idk what, but probably Czech again (back after a long hiatus)

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Via Diva
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idk what, but probably Czech again (back after a long hiatus)

Postby Via Diva » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:32 pm

Okay, first things first: this log is practically useless for you if you haven't seen the one on the original HTLAL here. This is the main reason why I am so reluctant when I think about moving here (other factors are - you won't believe it, but I don't like the mobile version of this forum, I always hit the wrong spots even if I zoom it really hard).
So, basically, the log I linked remains to be my main one. However, the activity I plan to be busy with during 6WC requires maximal feedback, and I have time to monitor both forums (unlike some, who claim to have abandoned the original HTLAL for good).

Not so shocking for people who don't know me, but I really chose Czech as my main TL for the 6WC which starts tomorrow. As usual, if you ask me why, I won't be able to answer properly. It helps when I am fed up with the language and want to pause it, but it's not good from the point of being consistent. And since my hopes are high (achieving A2-B1 due to Czech being similar to my native Russian), I will have to work, and work a lot.

I'll add a list of stuff I can use later, and I welcome ANY recommendations, especially the music ones :)
Last edited by Via Diva on Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: zu verrückt für euch (Rätsel|Adv|En TAC’15): German, Czech...

Postby Via Diva » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:37 pm

I guess I am somewhat damned by a lot of different stuff. My internship is over, and though I am going to miss the place and the people who are working at the organisation, I welcome things like a better eating/ sleep schedule. So, today I tried to read Herr aller Dinge again and I only stopped because I didn't want to dedicate too much time to German. Then I tried L-Ring Harry Potter a kámen mudrců with Russian text/Czech audio and that was the time for me to fall dead asleep. I guess, waking up at 4 for a week also helped, yet still I know I've been prone to falling asleep while reading even when my sleep schedule wasn't impaired.
I still consider focusing at L-R though. It's harder than I thought, maybe due to the reader, maybe simply because Czech is too unfamiliar, but somehow it only motivates me more.
I plan to use a speakASAP course at some point, but right now I want to give a try to a Чешский для русскоговорящих, a textbook written in time when the relationship between the USSR and Czech speakers was thought to be much better. I know it's not the best choice, but from what I've seen in the speakASAP course so far, I won't keep up to the speed and I need to be prepared, i.e. learn how to pronounce and read and learn some vocabulary.
I desperately need some music. But I can listen to Musik auf Deutsch too, hehe.

So, overall, it's a lazy first day. I hope I can be more productive. Nothing works better for me than a good 6WC, and it's in my power to make it good.
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Re: zu verrückt für euch (Rätsel|Adv|En TAC’15): German, Czech...

Postby Cavesa » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:39 pm

I think the reader might be to blame a bit. I don't like this audiobook too much either. Many people love it, the actor (Lábus reads it, I think) is very popular. However, I think he is sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow, I dislike the way he changes voices for some of the characters (Hermione in particular). However, the translation is of very good quality overall.

Yes, Czech and Russian are not as easy to switch between at the beginnings of studies, I cannot read the Lukyanenko so far either ;-)

Careful about that old course though. There are Czech courses with a Russian version available (and some downloadable), don't accidentally learn to address people "soudruhu" and such things, that might cause you troubles :-D

I will look into some Czech music for you, even though I do not listen to it much. But I've still got some favourites.
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Re: zu verrückt für euch (Rätsel|Adv|En TAC’15): German, Czech...

Postby Via Diva » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:10 pm

He just sounds too funny sometimes (like it's not enough to hear to order instead of to forbid, hahaaa), let alone the speed. Yet I am going to bear with him, he's not all that bad (I listened to 4 chapters so far), and nothing will beat that ridiculously slow bloke who read Der Graf von Monte-Christo.

