Not all those who wander are lost

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IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby IronMike » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:24 am

iguanamon wrote:To all those who are not American, "Black Friday" is not an official holiday- it's a made up media name.

Thank you. Finally.

No, Black Friday is NOT a holiday. It's horrible. Stay home.
2 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

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sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:51 am

Sorry, if there was any confusion. I thought I didn't need to explain it since it is pretty widespread. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(shopping)
I have never in my life entered a store on Black Friday. I think it is a stupid idea. I would hope that any greeting of Happy Black Friday would be seen as sarcasm.

It did not exist when I was a kid; I think most people didn't get Friday off after Thanksgiving. I seem to remember Dad going back to work while I stayed home.
1 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

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sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:26 am

With all of the Black Friday message, I kind of buried the lead on that post where I talked about the ODA from the US Defense Language Institute. :o

The tests are much longer and more general than the short little tests on Dialang. It makes sense that a 2 hour test would do a better job than the little 30 question tests on dialang. If one has to get feedback on their language level from an online test, the ODA seems to be in a class of its own. Dialang seems to be built around a small set of topics, ODA has everything under the sun in it. Topics were all over the place, and it seemed to be more in depth than dialang. The test was clearly adaptive.
I only took the reading test so far, but the listening test sounds like it may be quite similar. I'll try it one of these days. I bet I'll be somewhere around a 2 on it, since my speaking and listening are well below my reading ability. :D

Anyway, I got a 3 or higher as my score on reading, which is probably either a B2 or C1 or higher on the CEFR. It is reassuring to have proof that I have actually learned something, and am not just deluding myself somehow. :lol:

I'll have to take the French tests sometime too. I am substantially lower in this language and it might be interesting to see how this would score... :D

I also see that they have Tagalog as a language they test. I definitely can speak much, much better in Tagalog than I do in either Spanish or French, but I haven't really done that much reading in Tagalog. I haven't really had any trouble reading what I needed to read, but who knows? :?

The one thing that would stop me from doing a bunch of these tests is that they take quite a bit of time and effort. With the wide scope of the tests, there really isn't anything to study for to get ready, but it does take a lot of effort for a couple of hours to do one. :o

Anyhow, if a person wanted to test their ability, unofficially and online, in one of the languages that ODA covers, ODA is the best thing I've ever seen. :D
8 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:49 pm

Well...
I got a 2 in French reading, which is right about where I thought I was. :D
The charts show this as a B2 in reading, but it feels more like a B1 to me, but what do I know about the CEFR...
I seem to suck at grasping the main point of texts. Most of these questions were open ended, and I'm always suspicious of machine scored open ended questions, but when I read about their process for building a system for machine scoring, I was reassured that it is as good a process as you could have for machine scoring. :D
Anyway... I've got some work to do to upgrade my French. :shock:

I've been trying to talk myself into going "French-only" for a few months. Of course, I was completely convinced when I got up this morning to give up all these big, world languages and just get on the "whale road" again. :lol:

Ah, Old Norse and Old English.... Not to mention Irish. :D

With the covid news these days, I wonder if I'll ever travel again :cry:

I should look at the glass half full, or course. I have had a wonderful life with many adventures around the world already. :D

But it is such a big world, and there is so little time to see it in one lifetime...
7 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:31 am

I only did Old English, Irish, and Norse today, but I thought about Spanish and French.

I have been fooling around with Spanish for about 10 years starting from zero, and I have been fooling around with French for about 5 years.

I am at an advanced level in Spanish and an intermediate level in French. I have learned these languages only by studying; I haven't lived in a place where I would use them all the time for more than a few days for either language.

I would say that my Spanish stopped improving pretty much completely when I added French and that my French progress has been very slow, although I have learned something. I have never been very fanatical about putting in hours of effort with either language, but I've done something at least half of the days. I have interrupted my French learning over and over again by playing around with other languages, just like I did today.

