Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

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DaveAgain
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby DaveAgain » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Sarafina wrote:I've found a promising Italki tutor who is also a DALF examiner. But I haven't had a trial lesson with her yet. With my new job, I can comfortably afford 2-3 Italki lessons a week from August. I have had a couple of really amazing Italki tutors in the past but I need someone that is really knowledgeable about the DALF exam and have experience in preparing students for it.
I think MamaPata mentioned joining group class for Delf/dalf preparation, is that an option for you? It might be cheaper than tutors.
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Sarafina
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby Sarafina » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:03 pm

DaveAgain wrote:I think MamaPata mentioned joining group class for Delf/dalf preparation, is that an option for you? It might be cheaper than tutors.


There isn't any group class for DALF preparation at this time. The next one for me would be from October to December. I prefer having individual private lessons because it is entirely focused on my goals and working on my weaknesses. But I wouldn't mind supplementing Italki lessons with group classes in the future. I like the potential social aspects of doing group classes and the type of motivation that comes when you're working with other people that have the same goal as you.
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Sarafina
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby Sarafina » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:22 pm

I've daydreaming in French recently. It's usually imagined situations of me working in a monolingual French environment. There was one scenario where I had to translate some random Drake lyrics to a rap enthusiatic French colleague. I remember struggling to translate the concept of being 'faded' in French. I described it as 'comme tu es un peu bourré mais par des drogues'. It was an awkward explanation but they understood what I meant. The hardest part about translating rap lyrics was not remembering what x word means in French but rather having to explain the cultural references and the word plays. There were times where I couldn't properly translate much because I barely understood the lyrics myself.

The Italki tutor that I really wanted to book a trial lesson with is currently not accepting any new students. I'm a little nervous about having Italki lessons again. Attempting this DALF exam this year was too ambitious with the other non-language related commitments that I have. I've booked about three lessons with three different Italki tutors. There's another one that is a DALF examiner that I really wanted to book but their schedule is unfortunately completely off from mine.

I'm trying to focus on creating more suistanable habits that will help to improve my French. For example with just listening related activities, I was trying to watch 4+ episodes and write detailed summaries for each one then try to record; I will then try to listen to a 30-60 minutes podcast practically three times followed by a detailed summary and response to what was being discussed in that podcast then watch one hour of my favourite French youtubers. I need to stop creating goals that operates under the delusion that somehow I can transform myself into some kind of language learning machine who can devote 4 hours of uninterrupted time solely to French.

I'm getting a point to a point in my French where I know when I'm saying something that sounds off and unnatural but I then struggle to reformulate it into something less awkward.

I've been waking up pretty early lately because I have more responsibilities in my workplace which basically requires me to be the first person to arrive and the last person to leave. I have more free time in the mornings where I can devote at least 30-60 minutes in the morning to the more tedious activities that I may not particularly enjoy but it is necessary in tackling my weaknesses.
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Sarafina
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby Sarafina » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:49 pm

I had a disappointing lesson with a French Italki tutor. I was excited to take lessons with someone that is actually a DALF examiner. There was such an awkward lesson. It was clear that she didn't really have a plan and she spent more time talking about her pets than how I can prepare for the DALF exam even though I sent a long detailed message explaining my goals and the specific help that I needed. She barely even let me talk. I wouldn't mind if it was about something related to how I can improve my chances in passing C1. She was discussing how she doesn't really like her job. She was late on top of that. She is only Italki tutor that I have given anything less than 5 stars to. I'm honestly still in shock. It was the least professional Italki lesson that I've ever had.

On the plus side, she told me that I shouldn't have a problem passing the DALF exam in December which was a shock and a huge relief as long I can eliminate making basic mistakes that aren't acceptable in the C-levels.

I'm considering going back to my old Italki tutor (who although doesn't have any experience with the DALF exam structure) who was a really good and thorough teacher.
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Sarafina
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby Sarafina » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:50 pm

When people ask me why French, I don't know. I used to think I did but now I'm not sure.

I was struggling to write a love letter to French prompted by the 'Write a Love Letter to Your Favorite Language' thread by Eido. I had a couple of drafts but they all rang hallow. Instead I tried to write a letter to French with the sole criteria that it just honestly expresses my feelings towards the language. It was surprisingly a lot more bleak and bitter than I thought it would be.

Then I realised why I struggled so much with responding to the prompt. French is not my favourite language. In fact, I'm not particularly fond of it. I liked French initially because I liked the challenge of language learning and I liked the idea of being able to communicate to others and consume different sources of media in a foreign language. But it was never intrinsically tied anything unique about French in its self. Along the way, there's a handful of French content that I ended up liking and I met some really cool French exchange partners but it was only after I discovered them because I made a deliberate effort to find something interesting to engage with in French (and as for the interesting French exchange partners I've basically lost touch with all but one of them).

