Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

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tungemål
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby tungemål » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:33 am

I agree, it is a waste of time to use english subs or english audio as a crutch.

chove wrote:But what if I get lost!


You will get lost, and the consensus among accomplished polyglots seems to be that one should have a high tolerance for not understanding everything. I don't have that, but I'm working on it! I will usually pause the show and rewind to check subtitles and look up words when I get lost.
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chove
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby chove » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:26 am

tungemål wrote:I agree, it is a waste of time to use english subs or english audio as a crutch.

chove wrote:But what if I get lost!


You will get lost, and the consensus among accomplished polyglots seems to be that one should have a high tolerance for not understanding everything. I don't have that, but I'm working on it! I will usually pause the show and rewind to check subtitles and look up words when I get lost.


Netflix doesn't have Spanish subs just the dub, but I have obtained the Voyager DVDs which are pretty cheap on eBay these days and hopefully they have more or less the same language options as the Deep Space Nine ones which have a number of European languages both subtitle and audio. I should probably check, now that I come to think of it.
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby chove » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:23 pm

The DVDs have both audio and subtitles in Spanish! But they don't match very well. Still, it made me pay attention to the audio and not just read the subtitles like I usually do when I watch things in Spanish. This should be helpful, as my listening abilities lag well behind my ability to read in Spanish. Anyway, I managed to follow along with most of what was happening, with a couple of pauses to Google an unknown word or phrase. Success!
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby chove » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:04 am

In terms of active studying I've only really been doing German lately, and I have just taken a few days off that for health reasons. Back now, though, and we have to learn the subjunctive. It *seems* a bit more straightforward than the Spanish subjunctive so far, but I'm going to have to go back and learn some irregular imperfect forms of verbs. (See: my complete failure to memorise things as I go along.)

Outside of my coursework I'm reading an Enid Blyton 'Famous Five' book very slowly in German, and 'A Series of Unfortunate Events: A Bad Beginning' in Spanish at a somewhat faster pace. When I feel up to concentrating I try and watch an episode of Star Trek: Voyager in Spanish. Last time I was doing pretty well but then I didn't understand a few sentences in a row and went to the English subtitles to check what had just happened. The subtitles remained on, so that wasn't ideal I just got really into the story. Oops.
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby chove » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:26 pm

I must now learn the German imperfect properly, since I need to know that for the subjunctive. Better to take some time to focus on that than to continue semi-blindly. Which is what I usually do. I really do lack discipline in studying. Oh well, maybe I can learn.
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby chove » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:25 am

Finished 'A Bad Beginning' in Spanish last night, it was much more enjoyable than Harry Potter and has less weird vocabulary about wizards. I had worried that there's a bit of wordplay in Lemony Snicket's books, but I did okay with it (I think). I think that's the second "proper book" (ie not a graded reader or biliingual text) that I've finished in Spanish. Feel nice, like I have actually got somewhere with learning Spanish. :D
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby tungemål » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:50 am

chove wrote:I must now learn the German imperfect properly, since I need to know that for the subjunctive. Better to take some time to focus on that than to continue semi-blindly. Which is what I usually do. I really do lack discipline in studying. Oh well, maybe I can learn.


You mean the Präteritum? And the Konjunktiv? I guess the Spanish subjunctive is more or less the same as the German konjunktiv, but I don't know why the terms are different.

I find the präteritum quite intuitive as it is almost the same as in Norwegian. It is often also similar to English past tense:
Ich hatte - I had
Ich sah - I saw
Ich war - I was
Ich kam - I came

The konjunktiv however, can get quite complex, depending on how deep into the grammar you go. I am still afraid of the konjunktiv uses. But ordinary use is not hard fortunately - usually the form würde + infinitive is used: Ich würde lesen instead of Ich läse.
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chove
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby chove » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:30 pm

tungemål wrote:I am still afraid of the konjunktiv uses. But ordinary use is not hard fortunately - usually the form würde + infinitive is used: Ich würde lesen instead of Ich läse.


Can I do that in all situations?
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tungemål
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby tungemål » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:08 pm

Let's see, I have to get out my grammar book...

You need to learn these forms for Konjunktiv II:
haben - hätte
sein - wäre
können - könnte
dürfen - dürfte
müssen - müsste
wollen - wollte
sollen - sollte

For the rest you use würde+infinitiv.

Richard Simcott has a tip that I think is good in this case: instead of memorizing conjugations, learn how you say things you need to say. Konjunktiv II is used in certain situations, for instance when you want to be polite:
- Könnten Sie mir helfen? - Could you help me?
- Ich hätte gern... - I would like... (in the restaurant)
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Re: Chove's Log (Spanish, German, Polish, French)

Postby gsbod » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:23 pm

Konjunktiv II is really nothing to be afraid of. I think maybe calling it the subjunctive is leading you to unhelpful comparisons with the Romance languages which makes it feel like a bigger deal than it actually is. In terms of meaning and usage I think it fits more in the domain of the use of the conditional in Romance languages.

In terms of the form, the main thing is you need to memorise the Konjunktiv II forms for sein, haben, werden and the modal verbs, and then for everything else you should be ok using the Konjunktiv II of werden (würden) with the infinitive. You may occasionally encounter other verbs in Konjunktiv II form, e.g. gäben, but these are quite unusual.

Konjunktiv I is rather a bit more fun, although totally different usage to Konjunktiv II so maybe I shouldn't go down that rabbit hole just yet.
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