Robierre’s French C2 log

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Robierre
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby Robierre » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:19 pm

Week 19

Italian

Charles Bukowski (Pulp, 182 pages) was a real fun; surreal, violent, cynical, extremely colloquial - more or less it has all the characteristics that I usually hate in literature but somehow I found it enjoyable. Maybe because of the way the American English slang was translated to Italian lingua parlata.

Curently reading+listening:
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Pier Paolo Pasolini: Ragazzi di vita (1956) (p. 19/282, episodes 1 and 2, Ad Alta voce)
This will be a hard work. Pasolini (Italian writer, poet, filmmaker and intellectual) is generally known as one of the most eloquent Italian writers and his passion for dialects reflects in all of his works. Ragazzi di vita combines Romanesco (in dialogues) and narrative registers of the standard Italian. I already wrote somewhere and I want to repeat it: you can't fully understand the Italian language and culture without the insight in local dialects. For me this is a very exciting part of the language learning. The book provides a basic Romanesco-Italian dictionary and that should help me a lot. I don't expect that the understanding will be high as with other books I read in Italian but hopefully I'll learn many new words and expressions.

Just like with Calvino, I discovered on the very begging of the novel an old song called E sotto er monumento de Mazzini. It was a good occasion to learn some new dirty parolacce. :mrgreen:


Another nice old song in Romanesco: Barcarolo romano (qua invece non ci sono delle parolacce)


French

Officially stopped attending my French class. Reason: tired after work, I just wasn't able to concentrate. The alternative might be Italki teacher during the weekends.
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby Robierre » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:52 pm

Week 20

Italiano

Mi rimangono circa 50 pagine del romanzo Ragazzi di vita di Pier Paolo Pasolini (287 pagine). Questa lettura (per la maggior parte combinata con l'ascolto dell'audio-libro) non è per nulla facile. Si tratta di un libro che racconta la vita dei ragazzi delle borgate romane nel secondo dopo guerra, e quindi, i protagonisti parlano il dialetto (romanesco) tipico per questa città e per i giovani (sotto)proletari. Il narratore invece racconta la sua storia usando il registro letterario molto ricco; così, il cielo non è mai solo blu, i capelli non possono essere semplicemente neri o biondi, un ragazzo non è mai solo triste o felice ecc., perché esistono mille sfumature. Questo lessico s’impara dal contesto, anche se l’uso del dizionario potrebbe anche essere utile (io lo uso nelle parti che non sono registrate nell’audio libro; così la lettura diventa più intensiva e analitica). Per quanto riguarda il romanesco, è il mio primo incontro con questo dialetto e devo fare uno sforzo per capire come funziona nei termini grammaticali e fonetici; certo, dopo un po’ ti rendi conto che “namo” vuol’ dire “andiamo”, “daje” “dai”, che gli infinitivi finiscono con “-a’”, che la “l” si sostituisce spesso con la “r” (artro invece di altro, ar cinema…); la maggior parte delle parole ho capito dal contesto; infatti è l’unico modo per caprile perché’ i dizionari (tranne una piccola lista al fondo del romanzo) non contengono quel lessico. C’è però una cosa positiva – per noi che impariamo quella parte della lingua – tutte infinite sfumature che esistono nella lingua letteraria non ci sono nel dialetto; dunque, dopo 300 pagine scritte in dialetto, puoi – più o meno - essere sicuro che le più importanti e frequenti parole le hai già incontrate. Comunque è importante anche di sentirle – perciò vi consiglio il mio metodo con l’audio-libro.

Image
Film: Pane e cioccolata (1973). Pane e cioccolata è un film molto divertente diretto da Franco Brusati e interpretato da Nino Manfredi (parla in romanesco pure lui). Ha per tema l'emigrazione italiana in Svizzera. Potete cercarlo su Youtube.

Grammatica: L'Italien pour tous (un libro francese per il livelo B1-B2, ed. Bescherelle): pagine 15/330.


Français

Image
Film: Ophélia (1963) de Claude Chabrol. J’ai regardé ce film sur Rai3 (les vendredis et samedis toute la nuit, si vous ne dormez pas, il y toujours des excellents films; quelque fois ils sont même soutirés sous-titrés en italien, ce qui est assez rare en Italie). Ophélia était en version originale (français), soutiré sous-titré en italien; donc, pour moi c’était le double plaisir. En plus, la comédienne italienne Alida Valli joue un rôle dans ce film et son français est impeccable.
Last edited by Robierre on Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:55 pm

I think you'll find you meant: sous-titré (not soutiré)

Keep up the good progress!
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby Robierre » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:05 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:I think you'll find you meant: sous-titré (not soutiré)

Keep up the good progress!