I tried to think of things that I experienced and enjoyed that I couldn't have been able to do if I didn't know French. In terms of TV shows, I enjoyed watching Dark, Ranma, Hilltop Hospital, Steven Universe, Over the Garden Wall, OA, Skam, Les Cahiers d'Esther and revisiting childhood cartoons that I've enjoyed in French. But apart from Skam France and Les Cahiers d'Esther, my knowledge of French was not needed at all to consume it and it didn't have much of an effect on my enjoyment of the show. Both Les Cahiers d'Esther and Skam France are the only French TV series that I was truly apperciative of the fact that I understood French in some way. Although there are native French TV series that I plan to watch and they seem interesting- I probably wouldn't watch them if I wasn't learning French. I enjoyed watching 'Intouchable'- it is one of my favourite films of all times but I watched this movie years ago with my family and the English subtitles was great.

I'm surprisingly a big fan of Squeezie and I've genuinely enjoyed watching his videos. Although his more popular videos already have English subtitles but their quality isn't great and tends to be super literal. I liked some of Golden Moustache's videos in the past (however a fair bit of their videos have English subtitles). I absolutely adore Ichiban Japan (then again most of this videos have English subtitles already). Colas Bim is another French YouTuber that I really really like. Similar with Skam, I was happy that I had a decent comprehension of French otherwise his videos would have been inaccessible to me. I

As for music, I don't need to understand the lyrics to enjoy the songs. There's only a handful of French/Francophone artists that I like. There are more Spanish/Korean-speaking artists that I enjoy way more. I don't seek it out because it's in a certain language but rather because I just really love the song and I want to hear it again and again. Although I've had that experience with certain French songs.

There are wonderful books written in French that I'm looking forward to reading. But I would be more devastated if I was banned Japanese or Latin American books than if I was banned from reading books that were originally written in French. A big factor for why I want to learn Japanese is because of its literature and my fascination with the writing system. With Spanish, I love magical realism and Latin American literature thus some of my favourite books were originally written in Spanish.

The only thing that French wins hands down with the other languages that I want to learn is its podcasts. Honestly, there's been some amazing French podcasts that I've discovered and really enjoyed. I actually enjoy studying French as part of my degree. But it's more due to the fact that I like learning about new stuff and writing essays and being able to discuss it in general.

With French, all my attempts to find compelling input/content have been very deliberate and something that I have to remind myself to do. However with Spanish, Brazilian Portuguese, Korean, Japanese and Chinese, I have more personal and compelling reasons to want to learn those languages. With French, there are many moments where it feels almost like obligation. Sometimes I wish that I just dropped French after the IB or have not even done it at all. My reason to still continue with French is because I want to prove something to myself and to have the last laugh and probably more likely the sunk cost fallacy.

I can't abandon French- I'm stuck with it for the long haul. Sure, I can't deny that I've had more negative experiences with French than positive ones. But that ratio is not fixed and it will change. Just because I don't particularly like French in general doesn't mean that I can't have fun or do cool things with the language. I want to experience the satisfaction and sense of accomplishment in achieving my goals of getting the C-levels in French. I've had enjoyable moments with French (although they are few and far between) and I still plan on creating plenty more enjoyable moments/memories. There's a bunch of interesting French TV series, books and movies that I'm still looking forward to trying. Even though I do consume more dubbed content, there's still a sense of sastification in understanding something entirely in a foreign language. I know that I can achieve with any other language but for now that language is French and I'm excited to see how far I can go with it.

I think that I'm probably going to fail the C1 exam that I signed up for at this rate. I have other commitments that are really important. I really underestimated how time-consuming those projects would be. I think that I could pass the listening exam and maybe maybe the reading exam but I would certainly fail the oral and written sections. I really considered postponing it. But I'm curious to see how I'll do and it will provide useful information on the level of my French. If I fail the one in December, it would be little embarrassing considering the French exam successes of other people in this forum and the fact that I paid £150, I'll just retake it in March 2020.

I can't write a letter to French declearing my love but I can promise to be there for better or worse.
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Sarafina
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby Sarafina » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:44 pm

I already know that I'm going to fail the upcoming DALF exam. Before I had strong doubts but now I know for certainty. It's weirdly liberating and I don't feel nervous anymore. Instead, I'm interested to see what I'll get. I'm back at uni but lectures start on the 30th. I have an opportunity to take language classes which will count as credits towards a specific award. But I don't know if I want to take language classes and I don't know how I feel about being a class of 15 where I'm listening to butchered Spanish/Japanese/Mandarin.

