2021: A Spanish Odyssey

[Speakeasy]

With a view to widening the discussion of SkyNet's musings on the number of lessons included in individual Assimil courses, I have opened a separate discussion thread under the "Language Programs and Resources" sub-forum.

[Skynet]

Exams are finished, so I can finally update my log (not that I could not have done so sooner at any of the 4,874 times that I scoured the forum's non-French and non-German logs since my last update).

GERMAN:
I am 32 days into Assimil GWOT + GWE + NGWE and I am thoroughly impressed by how much my German has improved. GWOT is just impressively thorough, and leaves no stone unturned! I have noticed that GWE suffers from glaringly obvious translation issues (how did Assimil not pick this up?) which make me not-so-secretly regret not buying the French-base version of the book instead. At the end of day 42, I will start with native media to attune my ear to native-speed conversations (with a transcript, of course!)

FRENCH:
I have been progressing rapidly through CLE Vocabulaire PdF ( 250 L, Ava.), CLE Grammaire PdF (400 L, Ava.), CLE Orthographe PdF (405 L, Ava.) and CLE Comprehension Orale (50 L, Int) and have been finding Comprehension Orale the most beneficial because the topics I am expected to discuss are completely random. I need to go through these quickly so that I can finish the last three English-based courses that I am yet to complete: Assimil Business French, Linguaphone Advanced French and Linguaphone Business French. After that, I will be exclusively dealing with native content plus advanced courses from CLE, Hachette and Didier.

AMBIDEXTERITY + LANGUAGE LEARNING:
To make my language learning more exciting, I have decided to assign French to my left hand and German to my right hand to see if writing my weaker language with my slightly-dominant hand will help improve my German.

ACCENT FORMATION:
I have finally realised that sounding native is not as important as I once made it out to be. I went to France on many occasions as a teenager and remember how dismissive the French were of me whenever I attempted to speak in French. They would automatically 'switch' to English each time I desecrated their language (Oh! The temerity of that 15 year-old IGCSE student!) I developed a 'complex' with regards to speaking to French citizens, and that has only recently dissolved after the aforementioned citizens paid me compliments in Turkey. I bring this up because I have been told that my French is sounding more and more German by the day. At one point in my life, that would have bothered me, but now I am completely comfortable with having a non-native accent for any of my languages. I am not being cavalier about it, because I ultimately want to communicate and be understood, but henceforth I will be doing so without the burden of sounding native. Hindsight being 20/20, none of those who 'switched' to English on me sounded remotely native!

My experience with German has been diametrically opposite: I have met Germans, Austrians and Swiss nationals who have been more than helpful and encouraging of my attempt to learn the language. Ironically, they explicitly ask me if their English accents are good and don't sound too much like Arnie, to which I always reply with a resounding "You sound awesome!" Of course they are not native, but I understand them without straining my attention.

[SGP]

My experience with German has been diametrically opposite: I have met Germans, Austrians and Swiss nationals who have been more than helpful and encouraging of my attempt to learn the language.

Some of them could be very helpful sometimes. It's just that this helpfulness also could mean that they switch to English without even considering to switch back, because they wouldn't want the slightest struggles for those who don't converse in German in the (very same) way they do.

Ironically, they explicitly ask me if their English accents are good and don't sound too much like Arnie, to which I always reply with a resounding "You sound awesome!" Of course they are not native, but I understand them without straining my attention.

"Die stoarische Eiche" (the Styrian oak) is a special case, so to say. Some might call him infamous for his very strong accent. And others (press people) might ask him for interviews in German, but he would stick to English.

[DaveAgain]

I bring this up because I have been told that my French is sounding more and more German by the day. At one point in my life, that would have bothered me, but now I am completely comfortable with having a non-native accent for any of my languages.

Think of it rather as a Frankish accent: you're becoming a french aristo!

[zjones]

FRENCH:
I have been progressing rapidly through CLE Vocabulaire PdF ( 250 L, Ava.), CLE Grammaire PdF (400 L, Ava.), CLE Orthographe PdF (405 L, Ava.) and CLE Comprehension Orale (50 L, Int) and have been finding Comprehension Orale the most beneficial because the topics I am expected to discuss are completely random. I need to go through these quickly so that I can finish the last three English-based courses that I am yet to complete: Assimil Business French, Linguaphone Advanced French and Linguaphone Business French. After that, I will be exclusively dealing with native content plus advanced courses from CLE, Hachette and Didier.

What do you think of the CLE Grammaire Avancé ? I got the Grammaire Perfectionnement but I don't really use it for daily study because the lessons are quite random. I'd like to get the Avancé but only if the lessons build on each other.

What's the Comprehension Orale like ? Does it focus on speaking, listening comprehension or both?

How do you like the CLE Vocabulaire?

Sorry for so many questions. I don't have the means to buy lots of different books so I'm very interested in the opinions of others. Plus, your dogged determination is very inspiring to me!

[Skynet]

"Die stoarische Eiche" (the Styrian oak) is a special case, so to say. Some might call him infamous for his very strong accent. And others (press people) might ask him for interviews in German, but he would stick to English.

