Adventures in bad memory, Russian

[drmweaver2]

This is really interesting and something I'd love to be able to do!

I'll take that as an indirect compliment and tell you that it really isn't all that hard to do IF you think outside the box a bit.

If you really are interested, drop me a PM and maybe I can give you a hand trying it on your own. The actual VBA code wasn't difficult (but my code does require having MS Office installed, not a competing product - eg., Google Docs or Libre Office).

[smallwhite]

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 013#p93707

then

https://www.online-utility.org/text/analyzer.jsp

Eg. raw data:

aa
bb
bb
cc
cc
cc

or

aa bb bb cc
cc cc

produces:

Number of words : 6
Order ... word ... Occurrences ... Percentage
1. ...... cc ...... 3 ... 50.0000
2. ...... bb ...... 2 ... 33.3333
3. ...... aa ...... 1 ... 16.6667

(3 rows means 3 unique words).

[drmweaver2]

https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2013#p93707
then
https://www.online-utility.org/text/analyzer.jsp

The first link is useless to me when I can Import a txt file directly into Excel using line feeds as automatic sentence ending delimiters. There's no reason to parse paragraphs or sentences with respect to paragraphs when your goal is to determine word frequencies - at least as far as I can see. But it's something I didn't know before. Thanks for that.

Importing a text file's lines one at a time effectively puts each line on a different Excel row. Telling Excel to treat spaces as delimiters within that line (whatever is between hard carriage returns) as it's read in from the text file puts each word into a different cell on the row relating to that sentence.

A universal Find/Replace gets rid of all somehow overlooked/improperly process spaces and periods afterwards - but you might not want to do that - ex., "Mr." becomes "Mr" which is technically incorrect punctuation-wise. And, if you Find/Replace dashes or hyphens, you change combinations like что-то to чточто, again, probably not something that is desirable.

Also, unfortunately, the 2nd link process, at online-utility.org, literally chokes on (fails) when I copy/paste text from Book 1/Fellowship of the Ring into the text box. I had tried to use that site/link before with no luck which is why I did it myself in Excel this time.

Even after you get "results" in a list, you still have to decide what constitutes a single word.
--Are all conjugations of a verb a single word? Only in a single tense? Or is each variation of a conjugation a different word?
--And case endings - how many cases are there and how will you treat them?
-----Does each variation according to each case ending equate to a different word or do you lump 'em all together?

My method's not complex. Literally, ANYONE can do it. He/she just has to understand what serves as usable input, what manipulations are possible and/or required given that input and why you do things in a specific sequence to get a specific, desired output.

I don't have all the answers. I made some choices that should help me with respect to my limited purpose of using LotR/Fellowship of the Rings and creating a special-purpose Anki deck to help me learn Russian.

To create a different deck for a different purpose, someone might do it differently. At the end of it all, whatever you do, you end up with a list of words and numbers that only the "creator" knows how he/she compiled and processed that list.

But, it was a nice diversion for an hour.

[smallwhite]

Yes, I know you successfully processed your text. You had already given clear instructions yet MamaPata still said they'd love to be able to do the same, so I thought I'd give a probably easier alternative for them.

[MamaPata]

Both are appreciated! And it was intended as a compliment!

[drmweaver2]

Over in the Russian Study Group, @MamaPata asked:

How is everyone's Russian study going? I have *gasps* actually done some stuff!

Hmmm, "how's it going"? Slowly but interestingly. And, I too have "done some stuff" lately.

I got sidetracked by LIFE off and on for between 7 and 10 days - meaning I only did minimal Anki, Glossika and MT. Despite giving it a quick shot, I've concluded that the Michel Thomas route is NOT for me at all.

Today, I started back "at it" more seriously with a halfway decent 4 hours of effort before my brain exploded. So, I played a bit - making a Word Frequency Count List for the Hobbit with the intention to compare and combine it with the list I have for LotR. Tomorrow, I'll create a specific Anki deck for that with the goal of 25 new words a day in addition to the other decks I have (right now I've got 4 different area-specific decks totaling about 60 new words a day, ~300 reviews a day - yes, this does take a while to get through. My method is 4 different "Anki sessions" spread throughout the day.).