I would have to take level 1. I don't understand how it takes 20 something weeks to reach A1/A2 level. There's no intensive courses. But it might be fun and it would be nice to meet other language learners.

I've been getting more frustrated the more time I spend trying to improve my pronunciation and grammar. It's honestly depressing and demotivating. It feels like a game of 'whack the mole'. I spend time trying to master a specific sound and there's another equally challenging pronunciation issue that I need to iron out. I feel like I'm trying to fill up a swimming pool with a teaspoon. In an ideal world, I would dedicate at least 3 months to fixing my pronunciation with an accent coach. It's hard trying to find the balance between re-establishing the basics/fundamentals and consuming challenging content.

I don't know if I should try to focus on 60-80% of my energy and efforts in improving my pronunciation and grammar which are currently my biggest weakness. Or spend more of time consuming native French media and hope that massive amount of input with little focused grammar and pronunciation work will be enough.

At the moment, I've been aiming for 3 hours of input (with 2 hours of listening and 1 hour of reading) then 20 minutes sessions of grammar or pronunciation work. I rarely do more than 1 hour worth of grammar and pronunciation work. But I remember that there are people who are constantly immersed in their target language and have 100% comprehension yet still have hard to understand accent or still make persistent sent mistakes with their pronunciation. I've never done more than 2 20 minutes sessions of pronunciation work. For grammar study, it's not so bad and once I get into the flow of things it can be enjoyable and therapeutic.

I don't know why I struggle so much with dedicating more time to improving my pronunciation when it bothers me so much.
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Sarafina
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby Sarafina » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:11 am

Morgana wrote:
Sarafina wrote:I don't know why I struggle so much with dedicating more time to improving my pronunciation when it bothers me so much.
Because it feels bad to constantly be bumping up against the stuff that’s challenging us the most. It’s instinct to avoid things that make us feel bad, you’re human ;) Just gotta keep chipping away at it at whatever speed you can tolerate without running in the opposite direction. May I ask what work you’re doing for pronunciation? (I’m sorry if I’ve missed it.) Do you feel it’s effective?


I tried going through Phonétique progressive du français. I don't know if I can comment on its usefulness considering I never finished the book. I don't have much of a problem repeating specific sounds/words so going through the exercises often felt like a waste of time. My main problem is that I have difficulty internalising some pronunciation rules despite consciously knowing better.

I also tried shadowing. I just ended up spending ages obsessing over a single phrase. In my head there's just always something that gives me away as a non-native no matter how good it may sound. I don't know if I'm meant to focus on a single phrase until it sounds as close to a native speaker as possible even if it takes hours.
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Sarafina
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby Sarafina » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:51 am

I've been thinking about what I want to do for my year abroad. At first, I wanted to split between France, Switzerland and Canada. But three countries might be too much. I'll probably end up dividing my time equally between France and Switzerland as I've been told that Canada might be difficult to arrange. I really like Switzerland and I really enjoyed my time when I was an exchange student there.

Funny enough, my oral French exams for next year closely mirror the DALF oral section and there's also going to be an assessment that will require me to summarise and synthesise French articles. It might be good to retake the DALF exam after my uni assessments with that considered.

There's a possibility that the December DALF exam may clash with some uni assessments. In order to do the exam, I'd have to skip the last two days of term (sometimes they might be a compulsory meeting or an exam/coursework deadline scheduled on that day).
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Sarafina
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby Sarafina » Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:57 pm

On a non-language related note, I feel a lot better about my prospects after university. There's been some really interesting opportunities that I am pursuing and I'm happy that I've been accepted to some of them.

I wanted to start this post with something positive before I start my usual whining. In terms of French, I barely engage with the language beyond a couple of French podcasts here and there. Although I have days where I spend hours on hours consuming French content.

My Rants (general moaning about the same old thing
I don't like the changes to the French/English tandem group that I go to- there's a lot more interruptions by the supervisor of the group who tries too hard to force the conversation to a specific direction. It's really irritating.

I find the French oral classes to be 99% a waste of my time. Maybe I'll learn 1-5 words in the entire 50 minutes and get a handful of corrections. I'm probably better off recording myself speaking French for 10-50 minutes and asking native French speakers to correct me. It would be useful if it was a one-on-one conversation with a specific topic to prepare in advance. The new oral teacher that we have constantly shifts back and forward from French to English. Why????? It's meant to be a class where we exclusively speak French. I hate to be the uni equivalent of that kid who reminds the teacher that we had homework :D

I may have to do some interviews in French soon. I feel really nervous about it. My speaking is terrible. I feel like a broken record: I want to sound more like a native French speaker but I despise doing pronunciation related work.