Yeah, I will probably drop it anyway, since not all the sentences used there in the very first lesson are translated.
__________________
Since I only did the half of that first lesson, I finished it today, and it was mostly about reading and mít. Reading makes me literally dizzy, all these long and short vowels, the temptation to shift the accent to the long vowel if the first is short, consonant clusters (although that is actually fine, it's like I've been granted the right to swallow the vowels which I normally shouldn't swallow in Russian).
And I already forgot the forms of mít, hihi, except for mám, máš, má, mají. Considering that I've seen them somewhat earlier before while checking out the speakASAP course, this can be yet another potential headache for me.
The funniest thing from today though is that I already tried translating stuff, but given up even with the song which was already translated in English (I was translating in Russian).

A small bonus for Russian learners, since I study Czech from Russian:
Хотя чешский местами и похож на русский, основные элементы языков сильно отличаются. Интересно видеть, как в языке славянской группы тоже могут быть важны глаголы "быть" и "иметь". Также интересна "лень", из-за которой не используются личные местоимения. Да, на русском тоже можно часто слышать "скоро буду" (budu brzy), но все-таки в русском опущенные местоимения - скорее исключение, чем правило.
Также произношение очень сильно меняет мелодию языка. Неудивительно, что речь кажется просто смешной, прежде всего потому, что во многих общих словах сместились ударения. Однако, при желании всегда можно найти что-то смешное в иностранном языке:
- Wohin fährst du?
- Nach Deutschland...
И все эти смешные моменты перестают быть таковыми, потому что человек ко всему привыкает.
Важно, однако, не заказать себе ирокез в парикмахерской, а запретить его... но это уже совсем другой разговор :)
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Re: zu verrückt für euch (Rätsel|Adv|En TAC’15): German, Czech...

Postby Via Diva » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:21 am

Nothing evaluates your progress as good as trying to write sentences from words you've learned in Memrise.
Yeah, I am exaggerating, yet still. This
Image
took me 15 minutes and extensive use of wikitionary. Which makes me think that I should throw the old textbook away. I sat with it for 25 minutes yesterday, I've learned that there are diphthongs, that consonants deafen even fore often than in Russian, looked at three verbs, tried to do the reading exercise - I wonder whether I am ever going to read good enough and not think of Russian - but then the next task was to insert the right forms of verbs into the sentences and I knew I was exhausted. Sometimes I think these books were written for geniuses - but probably I just need to concentrate. Frankly, yesterday wasn't a good day for studies for various reasons, and probably I am being too harsh, but I just don't know anymore. I need something like Michel Thomas, but I never saw a course for Czech, so gotta cope without that.
I also wonder when the hell would Czech vocabulary stop to make me roar with laughter. Czech hospod means pub, and the closest words in Russian are господин (mister) and господь (god). Or, horký, which sounds like Russian bitter, but means hot.
Image
Yet some things look like sort of forgotten past for Russian. Remember the example with to order and to forbid? I tweeted this:
Russian zakazat' means to order, Czech zakázat means to forbid. However! "Vam put' zakazan" in Russian means "You can't do that"

The response was that among the words for to order in Czech are these: poručit, nakázat. So... in Russian nakazat' means to punish, poruchit' means to delegate.

Maybe we should all just learn Slovio? xD
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Re: zu verrückt für euch (Rätsel|Adv|En TAC’15): German, Czech...

Postby Kazumi » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:37 pm

Last time I was following your log in the old forum, you were learning French. Now that I can subscribe to your log, I will follow it without losing the track.

I think it will be interesting to see you learning Czech and Cavesa learning Russian. At the moment I am particularly interested in false friends among Slavic languages.

For example, last week I came across these words:

град, город – city hrad – castle
злодей – villain zloděj – thief
хитрый – cunning chytrý – intelligent
позор – shame pozor – attention
овощи – vegetables ovoce – fruit

I found funny getting to know some of false friends:

https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5:%D0%9B%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B7%D1%8C%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0_(%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%88%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9)

http://www.languages-study.com/cesky-false-friends.html
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Via Diva
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Re: zu verrückt für euch (Rätsel|Adv|En TAC’15): German, Czech...

Postby Via Diva » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:56 am

You missed a brief period of me trying to learn Esperanto :)
But, anyway, always good to have a follower, especially as awesome as you - I can't believe you consider your Russian to be weak still, when you can write in it on such a good level that I don't think that giving corrections in English is the best thing to do.

