Spoon's Space for Spanish, 'speranto and... Italian [2015]

[Spoonary]

Hey all! Despite already having a language log on Tumblr (which I have abandoned since I joined this site) where I talk about some of the more interesting (In my opinion) language learning activities I do, I have decided to also create a space on here where I can share the specifics of everything I do each day. This way, anyone who is interested in following my progress does not have to leave the safety of this forum and wade through the swamp that Tumblr can be to satisfy their curiosity.

For anyone who doesn't know me (which I guess is everyone here as I wasn't ever active on the original HTLAL forum), I am an English lass from "up norf" and I have been seriously interested in language learning for about 4 years. My other interests include video games, comedy, drawing, animation and reading.

By way of introducing my target languages, I am going to rob the bullet points I wrote in the first post of my Tumblr Language Log:
Spanish - I have just finished a four year Spanish degree so let’s just say I'm an experienced Spanish learner and a fairly proficient user of the language. I mainly need to maintain my current skills and expand my vocabulary and linguistic arsenal, as it were. To do this, I will be reading and listening to more difficult texts about lots of different subjects and speaking whenever I can.

Italian - I have been learning Italian for about a year in a mainly audio-focussed way. I can now understand almost everything I listen to and I can more or less have a slow-ish conversation about topics I am familiar with. My main issue is my lack of confidence with Italian grammar, having only learned the basics and gleaned the rest from my audio consumption with the help of Spanish. My active vocabulary is also very limited. I therefore need to get a grammar book, nail down the specifics of Italian grammar and start doing more output exercises, using more varied vocabulary.

Esperanto - Esperanto is a language I am learning for fun, really, (whereas I plan to use the others in my professional career). I have been interested in the language for about a year but I only began to really learn it a few months ago, just before the Duolingo course came out. I will be continuing with that course, while also watching Pasporto al la Tuta Mondo so I can get all the grammar down.

In terms of what you can expect here. Heaps of procrastinating sounds about right No seriously, I hope writing this log will help persuade me to actually do something worthwhile to then write about, and I also hope that anyone who stops by finds something of interest. Tomorrow I will write a quick summary of the various challenges I am taking part in and what my plans are for each of them. For now though, vi auguro una buona serata!

[garyb]

Good luck with your studies!

How are you finding it approaching Italian with a good knowledge of Spanish? I'm the opposite, my Italian level is quite high and I've studied a little Spanish, and like you I reached a good level of listening comprehension relatively quickly but my conversation and grammar are weaker. I can converse slowly but it takes me some effort to remember verb forms and vocabulary. Spanish is on the back-burner for now but sooner or later I'm going to get back into it, watch a bunch of TV and film to get my comprehension a bit higher, and try to "activate" it by working through something like FSI which is geared towards getting a good grasp on the verbs and all.

I'm not sure if there's anything similar for Italian. FSI Spanish is very highly regarded but the Italian one is considered awful aside from the first few units that cover pronunciation well. I mostly just learnt spoken Italian by "brute force", practising lots and making lots of mistakes, but maybe a more systematic approach with grammar study would have been more efficient. "Italian Grammar Drills" is a decent grammar book, focused on exercises as the name suggests, which I've started and I need to get back into sooner or later. It's aimed at beginner/intermediate but I've found it useful for cleaning up my grammar at a more advanced level. I like to speak the exercises aloud rather than writing them.

[Spoonary]

Hey Gary! Thanks and good luck to you too!

Everything you have said there about Spanish accurately describes my relationship with Italian . I have an idea of how everything works, but when I converse, I am simply not confident that the way I think something should be said is correct and not some sort of Spanish-Italian mix. Therefore, it is a slow process and I get discouraged, no matter how much praise I get. I think I'm probably just too used to being good at Spanish and, as I reached a good level of comprehension in Italian fairly quickly, I expected the speaking skills to be equally as easy to develop, which is just not the case. I am confident I will reach a high level eventually, but it will just take a little more time than I first thought.