I've stopped doing any Pimsleur (for now at least). I'm just not getting any positive vibes from the time spent with it. And I am pretty sure that I'm covering all of the vocab via other means.

I need to freakin' flip a coin/decide and start either Assimil or DLI/FSI tomorrow. I've dithered back and forth about it way too long.

And I'm getting frustrated that I am not/wasn't making any noticeable progress using LWT - that is, there are still way too many unknown or Cat3-5 "known" words in practically anything I've stuck into it. The bruise on my forehead is very tender and growing - kinda why I let Life interfere with actually doing Russian for the last week/10 days.

Otoh, I found a couple really nice Russian singers I've enjoyed listening to. +1 Europop!

[drmweaver2]

Every now and then, I start writing an entry or post and midway through it wonder how I manage to get such "diarrhea of the keyboard". This is the third version of today's episode...

I actually started this as an "update to a PM" to someone. Then, for some reason, I figured that others might also be interested - as if!!! (yeah, my ego gets away from me sometimes)!

I'm constantly facing the conflict of "normal language-learning advise/processes" relating more to normal conversation than to achieving my goal of reading LotR in Russian. Okay, the most frequently used words list theory should help here, right? Um, yes and no. It seems conversational or survival Russian word frequency lists are no more than 50% useful - at least out to the 1500th word from what my analyses of different translations of both LotR and The Hobbit show (and, of course, I could definitely be wrong/have processed the texts incorrectly there).

Add to this, I'm still trying to remember/improve my knowledge of the basics of Russian grammar, declensions and tenses... sigh. All with a 60plus year old mind/memory (or lack thereof!)!

And of course, I'm always looking for "the missing key", the magic tool, the shortcut.... Yeah, we all know about that, right?!?!

But I digress...and obfusticate...and distract myself (and you?)...

Short version recap
-Started in August after a 15 year break from Russian...
-Figured I'd just "re-learn" Russian... for fun.
-Around Sep 1, got the bright idea to read LotR in Russian...by Xmas!
-Decided to invest - shoot for - a minimum of 6 hours a day concentrated study
---Examining my log, max hours studying a day - 10-12hrs/day on 22 different days
------------------------- avg hrs/day concentrated study - 6-8 between Sep 1 and Oct 10
------------------------- min hrs/day - 3 on 3 different days when I was sick
------------------------- days missed/no studying - 0 between Aug 21 and today
-Made inspiring (to me) progress initially in re-claiming some of the easy stuff from the dank,
.................dark recesses of my gray matter.
-Reached 3 different plateaus (vocab and grammar) in Sep and early Oct...
..........worked through them each differently (just plugged away, switched focus for 3 days
................ and then returned, changed method/book)
-Gained and lost progress in dealing with the plateaus...
-Ran into the issue of real world vocab versus book vocab...
..........still don't have an answer here
-Still looking for that magic key!

At this point, I might have a functional passive vocab of 1200 words now. That is, I can read about this many words without having to look them up or I can figure them out from contextual familiarity.
--I probably have an "automatic production" vocab of about 5-600 words. That is, I can write or say something from a "bank" of this many words without having to use a vocabulary list to prompt myself. These are general use words commonly seen/heard across "conversational islands".

"Is it reasonable to be disappointed" is the question I find myself dealing with this last week.

And thus concludes the "verbal diarrhea" for this post.

[drmweaver2]

Been in a "weird place" mentally since Friday. My motivation vis-a-vis Russian has flown the coop. I did the work each day but without much enthusiasm this past weekend. Hasn't happened like that before.

Literally out of nowhere, the idea of learning Thai jumped into its place. WTH? I have no prior interest in Thai, in Thailand itself (geographically or culturally), and, with the exception of the story of Anna Leonwens (The English Governess at the Siamese Court (1870)), no knowledge whatsoever about "the land of smiles". (Okay, slight exaggeration there - I once knew a bit about US military activities in Thailand during the Vietnam War era, but only vaguely, nothing first-hand.)