And thanks for the link to the "false friends vocab", it seems to be huge enough to provide me with hours of laughing :)
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I can't believe how lazy I am sometimes without noticing that. I only did L-R and a bit of Memrise yesterday. Memrise is going to be bad for me, I think, just as it was both good and bad for me in case of German. But let's hope the similarities between vocabularies will help. It's not ALL false friends, after all... but I can't help wondering when the hell will I stop to be so amused.
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Re: zu verrückt für euch (Rätsel|Adv|En TAC’15): German, Czech...

Postby Via Diva » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:07 am

Lazy day again yesterday, but considering that I spend most of it at my grandparents I guess it's fine. After all, I did the daily goal in Memrise, even with less mistakes (which I mostly have because I do stuff before thinking) than usual, listened to some music (it's still hours and hours of listening, so maybe "some" is an understatement), L-Red a chapter - which gets easier even though I it doesn't help with my feelings towards the reader, which are either slightly negative or neutral at best.
And to hell with the old textbook. I got Čeština expres 1 and 2, more modern self-teaching textbook, two guides from some Belarusian university (it's said that there is a load of mistakes, but I need an overview of grammar like in Deutsche Grammatik mit menschlichem Antlitz, or in that book on French grammar with hilarious comments to example sentences, which were so funny I shared some screenshots - btw there is the same kind of book for Italian, so if your Russian is good and you want to look at a language's grammar from Russian POV, PM me and I'll give you directions). I even got another recommendation from the source that started all this adventure, but considering that I listened to one certain live version of Kometa, I should've figured it out by myself, haha.
By the way, I don't remember having shared the example of my... let's be honest, not beautiful, but just neat Czech handwriting (click the pic for FHD):
Image
Today I have some things to do, tomorrow some other plans intervene... I really have no idea when will I start to study normally, haha. But do I even need to do anything normally? :)
P.S. German is not forgotten. A bit of chatting yesterday, a long message which I was bound to count as writing for 6WC... and, of course, singing, hehe. Don't worry, I won't try to throw the recordings or stupid ideas for monthly challenges again.
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Re: zu verrückt für euch (Rätsel|Adv|En TAC’15): German, Czech...

Postby 1e4e6 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:41 am

Nice to see someone else in Czech too. I started last week actual serious study. Is there some kind of group for Czech? I study Spanish and we always seem to have a lot of separate groups for us.

How do you find Czech? I started Russian about a month ago and when I started Czech I immediately noticed something when they introduced the personal pronouns. Then vocabulary, and other stuff.
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Re: zu verrückt für euch (Rätsel|Adv|En TAC’15): German, Czech...

Postby Via Diva » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:14 am

Spanish is way more popular though. But there has to be something for Czech somewhere. After all, I found some good communities on vk.com, one of them is really very nice for a student like me, hehe.
Czech is a bit alien so far, because the major elements are different. Yeah, the personal pronouns are the same, but the use of mít and být wrecks a lot when you want to build some parallels between Russian and Czech. Well, you can insert forms of быть in a Russian sentence, but that wouldn't sound good, this is something one has to get used to. For you, of course, я есть учитель is easier than я учитель, but for me it's not like that. And while false friends make me laugh all the time - I tell about them to everyone who wants to listen, hehe - they might be quite confusing if you study Czech and Russian simultaneously, especially if the levels of the knowledge of the languages are about the same. The same goes about the pronunciation - Czech deafens more consonants than Russian, but there's no vowel reduction, and this is just a part of the differences parade.
Some things do feel really close though. I guess this is my main motivation - while I require some music to listen and movies to watch, I am extremely interested whether I can learn a language like Czech fast, what can I achieve in one 6WC and so on. I have no idea whatsoever what use it might be in practical life (Does anyone know about the environmental/ industrial ecology in Czech Republik? Is there some free education or well-paid work to do? hehe), but neither do I have any solid ideas for German or really any other languages I studied. Except English, of course.
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