Turkish Cramming Experiment: ILR 2 by 20190401 via flashcards

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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby Xmmm » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:43 pm

smallwhite wrote:>

> I'm up to 3616 cards now, with 80% completely unknown.

Wait, what do you mean 80% completely unknown? You have gathered 3616 words, are learning or have learnt 723 of them, have 2893 words waiting to be learnt but not yet learnt, and you're mining further words and finding the texts difficult? Why don't you get all 3616 words learnt first?

I didn't need 4 "learnt"s there but I'm having fun annoying you.



You're suggesting I should stop mining at 3600 words and just drill-drill-drill until I know them all, then find new words? I can do that, but what difference does it make if the target is 6000 or 7000 words? Why not keep mining as I go? I'm curious.

I really know something like 1700 words, but I only started this deck two weeks ago, so Quizlet only knows that I know 723 and there doesn't seem to be any speed dial ...

smallwhite wrote:> trombosit -- platelet
> ...

Thanks for the list. I start to see why some people find flashcards or language-learning difficult.


I don't know. Speakeasy said TV drama is crap and never uses any hard words. The first three sentences of episode 3 of "Black Heart" are something like "I just got back from the secret clinic in Africa. I have ten doses of platelets. Pure." Something like that. I should skip over platelets? If it turned up in a lousy TV show it's a beginner word, right? :)
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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby Xmmm » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:33 pm

Xmmm wrote:
smallwhite wrote:>

> I'm up to 3616 cards now, with 80% completely unknown.

Wait, what do you mean 80% completely unknown? You have gathered 3616 words, are learning or have learnt 723 of them, have 2893 words waiting to be learnt but not yet learnt, and you're mining further words and finding the texts difficult? Why don't you get all 3616 words learnt first?

I didn't need 4 "learnt"s there but I'm having fun annoying you.



You're suggesting I should stop mining at 3600 words and just drill-drill-drill until I know them all, then find new words? I can do that, but what difference does it make if the target is 6000 or 7000 words? Why not keep mining as I go? I'm curious.

I really know something like 1700 words, but I only started this deck two weeks ago, so Quizlet only knows that I know 723 and there doesn't seem to be any speed dial ...

smallwhite wrote:> trombosit -- platelet
> ...

Thanks for the list. I start to see why some people find flashcards or language-learning difficult.


I don't know. Speakeasy said TV drama is crap and never uses any hard words. The first three sentences of episode 3 of "Black Heart" are something like "I just got back from the secret clinic in Africa. I have ten doses of platelets. Pure." Something like that. I should skip over platelets? If it turned up in a lousy TV show it's a beginner word, right? :)



And to smallwhite and axon:

Okay, so the message I'm hearing is I have to stop being a wimp and just learn the 3628 cards I currently have before I find any more.

This means I will have to leave the beautiful psychologist trapped in the crazy rich old dude's house for several months. This is bad, because if he finds out she's helping the handsome young doctor with his revenge plot, he'll kill her just the same as he kills everyone else who gets in his way. You guys are cruel.

TurkishAssessment20181101.png
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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby smallwhite » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:20 pm

Xmmm wrote:
smallwhite wrote:>

> I'm up to 3616 cards now, with 80% completely unknown.

Wait, what do you mean 80% completely unknown? You have gathered 3616 words, are learning or have learnt 723 of them, have 2893 words waiting to be learnt but not yet learnt, and you're mining further words and finding the texts difficult? Why don't you get all 3616 words learnt first?

I didn't need 4 "learnt"s there but I'm having fun annoying you.



You're suggesting I should stop mining at 3600 words and just drill-drill-drill until I know them all, then find new words? I can do that, but what difference does it make if the target is 6000 or 7000 words? Why not keep mining as I go? I'm curious.