Future Plans
I'm thinking of doing 1000 hour challenge for French (with 500 hours dedicated to watching TV series or YouTube videos/listening to French podcasts) by mid September 2020 (which is when I will be taking my work placement in a French speaking country). Hopefully my French should be at least half-way decent after 1000 hours.

Switzerland and Canada are looking like a long shot. Unfortunately, all the contacts/connections that I have in Switzerland are entirely in the German speaking side of Switzerland. Except if I apply to be a language assistant if those two countries via the British Council. There's been a couple of students in my uni who went to Canada through the British Council assistantship program.

For work placements/internships it's most likely going to be in France. Unless I go down the British Council route which is no guarantee because posts for Switzerland and Canada are very competitive.

I really want to study Japanese and Spanish. I never realised that I could defer a graduate job/schemes and take a gap year after my studies. I've been exchanging emails with someone that did this who gave a talk for a company that I really want to work at and she talked about how it was the best decision that she made. If I took a gap year, I'd probably split between Japan and Latin America. I'm tired of postponing learning those languages until I get into x level of French. Although I don't know I'm meant to squeeze Japanese and Spanish if I'm doing a 1000 hour challenge unless I change the deadline to 31st December 2020 which would be wiser (probably).

Confession
I ended up not sitting the DALF exam. I had something that clashed with exam dates. Although that's not a good enough excuse. If I really wanted to, I could have postponed it until next year and deal with the consequences when it comes. It won't be pleasant but I would have been able to get around it if I really wanted to sit the DALF exam. I feel annoyed at myself for wasting £150.

I still want to sit the one of DALF exams but it will mostly likely September 2021 after I return from my year abroad. Although it would have been nice and really useful to have the DALF certificate before my year abroad.

Reflections
I've been fairly consistent with my podcasts. The reason why I don't watch as much as TV in French as I used to is because when I watch TV I tend to watch it with my flatmate and a lot of sites that I used to watch French TV series have shut down.
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Sarafina
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Re: Should Know Better But French, Spanish and Japanese

Postby Sarafina » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:54 pm

Plans for other languages for 2020
Some part of me wants to replicate Judith Meyer's subs2srs experiment but over a period of 6 months. But I know that it's a path that will ultimately lead to frustration due to my lack of vocabulary and knowledge of Japanese grammar.

Japanese
Instead I'm planning on using Ari's Chinesepod method except with dialogue-only audio files from Japanesepod101. I'm hoping to devote only 30-45 minutes. Then watch at least one episode/or a movie in Japanese daily (the first time with English subtitles and the second time without any Japanese subtitles. I think it's a nice way to relax with the language and it is always cool when you notice words that you've studied appear in native material that you are consuming.

I need finish going through all the episodes in Newbie Season 2-3 (50), Japanese Particles Explained (26), Beginner 4-6(100), Lower Intermediate 2-6 (125) with Ari's Chinesepod method. I'm aiming at going through at least one episode on a weekday and two on a weekend.
I have to recreate my Anki deck which basically had the audio at the front then the Japanese and English sentence at the back and re-download the audio files contain the dialogues because it had been saved on my old laptop so I'll need to spend at least 1-2 weeks on it just organising everything.

I'm signed up for a online Japanese pronunciation course. It's really short and just gives an overview of Japanese pronunciation which I can go through while I'm sorting out recreating my Anki deck for all 301 episodes.

Spanish
I'm going to get Pimsleur subscription from the 23rd January. I'm planning on going through Level 1-5. I want to create good pronunciation habits from day 1 hence why I want to an entirely audio based course. After I finish all 5 levels (hopefully around sometime in April) then I want to complete FSI Spanish Basic Course and Practice Makes Perfect Spanish verb tenses. I also want to a transcription challenge with Radio Ambulante but I think it would be wise to start it after I've completed Spanish FSI Spanish Basic course. For fun, I want to binge-watch cartoons in Spanish (I don't know how effective it is as a beginner but I don't think it hurts to maintain regular exposure to the language). A big part of why I want to learn Spanish is because of Latin American literature but I think it would be best to focus on reading tons of native materials after I've finished FSI Spanish Basic course.



In summary for Spanish
1. Pimsleur Level 1-5
2. FSI Spanish Basic Course + Practice Makes Perfect Spanish Verb Tenses
3. Transcription Challenge using Radio Ambulante/Netflix shows that have accurate Spanish subtitles
4. L-R method/Intensive reading
5. Start speaking????


In summary for Japanese
1. Japanese Pronunciation for Communication course
2. Intensive of audio dialogue files from Japanesepod101 using Ari's Chinesepod method (all 301 episodes)
3. Subs2srs for TV series that I found interesting

(On each step, I want to try to watch TV series in the target language without subtitles as a way of measuring my level of comprehension and to see my progress)
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