I've also had no previous interest/background in tonal languages.

So, where the heck did this idea come from?

Jumped on YouTube and watched a few vids over 3 days on "beginner Thai" - I guess I am tone deaf as I was completely unable to distinguish any "tones". But for some reason, that didn't stop me from going back and listening to more - but, after 4 days, I am spectacularly unsuccessful in detecting any differences in tonalities in the audio.

I have no idea where this will lead - is it a momentary distraction? will it turn into a short-term flirtation? what would I do with Thai if I DID learn it? I don't know any Thai's, never go to Thai restaurants, have no taste for Thai food (no pun intended - my tastebuds HATE the spiciness), have no desire to visit the country... And, WHY did thoughts of this particular "other language" pop into my head out of nowhere? Why not an indigenous Native language? That would be equally "as useless" to me...

I certainly don't see it having any possible positive effect on my Russian.

[StringerBell]

This sounds like the wanderlust that many people here seem to get. I think it's a symptom of feeling frustrated with your current language and not having fun with it. That's my personal take on it, anyway.

I recently read an Italian article that was discussing this kind of phenomena. Basically, the fact that when people choose really ambitious goals that require A LOT of time, patience, and perseverance, they tend to get frustrated and give up when they don't reach success quickly. When it seems like they aren't progressing, instead of choosing a different path to reach the same goal, they give up on the goal entirely and pick a new goal, but use the same path that failed them before. This creates a vicious cycle.

So, in short, I think that rather than focusing on a new goal (Thai) you should stick with your same goal but choose a different path to reach it.

So, my suggestions are:

1) Revisit your reason for wanting to learn Russian; how much do you really want it? Why?
2) Find some ways to inject more fun into your routine. What can you change up to make it feel less like a punishment to endure and more like an activity you genuinely look forward to every day? Is there some simpler (but still fun) material you can use that's closer to your current level than LOR?
3) Re-evaluate your goals. I know you really want to read LOR, which is a really ambitious goal, but is there more? Do you actually want to communicate in Russian with other people? Do you want to read other books, listen to podcasts, watch movies, etc... or do you have no desire to do any of these things? Imagine that you've read LOR. Now what? What role do you envision Russian playing in your life post-LOR?
4) You have a huge goal (reading LOR), but do you have short term concrete goals? It feels really good to reach goals, so maybe you can set some weekly or monthly goals that feel doable. Focusing on short term goals is a good way to avoid solely focusing on a huge long-term goal that can sometimes feel unreachable.

[Xmmm]

I agree with what StringerBell said and will add a couple extra things:

1. I used LingQ (similar to LWT) extensively at the beginning. I eventually stopped because I realized it could be a serious trap for a certain kind of learner (my kind). It can give you a false sense of success: "ooh I read LoR in Russian and now I know 67,000 words" -- but actually you don't. You were patient enough to click 67,000 times and throw sentences together in your head and try to make some sense out of them, but you forgot most of the words as fast as you saw them. Etc. I find kindle with Russian support much better because looking up words is just enough of a pain in the neck that I don't want to do it more than 3-5 times per page, which forces me to stay roughly at my real reading level.

2. Where's the TV in your schedule? You're doing hours a day. There is a reasonable amount of good Russian TV out there. TV is a godsend for language learners who are not top tier quality learners -- it covers a multitude of sins. I learned Italian almost entirely by watching TV (70 or 80% at least) and can chat fairly well and fairly naturally in Italian now. With Russian, I'm perpetually trying to ramp up my TV viewing to get the same effect -- but everything just takes longer in Russian. Still, it has been helping a lot. On Youtube you could check out Ленинград 46, which is really several cuts above most Russian historical gangster dramas and also has the benefit of being pretty long -- 32 episodes. It's available on Youtube. [Edit: I know you said you watch LotR in Russian, but it's not going to teach you a realistic and natural form of speech nor fill your head with everyday expressions]