"SGP's" gradually learning some languages log

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SGP
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What do you like to know about PT RO SWA SV NO DA NL AF JP EO?

Postby SGP » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:04 pm

[PT] [RO] [SWA] [SV] [NO] [DA] [NL] [AF] [JP][EO]

Usually I simply would post something about the ongoing learning progress related to any of my list's languages. But today it is about something different. Today I'd like to know if there are any general and broad-scope topics related to any of those that you'd like to be covered here. Any of those mentioned at the beginning of this post.

Because if you ask a question of that kind, then there is another good reason to continue with that specific language.

(At the time I was writing this post, it was about the languages mentioned in its beginning. "Nowadays", I wouldn't post anything similar again. Nevertheless, if there is anything anyone would like me to cover in this log about any of my learning languages, I could try to do so.)
Last edited by SGP on Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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devilyoudont
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Re: Introduction & 13 languages (reading/writing) log & language exchange offer [PT IT RO FR ES SV NO DA SWA JP EO NL AF

Postby devilyoudont » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:22 am

SGP wrote:JP speakers: The u of "desu" in this sentence is usually not pronounced. But is there any situation where you do pronounce it?


This is called devoicing, if you want to search for it. There are dialects where the devoicing is either more or less pronounced. Within standard dialect, not devoicing the u in desu is fairly feminine, in my opinion.

SGP wrote:But both approaches have a rather similar result. So in a certain way, the difference is about:
- A short pause of speech between those parts (Chinese), or not pausing when saying a "building blocks" word (Japanese, Swahili, Esperanto)
- Writing a whitespace (" ") between two parts (Chinese using the Latin alphabet, like Pinyin), or not doing so when it comes to one of those "construction kit" words (Japanese, Swahili, Esperanto).


It may be important to know later in your studies, particularly when it comes to pronunciation, there are changes in stress that occur in both Japanese and Esperanto when words are compounded. Other phonetic changes may occur in Japanese (to be expected in a natural language). Rendaku is an example that comes to mind (hito + hito = hitobito).
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SGP
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Re: Introduction & 13 languages (reading/writing) log & language exchange offer [PT IT RO FR ES SV NO DA SWA JP EO NL AF

Postby SGP » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:46 am

So if not devoicing the u can sound rather feminine, I guess this is yet another of several details that gaijin like me ;) wouldn't see at first glance. Other examples of those details would include:

- Women who refer to themselves as boku somehow act like men.

- But also men who call themselves boku are telling something else than those using plain watashi.

- Something different, but not entirely unrelated to this Japanese language topic: There are English (well, sort of) terms that have been introduced by Japanese speakers, like "salariman", meaning "someone who receives salary", i.e. a paid worker.
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SGP
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Re: Introduction & 13 languages (reading/writing) log & language exchange offer [PT IT RO FR ES SV NO DA SWA JP EO NL AF

Postby SGP » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:23 am

Language Cooking

Explaining that previous "This Message Is Not Spam" post which seemed rather strange even to me, and I am the one who wrote it :lol:

That "Language Cooking" is about micro-learning these languages and familiarizing oneself with them:

Finnish, Russian, Turkish, (Mandarin) Chinese, Korean, Indonesian

And this is the direct link to the new log:

https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9316

But the main log (the thread you are reading right now) is still active. I did not quit it.

(There is a number of posts that I later made in that Language Cooking Log. But after some time, I merged it with the multi-language log. This means that from now on, I would only post anything Micro Learning Related here, not there.)
Last edited by SGP on Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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vonPeterhof
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Re: Introduction & 13 languages (reading/writing) log & language exchange offer [PT IT RO FR ES SV NO DA SWA JP EO NL AF

Postby vonPeterhof » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:12 am

SGP wrote:The u of "desu" in this sentence is usually not pronounced. But is there any situation where you do pronounce it?

In addition to what devilyoudont said, vowel devoicing happens between voiceless consonants, so the u of "desu" would be pronounced if it's immediately followed by a voiced consonant. An especially common mistake among learners from a Russian-speaking background is treating the u as non-existent in all cases, and then, due to our tendency to voice consonants before other voiced consonants, this leads to mispronouncing phrases like "desu ga" as "dezga".

- Women who refer to themselves as boku somehow act like men.
It should be noted that this practically never happens outside of fiction, including pop songs. And in pop songs usually the reason for using it isn't to sound more masculine, but simply the fact that "boku" has fewer syllables than "(w)atashi" and thus often easier to fit into lyrics.
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SGP
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Re: Introduction & 13 languages (reading/writing) log & language exchange offer [PT IT RO FR ES SV NO DA SWA JP EO NL AF

Postby SGP » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:30 am

vonPeterhof wrote:
- Women who refer to themselves as boku somehow act like men.
It should be noted that this practically never happens outside of fiction, including pop songs. And in pop songs usually the reason for using it isn't to sound more masculine, but simply the fact that "boku" has fewer syllables than "(w)atashi" and thus often easier to fit into lyrics.