Considering my half-baked approach, I think my progress has been pretty good.
Anyway I think that I can say with some confidence that language learning in ones 60s is possible. I don't think I am particularly bright; if I can do it, most people can do it. I suspect older learners worry about looking foolish, or they just get discouraged by advice they get. I am amused that most of the physicians I have talked to, seem to think that I am delusional thinking that I can learn a language in my 60s. "Oh, you want to learn some French phrases for a trip to Europe?" "No, I want to read Victor Hugo and Gustave Flaubert, or at least Emmanuelle Arsan" (yes, I have those books on my hard drive).
Last edited by sfuqua on Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
4 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:37 am

While my Spanish has been mostly in maintenence mode the last few years, back when I was concentrating on it, I did several things which seemed to help a lot:
1. Assimil passive wave, active wave, and shadowing. I stopped at lesson 26 in French with Ease.
2. FSI really seemed to help some aspects of my Spanish grammar. I have never done any of FSI French.
3. L-R of Cien Años. I've never don L-R in French.
4. Extensive reading of big Follett books in translation. I have the French versions of the same books I used for Spanish. Who knows how hard the French version would be.

There are plenty of straightforward ways to improve my French.
Last edited by sfuqua on Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
3 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:54 am

Or I could just study Old English. I love the language and the little bit that I have read of the poetry.
Such a differei world...
Last edited by sfuqua on Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:59 am

Or just study Icelandic/Norse.
A glorious language with plenty to read.
0 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:39 pm

OK, enough whimsy on wanderlust for the whale road.
I think I am actually one the right track with the anki deck I am using. A hard thorough run through this deck should get my French up to the point that my Spanish was after Assimil, or perhaps ahead since I am doing a more thorough job of review with this anki deck. I'm going to continue to do an equivalent Spanish anki deck. I will consider this Spanish anki deck to be maintenance for Spanish, although I will probably keep learning a few things.
I have created an anki deck, although I haven't really started it, that includes the contents of Assimil's European and Brazilian Portuguese. Learning Portuguese would complete the set of three big, worldwide, Romance languages. Portuguese is a beautiful language, and in many ways I wish I had started it years ago, instead of French. While Portuguese is not that important a language in Europe, it is a big, widespread language in the world. And it reminds me warm tropical nights, and sweet music. I think I may be more of a Portuguese type of guy than a French type of guy. I don't know why French would intimidate more, but somehow it does. I think I'm going to try to convince myself, that if I want to wanderlust, I should drift toward Portuguese.
I realize that fooling around with Portuguese will probably slow progress in other languages, but it seems a little more sane that Irish, Norse, and Old English.

I think I will load FSI French and Spanish, and DLI Portugues onto my phone also, in case I get a case of wanderflust about the approach I am using.
3 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: Not all those who wander are lost

Postby sfuqua » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:59 am

I Had my first day with my big new Romance deck. It took a little time. I already have built up some review cards for Spanish and French and I did a few extra cards with Portuguese. I've looked at Portuguese several times before, and I know little bit about it, but I have about zero actual skill with it. For the heck of it, I tried to stream HBO's old "Alice" series with Andréia Horta and I couldn't find it anywhere. It is a beautiful little piece of drama about a small town girl who goes to the big city in Brazil. There is a good deal of sex, some drugs, and a lot of booze and drama. Anyway, this is the first thing I watched from Brazil which helped me figure out just how big, rich, and beautiful the country is. I suspect that a visit there would still blow my mind. I may have been the only fan of this show, since it was canceled after one season, and I seem to be the only one looking for it. Anyway, the series does not seem to be available online and I wish it was. Some of my favorite episodes were the ones in the truncated second season, which never have been available on DVD. I have the first season on DVD.
I remember that I cried while I watched an episode where an older couple decides to get married anyway, even though one of them is slipping into dementia. The way the person with dementia talked about himself reminded me of the way my mother talked as the horror of dementia took her away while she was still alive...
I seem to be the only fan of HBO Alice in the family, so I'm not sure if anybody else would like it. :D

The weather is beautiful here in California, and that's a problem. It is the rainy season, and there is no rain. We had a nice start to the rainy season, and then it just died. The hills are turning brown again. Goddess knows what kind of fire season we will have if it doesn't rain. As I understand it, we are in a big drought, but California has droughts. What makes this one so bad is that climate change has raised the temperature enough that we are drier that we get during a "normal" drought. I watched a movie on Netflix yesterday called "Burn" which had a lot of amazing footage of the horrible fires in Australia in 2019. The horrid yellow sun looked so familiar, although I realize that the fires in Australia were much bigger than what we had in California. But maybe next year...

Oh, please just let it rain. Let the streams fill up and the dust be washed out of the air. Let the days be dark, gloomy, and windy and let the rain come down in sheets. Just let it rain. :D

There is still plenty of time for a good rainy season, but the days are going by and there is no sign of rain in the 10 day forecast... :o
5 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...


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