Massive Input in Berlin: Patrick's German/Spanish log

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patrickwilken
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby patrickwilken » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:02 am

reineke wrote:I now see that you "cheated" with Anki & German. Et tu, Brutus? Brute? I enjoyed Breaking Bad in Br. Portuguese. Not so much in Spanish. The French version was OK, I think. Hello and good luck.


Cheated? I did Anki for a year and got a basic vocabulary before switching to native materials; or actually I switched to native materials fairly quickly (first film in a cinema after four months), but did Anki for a year before stopping.

I've been using Anki for Spanish for the last nine months. So far I've got about 2200 words at various stages of learning (essentially the word lists from my A1 textbook). I find it useful and intend to keep using it while I start to access native materials.

I started reading the first Harry Potter book "Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal" yesterday on my Kindle with a pop-up dictionary. God it's hard. Still I remember my first 200 page German book took about a month to read, but this seems much harder.

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And simultaneously I started reading Greg Egan's Quarantäne in German. This fulfills one of my earlier goals, which was to get to a level of German where I could learn simply by buying cheap secondhand paperbacks with lurid covers in flea-markets around Berlin. :D

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I am also working through Season 3 of Peppa Pig in Spanish without subtitles (a show my daughter loved when she was two). My understanding is pretty limited, mostly words, not sentences, but it's good to just hear the language spoken.



For German I am currently watching the second season of Jessica Jones on Netflix.

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German Spanish
1500 Movies : 1389 / 1500100 Movies : 4 / 100
50000 Pages : 41089 / 500005000 Pages : 0 / 5000

All goals to be completed by 31.12.19.

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reineke
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby reineke » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:52 pm

patrickwilken wrote:
reineke wrote:I now see that you "cheated" with Anki & German. Et tu, Brutus? Brute?....


Cheated? I did Anki for a year and got a basic vocabulary before switching to native materials; or actually I switched to native materials fairly quickly (first film in a cinema after four months), but did Anki for a year before stopping.


"Cheated."

I was referring to this:

patrickwilken wrote:
reineke wrote: It's difficult enough trying to convince people with sizable vocabularies to start consuming native content....


Actually I was inspired by reading a blog post of your Italian learning a few years ago to try something similar with German and started watching German media when I was still around A1. I started with dubbed version of South Park (it was easily available) and was quite pleased I understood a few words (I remember watching one episode and being pleased to understand the word for volcano and that was about it). After about three-four months I saw my first movie in a cinema in Berlin and was happy to understand about 40%. After that it just keep getting easier. After four years (and +1200 movies/TV Shows) I am now at +99% comprehension for TV/Movies.


I suppose Anki is how you got to around A1 in German.
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patrickwilken
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby patrickwilken » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:45 am

reineke wrote:I suppose Anki is how you got to around A1 in German.


My German learning wasn't a clean experiment. I had lived in the country in an English speaking bubble on-and-off for a few years, and had tried to learn German via classes a couple of times without success.

What finally worked for me was a quick overview read for German grammar (using a short Dover book aimed at 1950s business travelers), plus Anki to learn some basic vocabulary and get some exposure to grammar via sentences. At the same time I signed up for the first Super Challenge, which was 10000 pages of reading plus a 100 movies (I eventually watched 300 during that time). I was one of the few to complete the challenge a year-and-a-half later, at which point my German was round B2 level.

I am totally convinced that immersion in native materials is the only really effective way to learn a language, but you need some sort of bridge to start with.
6 x




German Spanish
1500 Movies : 1389 / 1500100 Movies : 4 / 100
50000 Pages : 41089 / 500005000 Pages : 0 / 5000

All goals to be completed by 31.12.19.

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Jaleel10
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby Jaleel10 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:59 am

patrickwilken wrote:I started reading the first Harry Potter book "Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal" yesterday on my Kindle with a pop-up dictionary. God it's hard. Still I remember my first 200 page German book took about a month to read, but this seems much harder.


Oof, you have my sympathy. I remember giving up on the first page lol. Promised myself I'd return to it after I finish my graded readers. But I will tell you one thing though, it does get easier. I was casually reading through the first chapter on Sunday, this is after 4 or 5 months lol, and well uhm, I didn't lose hope after the first page :lol: Progress, I suppose.

I am also working through Season 3 of Peppa Pig in Spanish without subtitles (a show my daughter loved when she was two). My understanding is pretty limited, mostly words, not sentences, but it's good to just hear the language spoken.


