está prácticamente desconocido fuera de Corea. Sólo hay que escuchar algunos episodios para entender porque él es tan querido por sus fans.



수고하세요!
아아 놀랐다면미안 Lo siento si te he sorprendido
이런 펭귄처음이지 Es la primera vez (que ves a) tal pingüino?
남극에선 혼자였지 Estaba solo en la Antártida
남과다른덩치 Diferente de los demás
원래 그래 특별하면 Si soy tan especial
외로운 별이되지 Es que voy a convertirme en una estrella solitaria, ¿no?
한국에선 노는 게 제일 좋은펭귄 El más encantador pingüino en Corea
뿌르르?삐리리? 암튼 스타라며 ¿Purere? ¿Piriri? Lo que sea, pero una estrella
노는건 내가 제일인데 한 번 볼래? Soy el mejor por te divertir, ¿quieres verlo?
아 구걸하련던건 아냐 Oh, no te estoy suplicando
자이언트 펭 tv Giant Peng-TV
음 그래도구독하면 내가 잘할게 Hum, bueno, si te suscribes, lo haré mejor
난 너의 평생친구자이언트 펭수 Soy Giant Pengsu, tu amigo por toda la vida
워-오- 자이언트 펭tv Wohoo, Giant Peng-TV
워-오- 자이이언트펭tv Wohoo, Giant Peng-TV
난 하나뿐인210cm 자이언트 펭귄 크리에이터 Soy el único pingüino gigante de 210 cm
펭 펭! Peng, Peng!
yo 자이언트 펭tv, Yo, Giant Peng-TV
Let`s구독 Suscriben
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Purangi
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby Purangi » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:18 pm

So we escaped from China just in time.

We flew out on 24th. Starting from 26th my friends in Beijing and elsewhere were “asked” to self quarantine in their house. Yesterday most trains into Beijing were canceled, and my workmates are now stuck in their hometowns. Flights are starting to get canceled.

Latest news is that workplaces are now forbidding any travel outside of Beijing and China for foreign employees. When we left there were already reports coming out that things were much, much worse than what officials were saying on TV. We first went to Vladivostok and then flew to Tokyo, then Osaka. As I write this I am in Kyoto, Japan.

It’s an understatement to say that there’s been many sensational news coming from Wuhan — both fake and true. From what I heard reality is too often very tragic. Many reports from families whose relatives died and were cremated straight from the hospital — without them being able to pay their respects or hold a ceremony. Death certificates indicate pneumonia or flu, anything but the new virus.

Numbers we see are fake of course. All official statistics coming out of China have been tempered and adjusted to serve the needs of local/provincial/national authorities. To be honest, I find it puzzling that serious journalists still have any trust left in Chinese statistics. Don’t take it from me, take it from the mayor of Wuhan, who admitted on live TV to underreporting/hiding virus-related data.

The state apparatus basically collapsed for the first few days in Hubei/Wuhan. Cities and villages that were not quarantined have basically cut themselves from the rest of the country in a move for self preservation. Local CPC cells has taken over and now oversee the fight against the virus and management of public services in Wuhan, according to what I heard from local people...

At the central level, unsurprisingly, the state has been doing the only things that it does well: finding and cracking down on any dissident voices. Media censorship has been kicked up a notch. Everything that even hints that authorities are incompetent or have hidden critical information and should be held accountable is immediately deleted, and the people who spread/write these articles are “dealt” with. My friends told me half-jokingly that it is more dangerous to publish about the virus and to actually catch it.

On a language perspective, I think that whole virus thing might have a few interesting effects. Wuhan and Hubei speak a special dialect, and their unique way of speaking is now synonymous with infection, death and pneumonia. Videos and info circulate online of people calling the police upon hearing the local tongue. People are refused service, excluded and abused because they were caught speaking the Wuhan dialect in public. While Chinese speakers turn against Hubei speakers, people in Hong Kong turn against the entire Mandarin population. One restaurant has announced it will not serve or welcome any Mandarin speakers on its premises. It will be interesting how it plays out if the virus continue to spread and if the name “Wuhan pneumonia” sticks in the long term in China. I think it could perhaps accelerate the transition toward standard Mandarin, maybe not in Wuhan itself, but definitely in Hubei people living elsewhere in China.

Overall, there is much anger and disbelief among my Chinese friends in Beijing and elsewhere. 2020 was supposed to be a big year for China, the country planned to eradicate poverty and reach 小康.