Ooh thank you for the recommendations. I will take a look at Italian Grammar Drills when my pocket is not so empty I am afraid I have nothing similar to recommend for Spanish as most of what I know about grammar I learned at university. I am currently (and leisurely) reading through A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish by Butt & Benjamin, which was recommended by my university tutor. It is very thorough and is helping me greatly to polish up my rusting knowledge of Spanish grammar, but I'm sure there are others out there which cover all the main points without going into so much (unnecessary) detail. I have never used FSI Spanish...

[Spoonary]

Challenges
As promised, this post will be an overview of all of the challenges I am currently taking part in, as well as my current progress and action plan for each of them.

Output Challenge - I first signed up for the Output challenge in March and lasted about 2 weeks. The problem was that I was doing the challenge in Italian, while my Spanish degree was coming to an end. I felt all the Italian I was doing was harming my Spanish in some way, and at such an important time, I just couldn't carry on with it.

When I joined this forum at the beginning of July, I saw that some people were still doing the Output challenge, and I was still interested in doing so, but I no longer had my Italian progress document. Combine that with my desire to spend as much of my time as possible maintaining and improving my Spanish, having recently finished my degree, and it was clear that I should re-start the challenge, but in Spanish this time.

I did the maths and worked out that, in order to complete the challenge on 31st December 2015, I would have to write 300 words and record 35 minutes of audio every single day. Although I have fallen slightly behind over the past few days, I am still confident it is possible for me to complete this challenge, if I keep up the pace.

Action Plan: For the audio, I record my voice using a simple Sony voice recorder. I basically just talk about what is going on in my life, with the odd tangent about something or other that I have been thinking about. I might upload a few short clips to give you all a look inside my mind For the written segment, I write one page in a small notebook-diary I have for this purpose. An average page comes to about 200 words so I also try to write short stories or texts in a word document, which I sometimes then send to Lang-8, but I have been really bad at doing that just lately, hence why I have fallen behind.

Super Challenge - This is a big one. I am actually doing two Super Challenges; one in Spanish and one in Italian. I don't think I will reach the goal of reading 100 books and watching 100 films in each of the languages by the end of the year, but I just wanted some way to keep track of what I do read and listen to. You can take a look at my progress HERE. Soon I will write a post about what I tend to read/listen to in each of my languages, so watch out for that!

Music Challenge - First of all, I think the Music Challenge is a great idea (Thanks Serpent!) I often spend entire evenings looking for new (to me) music in my target languages, but I have quite specific (yet hard to define) tastes and I don't tend to have much patience for music that I don't *love* so I often have to sift through a lot of "ok" music to find something that's a keeper. All the same, I have been having fun with the challenge so far.

I have chosen Italian for my Music Challenge, because I need to find something to sing to improve the speed and general fluency of my Italian. I won't go into much detail here about my limited tastes in (Italian) music because there will soon be a post about that, but here is my Music Challenge (one album per week) progress so far:

20th-26th July: Banda Bassotti - Siamo Guerriglia
27th July-Present: Banda Bassotti - Amore e Odio (I was going to listen to one of CCCP's albums but I liked this one better so I will be going through all of Banda Bassotti's discography first, I think.)

6 Week Challenge - For August's 6WC, I will be tackling Esperanto. I studied it for a couple of months, on and off, and I even went to an Esperanto meetup and chatted with some much more experienced Esperantistoj but my speaking is slow at best and lacking in vocabulary and grammatical confidence.

Action plan: I will be continuing to work through the Duolingo Esperanto course, watching more of La Pasporto al la tuta mondo, reading Harry Potter kaj la ŝtono de la saĝuloj and perhaps doing a bit of chatting in the Tumblr Esperanto group on Kik or somewhere else.

Well, that's it for the Challenge overview. My first actual log of my current language learning activities will come soon, as I did a few things yesterday and I also have plans for today, but all that remains to be said is... ciao for now!

[garyb]

Yep, I had hoped that speaking Spanish would come a bit more easily but no such luck. But still, it's a big head-start compared to starting from scratch. That's why I put Spanish on pause: learning that while continuing to improve my Italian turned out to be a lot more work than I had anticipated, so I decided it was best to focus on getting Italian to a high level first. A higher Italian level might also help with Spanish when I do come back to it, but again I realise that that will probably mostly just apply to passive skills.