The fact that you had to ask me why made me realise that you're not learning words from frequent to rare / from useful to useless. I was actually suggesting you mine and learn frequent beginner's words first (to cover more ground asap), then mine and learn intermediate words, then mine and learn rare advanced words. Because from your last post it seemed to me that you have learnt (say) 723 beginner's words, have 2893 intermediate words pending, and are now trying to mine further words with a vocab of only 723 and finding it difficult. It'd be easier to mine further words with a vocab of 3616 words instead. But I guess that's not the case; your deck is actually A0 to B2 in no particular order. In that case, it makes less difference whether you learn now or mine now. But I would still recommend learning words soon after you mine them, because you hand-pick your words and there's thought process behind each word so you want to strike while the iron is hot. I always start SRS on the same day of mining, and my cards feel easy. But I do realise that you said you find your flashcards easy, too.

The other thing is, what if you abandon this project? 2893 cards painfully mined but never gotten to be learnt! IIRC, you have abandoned more projects than you have continued.

> You're suggesting I should stop mining at 3600 words and just drill-drill-drill until I know them all, then find new words?

Maybe medium-well but you know that already.
Last edited by smallwhite on Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby rdearman » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:29 pm

Xmmm wrote:I have fat thumbs, so the Anki Droid phone app was a bit of a pain for me.

Turn on gestures. I don't use all of them, but I do have swipe right to suspend card. But if you have a fat finger problem gestures are the way to go.

Gestures

AnkiDroid allows you to customize the interface, so that actions you perform frequently can be accomplished quickly by using tap and swipe gestures.
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Don’t do anything. Useful if you want to disable certain swipes, tap zones and so on.
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When the answer screen is shown, choose the red button, indicating you wish to review the card again soon. This is useful when you forgot a card or wish to review it more frequently. When the question is shown, this action (and all other answer actions below) will simply show the answer.
Answer button 2

When the answer screen is shown, choose the second button from the left, generally indicating you found the card hard to remember.
Answer button 3

When the answer screen is shown, choose the third button from the left.
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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby Xmmm » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:48 pm

smallwhite wrote:
Xmmm wrote:
smallwhite wrote:>

> I'm up to 3616 cards now, with 80% completely unknown.

Wait, what do you mean 80% completely unknown? You have gathered 3616 words, are learning or have learnt 723 of them, have 2893 words waiting to be learnt but not yet learnt, and you're mining further words and finding the texts difficult? Why don't you get all 3616 words learnt first?

I didn't need 4 "learnt"s there but I'm having fun annoying you.



You're suggesting I should stop mining at 3600 words and just drill-drill-drill until I know them all, then find new words? I can do that, but what difference does it make if the target is 6000 or 7000 words? Why not keep mining as I go? I'm curious.

The fact that you had to ask me why made me realise that you're not learning words from frequent to rare / from useful to useless. I was actually suggesting you mine and learn frequent beginner's words first (to cover more ground asap), then mine and learn intermediate words, then mine and learn rare advanced words. Because from your last post it seemed to me that you have learnt (say) 723 beginner's words, have 2893 intermediate words pending, and are now trying to mine further words with a vocab of only 723 and finding it difficult. It'd be easier to mine further words with a vocab of 3616 words instead. But I guess that's not the case; your deck is actually A0 to B2 in no particular order. In that case, it makes less difference whether you learn now or mine now. But I would still recommend learning words soon after you mine them, because you hand-pick your words and there's thought process behind each word so you want to strike while the iron is hot. I always start SRS on the same day of mining, and my cards feel easy. But I do realise that you said you find your flashcards easy, too.

The other thing is, what if you abandon this project? 2893 cards painfully mined but never gotten to be learnt! IIRC, you have abandoned more projects than you have continued.

> You're suggesting I should stop mining at 3600 words and just drill-drill-drill until I know them all, then find new words?

Maybe medium-well but you know that already.


That makes sense. It's marginally more fun to make the cards than do the reviews, I guess. I'm developing the same problem in Irish already, to a much smaller extent.

Okay ... I will dutifully learn the 3600 words, if I can stand it.
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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby Xmmm » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:33 pm

TurkishAssessment20181105.png


omg.


