daveprine's language commitments for 2018/2019

[daveprine]

Nine months later…

So progress hasn’t occurred as quickly as I had hoped. Part of that is due to the last and most strenuous semester of my program, followed by studying for comp exams, several trips and other distractions. Did I mention the trips? More than expected in a short period of time. (BTW, check or rdearman’s summary of the Polyglot Gathering.) However, there has been progress. I haven’t been keeping track of the majority of it, although I have logged the items I’m using for the challenge. (Although I need to post some of the times and pages to the Twitterbot still.)

There have been a few updates based on need/desire/etc. For example, Slovak has now taken a back seat to Polish, the new location for the 2020 Polyglot Gathering.

Unchanged

German (Full Challenge) (currently A2-B1)
Spanish (Full Challenge) (currently A1-A2)

Desire to maintain and improve (the “FIGS” group):
German: 10,000 words
Spanish: 10,000 words
French: 2,000 words
Italian: 2,000 words
Esperanto: 2,000 words
Indonesian: 2,000 words
Hungarian: 1,000 words
Manx: 1,000 words
Lakota: 1,000 words
K’iche’: 1,000 words
Tunica: 1,000 words


Changed

Slovak: 1,000 words (since I don’t plan to return for the Gathering, the need isn’t so urgent. However, I hope to maintain what I know, although knowing too much is making it hard to keep it separate from Polish)
Tswana: 500 words (I’ve fallen behind the group who was studying this, but I wish to maintain a basic knowledge of the language, especially as a gateway to other related languages)


Added

Polish: 1,000 words (with plans to continue with more into the new year in order to reach a B1 level by May)
Choctaw: 500 words (in honor of the International Year of Indigenous Languages)
Navajo: 500 words (in honor of the International Year of Indigenous Languages)
Cherokee: 500 words (in honor of the International Year of Indigenous Languages)


Now some people have mentioned to me that a daily number of words isn’t the best way to learn a language. I agree. With my word counts, I’m not implying that:

# words a day X # of days = FLUENCY!

The word count is merely an objective metric to measure how much I’m taking in. I don’t simply learn random vocabulary words (boat, laser, potato, wombat!) in order to spit them out randomly and in isolation. The “words” I learn are: common words, short phrases, one- or two-word questions or answers, particles, etc., things I can learn quickly and easily, things I can insert into a conversation with an imaginary native speaker (who, for all intents and purposes, lives under my bed), and things I can say immediately to get my mouth moving. Sometimes I break down a sentence into its component words (or at least the words I can isolate without needing to know conjugations, cases, etc.), which might result in an overlap of vocabulary items. So when I reach 1000 flash cards, I really only might have 900 worth of unique items (the complete sentence as a whole and its parts).

I also study whatever methods I have access to, ideally Pimsleur, Colloquial, and Teach Yourself (with audio CDs). But due to an obsession to language materials, I have about 500 items on my bookshelf in perhaps 50 languages. So, for example, I’ve just started (re)studying Polish. I have TY, an old Colloquial, a Dover Say It In Polish, a Lonely Planet phrasebook, Hippocrene’s Mastering Polish with audio CDs, a Berlitz CD course on Eastern Euro languages, a newly-acquired Kauderwelsch Polish (taught in German), a Routledge Essential Grammar book, and a few other books packed away somewhere. So while I might not use all of these and definitely not all of them at the same time, I’ll be using at least a few at a time to build vocabulary, conversational skills, a foundation of grammatical proficiency (I actually like grammar). And with the audio, I plan to focus more on listening than I used to. Gotta get that weak ear strengthened up!

As I go, I learn more vocabulary (in context more so than when I started) and more complex sentence and grammatical structures. I also have (again, due to my obsessive nature) an estimated 30+ DVDs of American movies with Polish audio and/or subtitles. These will give me more complete sentences to read/listen to for more practice. And also packed away is a stack of books (Star Wars, 2001, and other English books) translated into Polish, once my skills reach this level.

In any case, the “words per day” is simply my way of measuring how much vocab I acquire, with the implication that I’m learning the “lessons” that come with these words. If I learn “to have,” I become exposed to the accusative (the direct object, or simply the thing being had). [Hungarian and K’iche’ teach a different lesson since they use a different concept of possession.] When I learn a verb, I often learn it as a conjugated form which often leads to discovering the patterns that I can apply to other verbs I’ve never seen conjugated. When I learn sentences, I learn word order and which cases fall in which position. And when cases aren’t clear, I can still track down the “pure” (dictionary) form of the word. Sometimes it takes a little detective work, but that’s part of the fun!

Not all languages on my list get the same treatment, depending on my need of the language, resources available, etc. Sometimes advanced learning is limited due to time, need, or resources available, and I end up with little more than a list of vocab and basic sentences. It’s a start. I don’t have to be B2 (or even A2) in everything.

Some people prefer the “X hours of some activity.” That’s fine, but I don’t measure that because it doesn’t carry the same meaning for me. It doesn’t measure the value of the effort or the reward. It’s like saying “It took me an hour to get to the store.” It doesn’t indicate how far you went. So if you live across the street from the store, it’s not as impressive as if you lived 10 miles away. (When people tell me, “It’s only 30 minutes by car,” I’m always tempted to say “Then I’ll drive slowly so I don’t have to go far.”) In the same vein, me spending time on something doesn’t mean I’m being proportionately productive. I’m not knocking those who measure by time. But that’s not really my way, and I find the word count is a more telling metric.