I've heard good things about "Gramática de uso". FSI plus a good grammar book like that should be more than enough for my needs. For Spanish I'm pretty much sorted between these, enough films and TV series to keep me busy for years, and easy access to native speakers. I'm confident I could reach a good level if I focused on it; the only thing holding me back is time.

Just saw your new post about the challenges. I'll be curious to see what you're watching and listening to. As usual I'll try to keep my log updated with what I'm reading and watching, and any interesting musical discoveries.

[Radioclare]

6 Week Challenge - For August's 6WC, I will be tackling Esperanto. I studied it for a couple of months, on and off, and I even went to an Esperanto meetup and chatted with some much more experienced Esperantistoj but my speaking is slow at best and lacking in vocabulary and grammatical confidence.

I suspect it's too short notice, but the Esperanto Association of Britain are running parallel courses for beginners and post-beginners at their headquarters in Staffordshire on the weekend of 15th-16th August.

Hopefully the course will be running a few times a year from now on, so I can always let you know when the next one comes up if it's something you would be interested in

You mentioned finishing your degree so I am guessing you are student age. If so, you might be eligible for a grant from the Norwich Jubilee Esperanto Foundation if you find Esperanto courses or meet-ups which you are interested in attending in future. The charity has far more money than applicants, so if you meet the age criteria and are able to write a short letter in Esperanto explaining where you want to go, what it would cost etc, then it's almost certain that you would be able to get the full costs of attending reimbursed. My boyfriend runs the charity and I am loosely the treasurer, so feel free to get in touch if you ever want any more info

[Spoonary]

Just saw your new post about the challenges. I'll be curious to see what you're watching and listening to. As usual I'll try to keep my log updated with what I'm reading and watching, and any interesting musical discoveries.

I might write that post tonight or maybe over the weekend. I shall be following your blog closely, then, to add variety to my daily media consumption! I have a feeling we're going to make a great team, you and I. With us working together to pool resources and experiences, Spanish and Italian are going down!

I suspect it's too short notice, but the Esperanto Association of Britain are running parallel courses for beginners and post-beginners at their headquarters in Staffordshire on the weekend of 15th-16th August.

Hopefully the course will be running a few times a year from now on, so I can always let you know when the next one comes up if it's something you would be interested in

On the contrary, it is not short notice at all, because I actually already knew about the course One of the members of the group I met up with in York in June (Jack Warren, I don't know if you know him) told me about several courses and the available grants earlier this month. I have been stewing over whether or not I should go ever since, but I think I am going to have to decline. Don't get me wrong, I would love to go, as I am sure it would be an invaluable experience, but right now I just need to focus on finding a job and getting my life organised. Although it is a weekend and there is funding available, it has just fallen at an awkward time for me.

I really appreciate you mentioning it to me though, and I would love to hear about anything else that is going on in the future. I really want to become an active part of the community of British Esperanto speakers but my life is a tad too messy right now for me to do anything consistently. Also, about the grants: I am currently 24 years old (25 in April) so I doubt I will be able to take advantage of that opportunity but I think it is an excellent initiative and I would like to thank your boyfriend (and yourself) for doing such a wonderful thing for aspiring young Esperantists.

[Radioclare]

On the contrary, it is not short notice at all, because I actually already knew about the course One of the members of the group I met up with in York in June (Jack Warren, I don't know if you know him) told me about several courses and the available grants earlier this month. I have been stewing over whether or not I should go ever since, but I think I am going to have to decline. Don't get me wrong, I would love to go, as I am sure it would be an invaluable experience, but right now I just need to focus on finding a job and getting my life organised. Although it is a weekend and there is funding available, it has just fallen at an awkward time for me.

Yes, I know Jack very well He's lovely, and wonderful at teaching beginners. I completely understand though that life comes before Esperanto and that life is generally weird when you have just left uni!

Also, about the grants: I am currently 24 years old (25 in April) so I doubt I will be able to take advantage of that opportunity but I think it is an excellent initiative and I would like to thank your boyfriend (and yourself) for doing such a wonderful thing for aspiring young Esperantists.