Over the last few years propaganda outlets have worked hard to make people believe their country was catching up and even better than the USA in areas of AI, technologies, public services, etc. Many started to believe it. This whole disease, the lock-down and vilification of an entire province, the extreme incompetence of local authorities, and the harsh repression against people trying to spread accurate information on the epidemic — all of this was a brutal wake-up call.

I do not wish ill on anyone, but seeing the immense suffering that the system has caused, I am certain a lot of people in Hubei hope the virus goes all the way to the bedrooms of Zhongnanhai.
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Purangi
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby Purangi » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:28 pm

On Vladivostok:

The city itself hasn’t changed a lot since the last time I was there. Despite the new bridge and a few new buildings and restaurants here and there, Vladivostok still has the same old, tired appearance covered with scars. I studied Russian there in the DVGU, as it was once called, in 2009. The university has since been renamed and moved to a nearby island. Based on what I experienced there, the character of the locals, on the other hand, appeared to have been radically transformed. In 2009, foreign faces — i.e. Asian faces — were few in the city. My few Chinese and Korean classmates refused to leave the dorm alone or at night. Xenophobic incidents were just too common. Not necessarily violence, but nasty encounters with drunk sailors wishing to pick a fight were part of daily life. The overall mood among the population was not exactly welcoming toward their Asian neighbors. Westerners like me, on the other hand, never had any problems.

Things couldn’t be more different now. Korean and Chinese tourists are very visible all around town, well past sunset time. Korean language menus are readily available in many bars/restaurants and staff were visibly happy to try a few polite expressions they had learned in Korean. What a difference! Looks like the city has finally embraced its geography and is now cashing in on its identity has Asia’s most European city.

From a language point of view, my Russian oral comprehension is still quite good, considering I haven’t been there for three years. I understood everything that was said to me, although sometimes with some (embarrassing) delay. My speaking skills however have definitely gotten much worse. I was constantly looking for words, hesitating between two case endings, using Russified English words as if I was in London, I kept getting the stress wrong, etc. It was a real humbling experience and it felt like my first visit in Moscow. Amazingly Russian people are quite forgiving with foreigners using their language, and they managed to understand me every time. Use it or lose it, as they say. So I guess I will need to start using it again.

Another interesting thing happened in Vladivostok. So the city was kind of known as travel hub for North Koreans going and coming between their country, Russia, and elsewhere. When I was there studying in the DVGU, there were many young North Korean students living with us in the dorm for foreign students —- it was fascinating to see them as they bought and learned to operate their very first cellphone and tried different soft drinks not available across the border, etc. Even more interesting was to see North Korean officials walking around our campus : all in black clothes, smoking non-stop, and wearing the badge with portraits of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il on their heart.

Things have not completed changed, based on what I saw there last week. So me and my wife exited the airport and boarded the shuttle going into town. Soon we were joined by four Asian middle-age men, dressed in black from head to toe. At first I thought they might be Koryo people or even Buryat, but they spoke Russian with a strong accent — way too strong for locals. Then they started speaking between themselves in a North Korean dialect. Of course I couldn’t understand anything of what they were saying, but interestingly my wife couldn’t understand mjcheither, although she has fairly good understanding of Pyongyang Korean. We assumed it was probably a lesser known northern dialect? Needless to say, I didn’t ask them for details. These guys were obviously on official business and didn’t look like a bunch of lively lads.
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby nooj » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:28 pm

What a interesting life you live. I'm glad you got out before the virus shut things down. And a belated 새해 복 많이 받으세요.
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby iguanamon » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:12 pm

Mwen kontan anpil pou konnen ou ak madam ou, nou sennesòf. Se yon sitiyasyon ki ta bay m laperèz. Gras a Dye, nou chape kò nou pou sòti Lachin. Mèsi pou ekri sou Vladivostok. Se yon vil ki toujou m te vle vizite. Dakò ak nooj, m kwè menm bagay la, ou gen yon vi trè enteresan. Bòn chans e bòn ane !
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Purangi
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby Purangi » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:26 pm

iguanamon wrote:Mwen kontan anpil pou konnen ou ak madam ou, nou sennesòf. Se yon sitiyasyon ki ta bay m laperèz. Gras a Dye, nou chape kò nou pou sòti Lachin. Mèsi pou ekri sou Vladivostok. Se yon vil ki toujou m te vle vizite. Dakò ak nooj, m kwè menm bagay la, ou gen yon vi trè enteresan. Bòn chans e bòn ane !


