Not all those who wander are lost

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sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:34 pm

Horrid yellow sun and grey sky from smoke all day yesterday. I walked at the mall. My eyes burned whenever I was outside. I wonder if it will rain this winter. We are almost to the part of the year where rain might be possible...
The mall had a lot of people roaming around in it, but everybody had masks on. I got word from my health care provider that I will be eligible for a booster shot in a few months. When I look at the extended family in the Philippines, where we only have two people out of the hundred or so in the extended family vaccinted, I have the first-world problem of feeling guilty about getting a booster. :shock:

I have been playing with my big mixed up Spanish and French deck, while have a lot of problems producing the correct language sometimes, getting them confused occasionally, I think that I am getting better. Of course this doesn't prove that this is reducing overall interference; it just suggests that the interference reduces for the words studied.

The same effect might happen just by studying each language more, whether the languages are mixed or not.
3 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

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sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:51 am

I had one of the great days of my life today, and I'm not sure why. Took my wife and daughter to their schools and came home. The wind has shifted and the sky is blue. The smoke is gone. I started my morning walk, and for some reason I felt very awkward, like my legs were put on backwards or something. While I was walking, a pair of geese blasted by honking, at a low enough level that I could hear their wings flapping. A squirrel started screaming at something, a cat I think that was walking by the squirrel's tree. I suddenly realized that I was happy. My legs straightened out and I finished my walk fast and smooth. I did my little weight lifting, and the AI from google started a playlist. Usually it is horrible; I am not the demographic it is used to dealing with. ON the third song I realized that I had tears running down my face for the shear beauty of the music.
It was Hans Zimmer's "Time" from the "Live in Prague" album. I don't think that it was the music as much as it was my mood. Blue sky, good exercise, and good music put me into a state where I was just very happy to be alive... I realized that I have been a little sad for a long time.

While I was in this mood, I decided to stop beating my head against new languages for a while.

Any one language is a lifetime's work. Heck, English is certainly worth a lifetime of study for a native speaker. I've seen Samoan chiefs devote their life to Samoan. I am fascinated by Icelandic, Irish, and Old English, but I haven't finished wifh Spanish and especially French. Heck, I have barely started on English.

I listened to a half hour and read 21 pages of García-Márquez today. It was nice. I'm going to finish 10 000 pages of Spanish as I started out to do. I have about 2 000 pages to go. Then I'm gonna finish 10 000 pages of French. I have about 8 000 to go.
I moved cards around in my anki deck, so that I will finish both my old _Using Spanish_ deck and my new _Using Spanish deck before I see a French card. Then I will finally complete my _French with Ease_ deck. I am going to shadow through Spanish and French Assimil. Much of this will be easy, but it is all stuff I should have finished years ago.
I'm not going to start a new language. I'm not. I mean it. I'm serious...

I did look at some Danish today, and it was very cool to see that I could recognize words from the little bit of Icelandic I know. Do you know that Danish is sort of mutually intelligible with Swedish and Norwegian? Do you know that there are a bunch of people in Greeenland who speak Danish? It is sort of an official language in the Faroe islands. A lot of people seem to speak Danish in "Trapped" on Netflix. Do you know that some of the people who might read this post can speak this wonderful language?
Last edited by sfuqua on Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
14 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

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luke
Brown Belt
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Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby luke » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:21 am

Thanks for sharing your good day. You have me smiling now. It wasn't that way before.
3 x

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sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:16 pm

About my good day. I know with my mind that I am a very, very lucky person. Yesterday, I seemed to realize it in my bones. I am blessed.

About my little mixed vocabulary experiment... I don't think there is anything profound to discover in that direction. I definitely was getting better at straightening out the similar words in the two languages, but I believe that there wasn't any transfer to the rest of the language. For me, I think, as I've said before, that interference is just another error. Interference means that you have to learn the language better. What can be confusing for someone who knows several languages is that interference is mostly a problem in the "active" direction. For full fledged comprehension of a book or a movie, I think most people don't experience much interference while listening or reading.

My daughter is in a play that's coming up. She keeps mentioning a semester abroad program at her school. She keeps speaking German to us around the house, which isn't very effective since nobody else speaks it. She is really enjoying school and language learning. She and her friends are running around the school shouting insults at each other in German. She adores her German teacher. Maybe I've got to learn enough German to understand what she is talking about around the house. I enjoy the fact that she seems to have inherited the language bug from her parents. I know a couple of languages and my wife speaks three at a very high level.

I'm happy...
10 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:07 pm

Well... I'm going to talk about my kid, which will sound like bragging, but it is language related.

I'm really psyched. My daughter seems to have talked her way into a "summer student tour" of Germany next summer. :o It is usually for slightly older kids, but she seems to have done it. Her German is obvioiusly exploding right now. She is making a speech in class today, which seems to be about 10 minutes long. She is practicing it first, of course, but it sounds good to me. I hear a strong American accent, but what do I know. I think her teacher is excellent. He got her interested in pounding her way through Duolingo last summer, which seems to have set her off. He has been teaching the kids a bit of grammar, but he is having them learn "language islands" (Shekhtman) also. Her friends seem to be learning a lot too. She is starting to get pushy about taking over the TV to watch stuff in German, although I don't think she understands much. The best I can tell, she has big holes in her vocabulary, as is natural at this stage. I suppose that this is not surrprising; she is probably a typical "just reaching intermediate level German" kid, but it is happening so fast... You may live in a country where it is unsurprising to have students actually learn a language in school, but I can assure you that it is pretty rare here in the States.