Thank you It's quite frustrating because there is a lot of money there to be used, but it's bound by a very restrictive trust deed. We generally try to give people some leeway if they are borderline 25 so they don't miss out on a technicality. The charity was set up in the 60s when it was assumed that people would be in full-time work and earning by the time they're 25, whereas nowadays that often isn't the case. We are considering getting legal advice to see whether the restrictions can be relaxed to allow more charitable expenditure, but it will be a slow process... In the meantime please do spread the word if you know anyone else who might be interested and eligible Often people think it sounds too good to be true but it really is possible to have numerous free holidays for those lucky few who meet the criteria

[Spoonary]

We are considering getting legal advice to see whether the restrictions can be relaxed to allow more charitable expenditure, but it will be a slow process... In the meantime please do spread the word if you know anyone else who might be interested and eligible Often people think it sounds too good to be true but it really is possible to have numerous free holidays for those lucky few who meet the criteria

Well then, who knows? I might be able to get in on that charitable expenditure yet! At the moment, I can't think of anyone I would recommend it to but if I happen to meet someone, I will be sure to tell them all about those free holidays they are missing out on

All of a sudden I am even more excited about getting back into Esperanto tomorrow! You can't beat the promise of a welcoming community to make you want to do all you can to become a more comfortably integrated part of it. Esperantujo, jen mi!

[Spoonary]

Writing in Spanish:
Below is a piece of my writing in Spanish. I wrote it (in about an hour) in response to a mock exam question, when I was preparing for my final exams this spring. This is my original text (well, it's the typed up and slightly edited version of the original), but I have since had it corrected by two people on Lang-8. There was very little wrong with it, according to the two kind folks who took the time to correct it, but still, I prefer to show what I was able to do alone.

Las reglas gramaticales ¿obstaculizan la evolución de la lengua?
Para empezar, cabe resaltar que la categoría de reglas gramaticales es muy ancha. Dentro de este grupo tenemos las reglas fundamentales que gobiernan la colocación de los elementos de una frase, para aclarar quien está haciendo lo que a quien; además de otras que se encargan de regularizar los elementos más sutiles de la lengua.

Estas últimas son “reglas” que nosotros, como locutores y usuarios de una lengua (la que sea) manipulamos e incluso las rompemos para personalizar nuestro propio uso de la lengua, cosa que sirve para distinguirnos los unos de los otros.

Para cada idioma en existencia hoy en día, hay una versión estándar, con sus reglas gramaticales que facilitan la comprensión entre interlocutores. Sin embargo, en la mayoría de estos idiomas, existen también varios dialectos, los cuales diferencian del idioma estándar mediante su uso de la gramática misma, además del vocabulario. Aun así, por lo general, hablantes de distintos dialectos de un idioma pueden llegar a entenderse sin demasiada dificultad.

Con respecto a la evolución de los idiomas, me atrevería a decir que la evolución que vemos hoy en día se manifiesta mayormente en el vocabulario, y no tanto en la gramática. En lugares como el internet y en las redes sociales – ámbitos de comunicación en masa y frecuentemente con prisa – la gente busca siempre modas novedosas de expresarse y de ahorrar tiempo. Es de este tipo de prácticas que han salido palabras como ‘selfies’ y ‘tweets’ que han llegado no sólo a integrarse en el vocabulario de la lengua inglesa, sino también, con pequeñas alteraciones de la ortografía, a la española y muchas otras.

Para retomar el tema principal y concluir, quisiera subrayar la importancia del crecimiento lingüístico y su evolución constante. Si no fuera por la intervención del pueblo en el crecimiento de las lenguas humanas, los españoles hablarían todavía como Cervantes, y los ingleses como Shakespeare. La evolución lingüística es sana, y mientras mantengamos esas reglas fundamentales para que haya una mínima de comprensión mutua entre locutores, ¡que vengan las novedades!

After reading it several times, I have realised that I didn't quite answer the question as neatly as I may have done in English, but I am still fairly happy with this mini-essay.

P.S. I have two more of these that I plan to type up and have checked over the next few days.