I wasn't aware how often women would call themselves boku. All I knew about this one is that there is a term called bokukko for those who do. But what I did know is that it isn't always that easy to imagine the "typical" Japanese woman to act like a man anyway. Now this is about the "typical" and traditional one, others could differ.

And if I recall correctly, watashi, although longer than boku, is a short form for watakushi or similar.
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Jaleel10
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Re: Introduction & 13 languages (reading/writing) log & language exchange offer [PT IT RO FR ES SV NO DA SWA JP EO NL AF

Postby Jaleel10 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:39 am

Edit: Seems I may have fucked up. I decided to delete what you wrote. Apologies, again.

Es que cuando empecé a estudiar el español, los únicos recursos que tenía estaban en español de españa. Hace 5 meses, me uní a un servidor de Discord llamado '' English-Spanish Learning Server''. En este servidor encontré a muchos hispanohablantos de varios países de américa latina, hice muchos amigos y la verdad es que me llevo muy bien con ellos. Y claro, no podía evitar aprender su jerga y su manera de hablar y escribir xD. Pero el 'problema' es que hice amigos con muchos españoles también, ya que uso mucho vocabulario español, el vosotros y la distinción y pues, les caigo muy bien y ellos están orgullos de que alguien aprenda su dialecto xD (no me preguntes por qué). Pero siempre me 'regañan' por usar vocabulario argentino y mexicano y siempre tengo que decirles que 'Es el mismo idioma, no importa dónde se hable. Voy a hablarlo como a mí me apetezca'

Sé que es una historia estúpida y chistosa pero hay que practicar el español escrito xD
Last edited by Jaleel10 on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SGP
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Re: Introduction & 13 languages (reading/writing) log & language exchange offer [PT IT RO FR ES SV NO DA SWA JP EO NL AF

Postby SGP » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:17 am

[EDIT: Removed a certain passage of my post because it was mainly only relevant to one member, and then he edited his post anyway. And as I already told him via PM a long time ago, he didn't mess it up at all and I am happy to know him. If he would decide to remove his notice in the post above this one, I would even like to change this EDIT to another one not mentioning anything about that past little matter.]

Jaleel10 wrote:Es que cuando empecé a estudiar el español, los únicos recursos que tenía estaban en español de españa. Hace 5 meses, me uní a un servidor de Discord llamado '' English-Spanish Learning Server''. En este servidor encontré a muchos hispanohablantos de varios países de américa latina, hice muchos amigos y la verdad es que me llevo muy bien con ellos. Y claro, no podía evitar aprender su jerga y su manera de hablar y escribir xD.


Eso es natural.

Jaleel10 wrote: Pero el 'problema' es que hice amigos con muchos españoles también, ya que uso mucho vocabulario español, el vosotros y la distinción y pues, les caigo muy bien y ellos están orgullos de que alguien aprenda su dialecto xD (no me preguntes por qué).


No te pregunto. :)

Jaleel10 wrote: Pero siempre me 'regañan' por usar vocabulario argentino y mexicano y siempre tengo que decirles que 'Es el mismo idioma, no importa dónde se hable. Voy a hablarlo como a mí me apetezca'


Tu acceptas la idea de la mezcla de los dialectos.
Pero has dicho (en Inglés, en un post aquí) que unos otros no la acceptan.
Entonces, lo que quiero saber es: Por qué motivos los otros tienen una altra vista sobre esta cosa? Porqué no quieren esta manera de hablar?
Last edited by SGP on Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jaleel10
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Re: Introduction & 13 languages (reading/writing) log & language exchange offer [PT IT RO FR ES SV NO DA SWA JP EO NL AF

Postby Jaleel10 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:02 am

Pues, te pido disculpas, pero quería publicarlo aquí para que un hispanohablante me corregiese. La próxima vez te voy a pedir jaja, me he dajado llevar xD. Pero me aseguré de que no escribieses ninguna información personal.

Entonces, lo que quiero saber es: Por qué motivos los otros tienen una altra vista sobre esta cosa? Porqué no quieren esta manera de hablar?


No creo que lo digan en serio jaja, sólo me toman el pelo. Pero sí creo que muchos hispanohablantes están orgullosos de su propio dialecto. Eso es algo que me mola mucho :)
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SGP
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Re: Introduction & 13 languages (reading/writing) log & language exchange offer [PT IT RO FR ES SV NO DA SWA JP EO NL AF

Postby SGP » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:18 am

[EDIT: Removed a certain passage from this post because it was mainly relevant to one particular member who then edited his post anyway.]

Jaleel10 wrote:No creo que lo digan en serio jaja, sólo me toman el pelo. Pero sí creo que muchos hispanohablantes están orgullosos de su propio dialecto. Eso es algo que me mola mucho :)


Ahora es más claro para mí.

¿Ellos beben el jugo de la caña de azúcar?
Last edited by SGP on Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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