500-800 reviews a day (40-60 minutes) barely moves the needle. At this rate it will be the middle of January before I finish these. I don't quite get why it's moving so slow, because my success rate is 90%. If this were Anki, I'd be twisting all the knobs so that if I got a word right twice in a row, it would be permanently done.

I'll have to cut my total cards down to 5000 (from original hoped for 6 or 7 thousand). And I'll have to choose words very very carefully (no more trombosit). I still have no way to deal with listening comprehension for this experiment, am thinking that I will dump random sentences from The Delights of Learning Turkish that illustrate grammar points, and may get a phrasebook as well, then let TTS do its job. I'm sure that will work, lol ...
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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby smallwhite » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:14 am

> I don't quite get why it's moving so slow, because my success rate is 90%.

From my partial information and quick calculations, you were averaging 6 reviews per card in your first 12 days. Next time you learn new words, you can pick a super easy one you'll never get wrong and mark down the time every time it pops up for review. Or you can google or ask Quizlet their algorithm. (Edit: I had actually started a thread about that). Or you can control your database manually, moving words into and out of the LTL folder. Or not use LTL and just study with separate folders. All sorts of things you can do on Quizlet.

> If this were Anki, I'd be twisting all the knobs so that if I got a word right twice in a row, it would be permanently done.

The spelling test does exactly that.

What is your answering format: typing, MC, right/wrong, etc?

Edit: inserted link with LTL's algorithm.
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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby Xmmm » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:35 am

smallwhite wrote:> I don't quite get why it's moving so slow, because my success rate is 90%.

From my partial information and quick calculations, you were averaging 6 reviews per card in your first 12 days. Next time you learn new words, you can pick a super easy one you'll never get wrong and mark down the time every time it pops up for review. Or you can google or ask Quizlet their algorithm. (Edit: I had actually started a thread about that). Or you can control your database manually, moving words into and out of the LTL folder. Or not use LTL and just study with separate folders. All sorts of things you can do on Quizlet.


What is your answering format: typing, MC, right/wrong, etc?

Edit: inserted link with LTL's algorithm.


Right wrong,

Thanks for the link about the algorithm. On paper it sounds fine. I'm trying to understand why words like "Friday", "blue", "thank you", "January" keep coming up pretty much every day even though I've never gotten them wrong. And why it won't pull cards from the "don't know" pile when I complete all reviews required of me for that day ... or at least not until I do several hundred additional reviews (recycling cards in the "know" pile).

The behavior is strange, hoping it resolves itself sooner or later. Anki was more transparent, but being over flexible makes it fatally flawed for me, because I just have a natural tendency to cheat in devious, self-deluding ways I guess ...
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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby Xmmm » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:57 pm

A follow-up. My Irish "don't know" percentage was 46% this morning. I decided to devote my entire twenty minutes to doing reviews.

Quizlet said I had 22 required reviews. I did those, seeing 10 new words, and my "don't know" percentage dropped to 44%.

I then proceeded to do another 200 reviews -- and i only have a total of 497 cards. I ended the session with 44% "don't know" and overall percentages unchanged compared to where I was after the first set of reviews.

So ... it appears that Quizlet is set to feed you 10 new terms a day, and is hard-coded in some way for that. Extra "cramming" reviews will eventually pull a few extra cards, but not very efficiently.

The obvious solution is to to split my Turkish deck into "Turkish 1", "Turkish 2", "Turkish 3", "Turkish 4", "Turkish 5" ... then I will see 50 new words a day.
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Re: Turkish Cramming Experiment: B2 by 20190401 via flashcards

Postby Axon » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:06 pm

Xmmm wrote:So ... it appears that Quizlet is set to feed you 10 new terms a day, and is hard-coded in some way for that. Extra "cramming" reviews will eventually pull a few extra cards, but not very efficiently.

The obvious solution is to to split my Turkish deck into "Turkish 1", "Turkish 2", "Turkish 3", "Turkish 4", "Turkish 5" ... then I will see 50 new words a day.


Great discovery! Too much backseat knob-twisting to suggest that each deck be unique in some way?
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