You could make the same argument regarding the number of words one learns, or the number of books one reads, or the number of hours spent watching video, etc. I do like participating in the full challenge (100 books & 100 movies) simply because it gets me doing something, regardless of whatever the value divided by the time spent comes out to. But whatever works for you is the way to go as long as you’re learning. Right?

[daveprine]

Update: Now French is taking a priority for a September 3 "deadline"--birthday trip to Paris. (Woo hoo!) While my French has always been passable, the hope/expectation is to get by entirely in French while there for 4 days with my partner (who has studied French before and is much better than I, although I've been able to correct a few mistakes or, rather, perspectives. But that's few and far between.)

So my timely goal is to reach the original goal of 2000 words by then (if not more, although I think that would be more than enough for the trip). I can't even say how much I remember. 150 words or so very well, another 150 moderately, and then ~100 that I can piece together. I suspect I know more and it'll all come rushing back as I start my travel-plan-cramming. As in the past, this yields great short-term results.

The bigger goal is to retain whatever I cram for the long term. Although I can't start that until I return and work on other languages. So we shall see how that goes later. But I also don't want to drop everything I've been working on since I got home from the Gathering. So I also need time to maintain the other languages even if I'm not introducing new vocab into my daily routine. (Of course, there's life: the job search--which might yield fruit sooner than later, fingers crossed!--daily chores and responsibilities, a few small trips, etc.)

And the added short-term challenge is to get my ear up and running. That is my biggest weakness (other than the fact that I'm just much too giving as a lover for my own good). I'm just starting to assemble all of my French audio. Tons of audio online, at the library, etc. But best to start with what I've amassed on my own. So pardon me, but I'm off to the basement to dig through the stuff that I didn't put on my bookshelves when I got here.

OK, about 60 days to go, which means ~34 words a day, give or take. Refreshing vocab I once knew will come fast and easy but then the new stuff will be a bit of a wall. Luckily I'll have an in-house practice partner who will force me to speak all the time.

À plus tard, alligator!

[Brun Ugle]

It always amazes me how you consider your language skills “passable” when you know 150 words/phrases, while I find mine barely passable with 10 000+ words/phrases. It’s that mysterious Dave quality that I’ll probably never have no matter how much I practice “daving”.

[rdearman]

[daveprine]

It always amazes me how you consider your language skills “passable” when you know 150 words/phrases, while I find mine barely passable with 10 000+ words/phrases. It’s that mysterious Dave quality that I’ll probably never have no matter how much I practice “daving”.

In cases like this, "passable" means able to get by as a tourist on a short trip. I wouldn't necessarily be able to sit down and have a lengthy conversation with someone. Although 5 years ago, I did have a nice chat with a woman at a gelato stand in Paris late one night. It was a fun convo, and perhaps the longest I've ever had in just French (and a smidge of Polish, which was her native language).. But after 15 minutes, the conversation started to deteriorate. So I heartily agree that such a small vocab only gets you so far. But if you learn the words you think you're most likely to use and picture what you'll say when you get into the situations you expect you will, you can get pretty far. At least with basic daving.

But if you want to give a 30-minute talk in French or have numerous language exchanges, get advice from Rick. That's beyond my skill set.

[Brun Ugle]

It always amazes me how you consider your language skills “passable” when you know 150 words/phrases, while I find mine barely passable with 10 000+ words/phrases. It’s that mysterious Dave quality that I’ll probably never have no matter how much I practice “daving”.

In cases like this, "passable" means able to get by as a tourist on a short trip. I wouldn't necessarily be able to sit down and have a lengthy conversation with someone. Although 5 years ago, I did have a nice chat with a woman at a gelato stand in Paris late one night. It was a fun convo, and perhaps the longest I've ever had in just French (and a smidge of Polish, which was her native language).. But after 15 minutes, the conversation started to deteriorate. So I heartily agree that such a small vocab only gets you so far. But if you learn the words you think you're most likely to use and picture what you'll say when you get into the situations you expect you will, you can get pretty far. At least with basic daving.

But if you want to give a 30-minute talk in French or have numerous language exchanges, get advice from Rick. That's beyond my skill set.

For me, passable means that I’m able to express myself so elegantly that I can win every argument. So, none of my languages are passable yet.

[rdearman]

For me, passable means that I’m able to express myself so elegantly that I can win every argument. So, none of my languages are passable yet.

Damn ! Just Damn. No wonder you always say your rubbish when your actually brilliant.

I can't even win an argument in English.

[daveprine]

I can't even win an argument in English.

Yes you can!

Ha! I just won that argument!

[Brun Ugle]

For me, passable means that I’m able to express myself so elegantly that I can win every argument. So, none of my languages are passable yet.

Damn ! Just Damn. No wonder you always say your rubbish when your actually brilliant.

I can't even win an argument in English.

Same. I’m not even passable in English.

[daveprine]

Damn ! Just Damn. No wonder you always say your rubbish when your actually brilliant.

I can't even win an argument in English.

Same. I’m not even passable in English.

I know some of this is said humorously and in a self-effacing way (and I know I'm guilty of doing the same thing), but why do we spend time focusing on how deficient we are as opposed to how far we've come and what we actually can do? As rdearman says, one should focus on their strengths and not their weaknesses. You lot have a number of skills and abilities that are way beyond me. Why spend time beating ourselves up over how much distance there is between our skills and where we want to be, and instead celebrate what we do know. After all, we never actually reach our goal until we've already gone way past it. So we're aways wanting to be better, but that shouldn't detract from what we can do right now.

Just a thought.