Mèsi anpil Iguanamon pou bon mo ou yo. Epi mèsi w ekri nan kreyol nan blog mwen: w ede m pa bliye bèl lang sa a. Pou di vrè, nou pa vrèman pè virus, nou plis pè nou bay virus paran nou ouswa granparan nou. Nou fèk rive Kore epi mwen kwè nou plis an sekirite isit la. Mwen swete w yon bòn ane!
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Purangi
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby Purangi » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:31 pm

nooj wrote:What a interesting life you live. I'm glad you got out before the virus shut things down. And a belated 새해 복 많이 받으세요.


안녕하세요! nooj씨도 새해 복 많이 받으세요! 우린 방금 대한민국에 비행기로 도착했습니다. 여기에 잠시 기다리고 싶은데 중국쪽으로 돌아갈까요. 그래도 이 바이러스는 좋은 면이 있는 것 같습니다: 네가 한국어를 열공 하야돼요! ㅋㅋ 지금 어쩔 수 업습니다.
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Purangi
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby Purangi » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:49 pm

So our short Japan trip has ended— we spent just a couple days each in Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto. I was very much looking forward to spending time there as I was curious to see how much written Japanese can I understand based on my knowledge of Chinese characters. The answer is just enough to make traveling easier, but not much more than that.

Not sure if it’s the same situation all over Japan, but I think place names use mostly kanji and therefore they were easiest to understand. Things like 京都, 东京 etc., subway and train stations, bus stops, everything was easily readable for me. This made it much easier to find our way around.

Then there are public signs that also use a lot of characters. Most of the time these are the same or extremely similar to their equivalent in modern Mandarin (things like 安全第一,大人, 小儿, 入口,投票日, 博物馆, 时刻表). Other times they are different from Mandarin, yet perfectly understandable if one knows the context. An example is this warning I saw in a temple: 境内三脚使用禁止. Tripods are forbidden inside the temple. I think I also saw 小钱 (零钱 in Mandarin); 無料 (免费 in Mandarin, 무료 in Korean); and 定食 (套餐).

In all other cases, kanji are mixed with kana, and although I could read the kanji, I was unable to decipher their meaning, even with context. For example the expression 放题 is widely used in the restaurant business. It doesn’t have any clear meaning in standard Mandarin (to the best of my knowledge; not sure about other Chinese languages?). I looked it up and it means something like all-you-can-eat buffet, which would be 自助 in Mandarin. No way I could have guessed the meaning!
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Purangi
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby Purangi » Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:55 am

Another post about the coronavirus with some politics and a language twist.

So it now seems like the entire China is on lockdown and self quarantine. I have been instructed by my workplace to self quarantine in my home and report my body temperature every morning before 10 am for the next 2 weeks. I was lucky to leave the country just in time, so instead of being stuck in my decrepit flat in Beijing, I will be spending the next 2 weeks in Seoul. I stay with a Korean family so it will also be an intense language immersion. Needless to say, a lot can change in 2 weeks.

So in the PRC, all major policy decisions are made at the top level of the CPC, in Beijing. Local Party cells in districts and villages are then in charge of enforcing the decisions, and they have a great deal of latitude in doing so. That’s why the same policy can produce radically different outcomes in two different regions or villages.

Local authorities also have to explain policies to the local population. That means expressing complex objectives and ideas in the simplest way possible, mostly through slogans in Mandarin Chinese. The slogans are then printed over red and white banners that are hanged in public places.

Not always, but sometimes these slogans are real works of art: you can feel that the people in charge of propaganda actually tried their best to convey clear information in one or two easy-to-remember verses. I found the following examples online regarding the policy of self-imposed quarantine all over China due to the coronavirus.

Image

If you visit relatives this year,
you will visit their graves next year.

Image

People with fever who don’t report themselves are all class enemies hiding among the people.

Image

Do not visit relatives during Chinese New Year;
people who do visit are enemies;
if enemies come, don’t open your door.

Image

A mask or a medical ventilator:
think carefully and choose one.

Image

People who come back from Hubei and fail to register are all time bombs.

Image

Having someone over for dinner now is a murder attempt.

Image

Visiting relatives is murder;
gathering is suicide.

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We don’t gather now because we want to be able to eat together later;
we don’t visit relatives now because we want to still have relatives later.

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Someone from Wuhan is in my house, stay away.

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Do not forget: the virus enters from your mouth;
do not eat wild meat,
do not consume exotic food
do not be gluttonous.

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If you do not stay put at home,
next year you'll be growing grass from under your grave.

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Our country is having difficulties,
let us not create more trouble.
Stay put at home,
that is your best contribution.
Relatives won’t go away,
friends will still be there next year.
Let us gather next time.
China, add oil!
Good health for the entire people starts with this.
6 x

Purangi
Orange Belt
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian, Spanish
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Re: Purangi's Log (한국어)

Postby Purangi » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:23 pm

A few random thoughts exactly one week after arriving in Korea.