That was quick - thank you! :)
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Robierre
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby Robierre » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:19 pm

Week 21

Français

Nous sommes dans les dernières semaines de 2015 et j'aimerais bien faire un petit résumé des résultats pour cette année, surtout en ce qui concerne mes premiers six mois ici. Mais je laisse cette tâche pour un autre jour. En plus, je voudrais commencer l'an 2016 avec une liste des projets concrets. En principe, mon parcours vers les niveaux les plus avancés continue avec les mêmes langues, mais il y aura quelques changements qui sont venus à l'improviste. Oui, il y aura une nouvelle langue, mais laissons cette histoire en suspens jusqu’à mon bilan final.

Cette semaine je lu ce livre:
Image
Paolo Giordano: Les humeurs insolubles (2013) (titre original: Il nero e l'argento) (137 pages)
Giordano est un jeune écrivain italien contemporain; j'ai lu beaucoup de recommandations pour son premier livre "La solitude des nombres premiersères" et du coup j'avais des grandes expectations; malheureusement, le récit et son style m'ont laissé un peu indifférent, sans trop d'enthousiasme. Par contre, la compréhension n'était pas difficile: il n'y avait jamais plus de cinq mots inconnus dans une page et il y en avait beaucoup sans aucun nouveau mot. C'est rassurant de pouvoir finalement lire un livre de manière intensive; normalement je le fais avec des articles journalistiques.

Le film de cette semaine était: Paris nous appartient, mis en scène par Jacques Rivette en 1960. Evidemment, il ne faut pas trop expliquer pourquoi le choix de Paris - peut-être j'avais besoin de voir des images de la ville d'une époque plus insouciante; en cas d'espèce des années 1950. Si l'histoire était assez mystérieux et les dialogues souvent vagues, la compréhension n'était pas difficile. En général j'aime bien la prononciation dans les films de cet cette époque-là.

Enfin, j'ai trouvé deux heures cette semaine pour travailler sur ma prononciation; on a toujours des choses à améliorer dans ce domaine. Probablement vous connaissez déjà les vidéos de French sounds sur Youtube. Ce sont vraiment les bases de la prononciation française mais je trouve ces vidéos très systématiques avec des explications impeccables. Parfois ils traitent même des sujets très complexes, par exemple, comment lire un poème:



Italiano

Finito il romazo Ragazzi di vita di Pier Paolo Pasolini (287 pagine).
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby Robierre » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:02 pm

Week 22

Italian

Reading+listening activity:
Image
Giorgio Bassani - Il giardino dei Finzi-Contini (1962)
Listening: episodes 1-12/25 (Ad alta voce)
Reading: pages 1-78/158

This interesting novel chronicles the life of the Italian Jewish family Finzi-Contini in the northern Italian city of Ferrara. Although it mainly focuses on the relationships between the major characters, the shadow of creeping fascism, especially the racial laws that restricted Jews' participation in Italian society, looms over all the novel's events. Bassani uses a very high register of the standard Italian (descriptions, long sentences, rich vocabulary), but it's still much easier than my last novel (Pasolini). For some reason, the audio-book and the pdf-text that I found on the internet don't match completely; it must be some adaptation because the basic text is generally the same - the only difference is that the audio-book uses sometimes other synonyms, for example:
(Audio) ....(Text)
infatti - difatti
completamente - del tutto
poverina - poveretta
temporaneamente - una volta tanto
...

French

(Re)reading:
Image
Stefan Zweig - La confusion des sentiments (1927), pages 57/124
It's the second time I read this book. It was certainly not one of my first books in French; however, at that time (I read it two years ago) I decided to start to read regularly in French. That period was quite important for my language learning. Now, I want to use all my reading experience to read it again - without any particular reason, just because I tend to return to some books. Zweig is a great author, my comprehension now is over 90% with this novel, so I can focus on details and enjoy it.
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby Robierre » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:40 pm

Week 23

Italiano

Questa settimana è stata molto impegnativa riducendo le mie attività al minimo. Con la settimana prossima finirò l'apprendimento per quest'anno; comunque, spero di trovare un po' di tempo nei giorni successivi per riassumere i risultati ottenuti nel corso di quell’anno. Così potrò meglio capire quali sarebbero i miei oggettivi per l'anno prossimo.

Ho finito il romanzo di Giorgio Bassani - Il giardino dei Finzi-Contini; era una lettura piacevole di 158 pagine fitte e un audiolibro abbastanza ben fatto.