I will have to listen to him speak. This week I listened to Nouriel Roubini (Italian), Mario Draghi (Italian), Jean-Claude Trichet (French) and Jens Weidmann (German) just to embolden myself to dump my French accent obsession. I have never, ever heard Merkel speak in English though. I wonder what she sounds like.

[SGP]

I will have to listen to him speak. This week I listened to Nouriel Roubini (Italian), Mario Draghi (Italian), Jean-Claude Trichet (French) and Jens Weidmann (German) just to embolden myself to dump my French accent obsession. I have never, ever heard Merkel speak in English though. I wonder what she sounds like.

Whatever my POV on her or politics in general would be, but her speeches are done in a rather advanced version of English. Way beyond the usual "Schulenglisch". The accent isn't subtle, but neither is mine. In addition, she does speak Russian (just as Putin speaks German), because of her past in the (previous) DDR.

[Skynet]

I will have to listen to him speak. This week I listened to Nouriel Roubini (Italian), Mario Draghi (Italian), Jean-Claude Trichet (French) and Jens Weidmann (German) just to embolden myself to dump my French accent obsession. I have never, ever heard Merkel speak in English though. I wonder what she sounds like.

Whatever my POV on her or politics in general would be, but her speeches are done in a rather advanced version of English. Way beyond the usual "Schulenglisch". The accent isn't subtle, but neither is mine. In addition, she does speak Russian (just as Putin speaks German), because of her past in the (previous) DDR.

It's interesting that you bring German and Russian up because I only discovered that she spoke Russian and he German today! Polyglot leaders, huh? What's Schulenglisch? I discovered this word today too: Schadenfreude.

[SGP]

It's interesting that you bring German and Russian up because I only discovered that she spoke Russian and he German today!

Really, the very same day even? Sometimes many unexpected events could happen at the same time. And as for him, he previously was part of the KGB (or was it another secret service?), so that's why he needed some German knowledge. But it seems that he went beyond the basics, possibly even beyond intermediate level.

What's Schulenglisch? I discovered this word today too: Schadenfreude.

It is the English you learn at Schule. Now that is the Swahili word for school. Skynet, I kid you not. But it, first and foremost, is the German one. In Swahili, you spell it shule.

And as for Schadenfreude, it of course is important to know words like these. It even became a part of English, like some others. But let me tell you... there are people without Schadenfreude (except for some extreme situations). One of them is a particular "less than half of a geek but above zero" that you just might know do know.

[Skynet]

What do you think of the CLE Grammaire Avancé ? I got the Grammaire Perfectionnement but I don't really use it for daily study because the lessons are quite random. I'd like to get the Avancé but only if the lessons build on each other.

What's the Comprehension Orale like ? Does it focus on speaking, listening comprehension or both?

How do you like the CLE Vocabulaire?

Sorry for so many questions. I don't have the means to buy lots of different books so I'm very interested in the opinions of others. Plus, your dogged determination is very inspiring to me!

No, you're not bothering me at all. I write publicly to share my experiences. Thank-you for the compliment, I really appreciate it.

I should do a proper review of the CLE courses for other French-learners here at some point. For now, please accept my humble and concise it's-01:00-at-night review.

a) Grammaire Perfectionnement is the highest level of the "Grammaire" series and is designed for C1+/C2 learners. Avancé is for B2+/C1 and I too find the series random as you can never predict what is going to come next. For example, in chapter 2 (Adjectives), I learnt the name of fractions, multiplication, subtraction, addition, division and the order of adjectives. I thought that everything besides "the order of adjectives" should not have been in the chapter, but ultimately, everything was useful albeit disorganised. I am using the 1st edition (1997) and am certain that modern editions have rectified these issues. I can absolutely see that progression of the course from the intermediate book that I completed, and can only hope that I will see the same with Perfectionnement. Rating: KEEP IT.

b) Comprehension Orale is incredible for one's listening because they (CLE) do not hold your hand at all. I was expecting an Assimil-esque cadence with the beginner course (A1/2), and was very, very startled to find that they spoke similar to RFI News in Slow French. Suffice it to say, I ran for the hills! The conversations that you participate in by listening and summarising are very, very spontaneous. For example, two days ago, I went through an ominous lesson about an earthquake in Tokyo and the chaos that ensued. Sadly, I do not have an answer key, so I have to be extra careful with this course. I imagine that this would be perfect for shadowing, as the conversations are at native speed. (Confession: I still do not know how to spell in French because I skipped that pre-lesson section in every course that had it. Now, I am paying for it.) Rating: BUY ONLY IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH LISTENING or NEED NATIVE-SPEED CONTENT FOR SHADOWING.

c) Vocabulaire is actually fun because a few chapters contain crosswords! When I got it, I thought that it would be vocab lists...It's more like pictures, crosswords, true/false, select the right word(s) and fill in the blanks. This series is probably the least useful as you can gain the necessary vocab from reading widely, like how we learnt out broad vocab in our native languages. I will admit that, for those who are rushing for an exam, this course is convenient as it has very, very diverse topics. Chapter 6 was titled, " Les mouvements, les gestes and les postures." (I kid you not, you cannot make this stuff up!) Rating: BUY ONLY IF YOU ARE RUSHING AGAINST TIME TO SIT AN EXAM.