The important thing is that she seems to fanatically interested in German, which will take her a long way.

I'm so happy for her. I think German is going to change her life. :D Who would have thought you would run into an inspiring German teacher in a high school in San Jose, California. :lol:

So... My daughter tells me that 16 year olds can drink beer in a bar in Germany if they are accompanied by an adult. The tour outlaws alcohol for kids, but I know human nature...

Anyway, if you are in Germany next summer, and a 16 year old girl with an American accent, who looks a bit like Olivia Rodrigo if they fed her enough, asks in German if you could buy her and her Vietnamese friend (my daughter's best friend and fellow German student) a beer, it is probably my daughter. You have her father's permission to buy her one beer if you want to. But only one, then chase her back to her tour group. :D
17 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:53 am

I've been mostly just trying to get through my old assimil courses, although I went back to studying French and Spanish each day instead of just finishing Spanish before doing anyhing else. The whole idea of finishing a language is ridiculous anyway.
I really miss Irish and icelandic, and I wonder how long I can do without them... :o

The wind has kept the smoke away from us the past few days, and the weather has been beautiful. On one of my walks I passed by the tree of one of our noisier squirrels. I noticed that my neighbor was talking to the squirrel, but she was using Spanish. I thought the squirrel only understood English.

I guess it makes sense that squirrels in San Jose would know both Spanish and English.

Now back to watching Miraculous on Netflix in German with my daughter...

I wonder what languages the crows understand. This brings up a new strategy for language practice... :lol:
7 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

DaveAgain
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1961
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Languages: English (native), French & German (learning).
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:18 pm

sfuqua wrote:So... My daughter tells me that 16 year olds can drink beer in a bar in Germany if they are accompanied by an adult. The tour outlaws alcohol for kids, but I know human nature...
Beer and sausages seem to have a special place in German culture.
2 x

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:12 am

Well the discussion with Cavesa and others https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17187&p=194489#p194489 helped to clarify some issues for me. My first two language, which I learned to high levels, Samoan and Tagalog, were learned completely for their practical value. I lived in cournty and I wanted to talk to people. Both were extremely rewarding, and I went through a few years just enjoying them until about 10 years ago.
When I started learning languages again, the thing that keeps me going now, is that magic feeling when you hear another language and understand it, or when you produce another language and see that somebody understands you. It is completely for the feelings I get when studying and when using languages. A magic feeling that has nothing to do with anything practical... I love to see my universe expand as I read or listen. I listened to Spanish for about an hour today, and I know what the book was about... Magic... :o

Weather has been great for walking, and the smoke is light enough to go outside most days. The glass is half full. :D A couple of birds almost landed on my shoulders today. (I think this onehttps://www.pacificnorthwestbirds.com/2012/10/31/little-executioner-the-dark-eyed-junco/). They were so busy interacting with each other that they didn't seem to notice me walk up. I stopped a couple feet away from where they were playing on some low branches and held still. They flew around my head a couple of times and then flew away. They never showed any sign that they noticed I wasn't a tree. :D

I also figured out why I have been having trouble keeping my interest up with modern languages. Lately I have been trying to learn Spanish and French, and one of the techniques I use is that I alternate which language I am working on daily. On Spanish day, I set everything in my Internet connectivity to Spanish. I wastch news in Spanish, I read news in Spanish, I shop in Spanish, I interact with my phone in Spanish...and there is the problem. I can't stomach the news very well.

During covid, after the recent US election, I realized that the news channels and the Internet were driving me insane. These sources exist to keep you hysterical and connected, so that you will watch their ads. If they can figure a way to get you excited and angry, they will do it. This is mostly a waste of time. I generally don't need anybody to tell me when to get excited. We have a five minute rule for the 24 hour news channels in my house...5 minutes and then turn it off. I read some editorials. I try to get the facts. Anyway, I got my news diet under control in English, but I never payed any attention to what I read or listen to in Spanish or French. I was falling back into my old habits in these languages, consuming news designed to drive me crazy (so I'll keep seeing their ads), and so whenever I would switch to them, I would start to fill my brain with things that I can do nothing about and which upset me. I need to curate my input from news and the Internet just as much in my L2s as I do in my L1.

I've got to read a lot more if I am going to have any shot at finishing the Superchallenge.
Of course I could just finish it a couple of months late :lol:
Last edited by sfuqua on Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
7 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:33 am

Oh, in case anybody is wondering, "what about the whale road?" Irish, Icelandic, and Old English?" Well, I'm trying to keep those in the background of my brain and just do a few cards each day.

I could go back to full Whale Road at any second. I really, really want to. :o

Gee, I could increase the card number and get moving again easily... :D
4 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

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IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
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Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby IronMike » Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:34 am

sfuqua wrote:Oh, in case anybody is wondering, "what about the whale road?" Irish, Icelandic, and Old English?" Well, I'm trying to keep those in the background of my brain and just do a few cards each day.

I could go back to full Whale Road at any second. I really, really want to. :o

Gee, I could increase the card number and get moving again easily... :D

Following your language log has been making me want to restart my short-lived Old English study. ;)
1 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
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