— Over the last week, I have spoken, read and listened to the Korean language more than ever before. It’s not total immersion because I still use a lot of English and Mandarin, but it’s close to it. I know how precious this is, so I am also making conscious efforts to make the most out of this opportunity.

— Overall, I can make myself understood fairly well in the family where I stay, despite using wrong endings and painfully limited vocabulary. I can ask about and learn new words when I don’t understand something. This goes to show that a great deal of goodwill on both parties if perhaps the single most important thing to ensure successful communication.

— However, it is really hard it to learn a language in a situation where there is one learner but many native speakers. When having a one on one conversation, natives have no choice but to slow down their speech and confirm that I understand them. They also have to patiently wait until I come up with an intelligible reply, however slow I am. I can manage fairly well in this kind of situation. When two native speakers are involved, they naturally tend to exclude me from the conversation, not on purpose but de facto. I can still understand a lot of words and the general topic, but not the details. Needless to say but I can barely take part in this kind of conversations. The only time native speakers will try to include me on purpose in their conversation is when they are joking, and it is really hard to have any sort of funny exchange when your brain is totally focused on understanding what’s going on. Most of the time, it goes something like this:

Me: I am quite hungry.
Korean 1: You are so hungry you could eat an entire pig haha
Korean 2: You could eat an entire beef if possible haha
Me:..... yes.... wait... what... no...
Everyone: (awkward silence)

— Everyone in the family uses 반말 all the time between themselves, but according to basic politeness, I should use 존댓말 with my elders anyone I don’t know. That is really hard, as all I hear from morning to night is 반말 and my first reaction is to repeat what I hear. I still want to get it right though, so I end up repeating the same verb two times in the two levels of politeness. I probably sound like an idiot.

— My comprehension is widely different according to the age of the speakers—I understand younger Koreans much better than people over 40-50. I found that people younger than me are easiest to understand.

— Even though I don’t understand random conversations around me, I recognize a lot of the words that are used. In the subway, for example, I will get perhaps up to 50-60% of words in a conversation around me. That’s up from perhaps 5% previously. I can also understand full sentences in a given conversation when they are short enough.

— I had a number of successful mini interactions in shops, restaurants, on the streets. I managed to understand what people were telling me and to make myself understood. I can read public signs easily compared to not at all the last time I was here.

— There is much more English words in Korean than I ever thought. But deciphering English words written in hangeul can be a real headache. It took me way too long to understand what 원더우먼, 히어로, 홀그레인, 필름 meant.

— The word 네 can mean both “Yes” and “What?” depending on the rising or falling intonation. I find it hard to distinguish them well when speaking so I often end up confirming something I don’t understand and asking details about something I already know. This confuses the hell out of my interlocutors.

— I find that thinking in Chinese when speaking Korean both helps and hinders. Someone told me the word 관광지 and although I know the first half, I could not process the last part. I thought about the equivalent in Chinese and immediately remembered that 지 is 地,thus 觀光地(区). It can also be an hinderance as I tend to just use Mandarin words when speaking Korean, which confuses everybody including me.

— Something I read in Korean which is absolutely confusing and yet so straightforward: The sentence 그는 우리를 나 몰라라 했다 means “He ignored us” but it literally says “He said I do not know us”. Although the sentence is in the third person singular, the quote’s subject remains in the first person singular — without quotation marks. Took me a while to figure this out. The only other language I know that behave like this is Chinese, specially press releases, where quotes can be in the first person without using quotation marks, i.e. “M. so-and-so said in his speech that I will...”

—A lot of Koreans seem to find it hilarious when foreigners use the wrong politeness level in a formal social situation, but I also start to feel that there are limits to their patience, specially when I keep getting simple things wrong again and again. I feel it will be almost impossible to be taken seriously or have any kind of meaningful conversation with someone older than me as long as I don’t solve this issue.

— About my speaking skills, one Korean 아주머니 wanted to encourage me and told me my level was somewhat similar to a “kindergarten kid”. She said it as a compliment so I might as well take it as such. To be fair she also said I had graduated to elementary school the next day, after I managed to order an order of mandu on my own.

Side notes: Seoul is really an amazing city. It never ceases to amaze me and every time I come back I discover something new. Some districts can be busy, loud, dirty, with smells of 소주 and 삼겹살 — but it also has the most serene and peaceful places, specially if one goes hiking in the many mountains all around town. With everything falling apart in Beijing, we are considering moving here for a few months — good reason to double my efforts and learn the language!
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