Domenica ho incontrato un amico che non avevo visto da molto tempo; parlavamo circa un'oretta solo in italiano. Lui non essendo madrelingua, non c'era il pericolo di incontrare delle parole sconosciute e, per lo più, non ero per niente sotto pressione di non commettere un errore qualsiasi che invece potrebbe suonare strano nelle orecchie di un italiano. Cosi, in pratica, le parole uscivano dalla mia bocca senza sforzarmi tropo, non avevo bisogno di "cercarle" - se non trovo una, c’è sempre un modo di dire la stessa cosa diversamente. Queste frasi, anche se non fosseroerano sempre di uno stile molto raffinato, non impedivano la comunicazione.


Français

La télévision reste un des ressources que je n'utilise pas assez, surtout les chaines françaises. La raison pourrait être que je n'aime pas trop le zapping et le rôle passif que cette activité souvent implique. Je préfère l'utilisation ciblée - c'est à dire, d'allumer la télé avec le but précis de regarder un tel et tel programme. Ainsi, j'ai décidé de m'abonner au 2-3 chaines intéressantes (France 5, Arte...) sur facebook et de suivre les annonces pour les programmes proposés (films, reportages, documentaires) qui pourraitaient être intéressants. Du coup, je pourrai facilement choisir ce que je veux regarder.

Une conversation de cette semaine m'a rappelé de l'importance de pratiquer la langue parlée quotidiennement (ce que je ne fais pas assez fréquemment, mais j'espère de bientôt trouver une solution). C'était une de ces phrases banales que nous disons et puis on n'est pas vraiment sursûr si l'expression utilisée était exacte. "J'ai un frère, X ans plus petit". Evidemment, la solution la plus logique serait de dire: J'ai un frère, X ans plus jeune. Mais, voilà, l'expression italienne "piu' grande/piu' piccolo" m'a amené d'inventer une telle construction (qui pourrait même être correcte, je ne le sais pas).

Je suis en train d'écouter une série de radio-drames (plus ou moins un audio-livre) sur France culture; il s'agit de l'adaptation du roman Le rouge et le noire de Stendhal. Puisque j'ai lu le livre (mais pas en français) et j'ai vu le film, la série n'est pas difficile à suivre.
Last edited by Robierre on Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby Mohave » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:14 pm

Je suis en train d'écouter une série de radio-drames (plus ou moins un audio-livre) sur France culture; il s'agit de l'adaptation du roman Le rouge et le noire de Stendhal. Puisque j'ai lu le livre (mais pas en français) et j'ai vu le film, la série n'est pas difficile à suivre.[/quote]

Great find! Thanks for sharing! i am going to give it a try!
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby Robierre » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:19 pm

Mohave wrote:
Great find! Thanks for sharing! i am going to give it a try!

Hi Mohave, you can find the other episodes here. Enjoy!
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Robierre
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Re: Robierre’s French & Italian C1/2 journal

Postby Robierre » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:56 pm

Weeks 1-23 (June - December 2015)

It’s time to close this year and to sum up the results for my first six months here.


French

Intensive reading: daily articles in Nouvel Observateur; 50-100 new words daily, at least 300 weakly, which would be around 6000 during the six-month period; result: 100% (main activity)

Listening: daily France culture podcasts during commuting time (30min-60min daily, 4-5 hours weekly; cca 120 hours); result: 100%

Extensive reading: 4 books, 750 pages; result: 100%

Listening+reading: 1 book, 265 pages; result: 80% (should do it more often)

Films: 3 films, 4 hours; result 60% (this should become my main activity)

Speaking: telephone conversations, small talk, everyday activities; result: 30%

Poetry: first three poems in French, you tube video about how to pronounce poems; result: 100% (more then planned)

Langue familière/argot: intensive reading of different web articles, my first short BD; result: 50%

Writing: started to write posts on this forum; short e-mails; result: 100% (more than expected, it wasn't my priority)

Pronunciation: you tube videos, reading aloud; result: 80%

Courses: abandoned after just 3 lessons; result: 10%

TV: few times, but planning to do it more often; result: 30%

Other: 2 or 3 dreams in French (mixed with Italian) :-)


Italian

Listening+reading: 5 books, 1330 pages; result: 100% (main activity)

Reading: 2,5 books, 521 pages; result: 100%

Language course: 60 hours, 10 hours for homework; result: 100%

Films: 6 films, 10 hours; result: 100%

Listening: various conferences on You tube, radio (Rai radio 6, Damascus - 15 episodes); result: 100%

Speaking: during the lessons (incl. a 30 min presentation), with some friends; result: 40%

Grammar: Becherelle – L’italien pour tous; result: 70%

Classic self-learning: Un giorno in Italia 2 (pages: 100/350); result: 40% (planned to finish the book)

TV: Rai3; result: 80%

Dialects: first film in Napoletano, first film in Romanesco, a bit of Sicilian from Montalbano series, first book in Romanesco; result: 100%

Writing: posts on this forum, homework (essays, 300 words), chatting with friends; result: 100%
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