I posted a link to the first season in the Spanish resources page, it even has subtitles :)

I am connoisseur of kids content (that does not sound creepy at all), I watched quite a few kids shows the last two months so if you ever need recommendations, you know where to find me! Feel free to browse Netflix's catalogue, they don't have plenty but it's okay. Fabuloso Vocabulario is one of my favourites, even has accurate subtitles.
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patrickwilken
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby patrickwilken » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:24 pm

Jaleel10 wrote:
patrickwilken wrote:I started reading the first Harry Potter book "Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal" yesterday on my Kindle with a pop-up dictionary. God it's hard. Still I remember my first 200 page German book took about a month to read, but this seems much harder.


Oof, you have my sympathy. I remember giving up on the first page lol. Promised myself I'd return to it after I finish my graded readers. But I will tell you one thing though, it does get easier.


I started the second chapter today and found it surprisingly easier. I have lots of gaps in my vocabulary, but I had the impression that I was for the most part looking up words and not the meanings of entire sentences.

I uploaded my ebook version to Readlang, which I used previously for German, which gives a much better reading experience, when you have to look up lots of words. I also like the way it allows you to export words/sentences directly into Anki later if you want. Though given all the words I don't know I will have to be quite selective if I don't want to end up with a few years of Anki just from the first book of Harry Potter.

Jaleel10 wrote:I posted a link to the first season in the Spanish resources page, it even has subtitles :) .


Thanks. I am pretty well wedded to Netflix as a language learning resource. My daughter is three years old, so I have a lot of experience with children's shows. :D Personally, I prefer not to watch with subtitles. I find it makes me listen more and have the satisfaction that whatever I understand I have gained from my TL.
1 x




German Spanish
1500 Movies : 1389 / 1500100 Movies : 4 / 100
50000 Pages : 41089 / 500005000 Pages : 0 / 5000

All goals to be completed by 31.12.19.

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patrickwilken
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby patrickwilken » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:02 am

So I just bit the bullet and paid for an electronic subscription to Süddeutsche Zeitung. It's 20 Euros for the first two months, then increases to 35 Euros/month thereafter, but it's money well spent if it pushes me into German and away the New York Times and the Guardian which I have been reading.

BTW: The paid app is a much nicer reading experience than the free version of the app. Go figure!

https://plus.sueddeutsche.de/
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German Spanish
1500 Movies : 1389 / 1500100 Movies : 4 / 100
50000 Pages : 41089 / 500005000 Pages : 0 / 5000

All goals to be completed by 31.12.19.

garyb
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby garyb » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:39 am

Nice to see you back!

I'm curious about whether you're taking a more "productive" approach with Spanish after your German experience, or sticking to mostly-receptive? I remember from your old log that you were very focused on input and avoided grammar study and speaking except when necessary, and in the end concluded quite logically that your comprehension was great but your grammar and speaking were weak considering the hundreds of hours you had put in. It was an interesting experiment, although I thought that while the idea of perfecting comprehension before working on output has its merits it was a strange choice for someone living in Germany. On the other hand, you've not mentioned any plans to travel or live in Spanish-speaking areas, and that kind of approach could make more sense when you're not in any rush to speak.

I'm personally taking a more input-focused approach to Spanish than I did with my other languages. My progress is significantly slower (my Spanish after a couple of years is nowhere near where my Italian was after one, but there are also other factors in that like less study time overall), but it's certainly a more relaxing and less stressful way to learn and that's what I needed since life is busy and I'm not willing to put the kind of time and effort into languages that I did a few years ago.
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patrickwilken
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby patrickwilken » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:59 am

garyb wrote:I'm curious about whether you're taking a more "productive" approach with Spanish after your German experience, or sticking to mostly-receptive? I remember from your old log that you were very focused on input and avoided grammar study and speaking except when necessary, and in the end concluded quite logically that your comprehension was great but your grammar and speaking were weak considering the hundreds of hours you had put in. It was an interesting experiment, although I thought that while the idea of perfecting comprehension before working on output has its merits it was a strange choice for someone living in Germany.


Hi Garyb:

Nice to see so many old faces here!

I think I am very much wedded to input-first, output-later. Spanish is just a relaxed hobby. I wanted to learn a romance language and holiday in Spain and/or Italy each year, and in the end figured Spanish would give me more culture (i.e., books/films). My ulitimate aim in about 3-5 years is to be at a strong B2-level.

Small correction: I have never avoided speaking German here in Berlin. However, until you are in the B2 range most people automatically switch to English so it's hard to really communicate. If you do speak German people rarely correct you as they are interested in communicating and not teaching.

However, I found that the speaking came quite naturally along with the comprehension. While my speaking is (perhaps) weaker than my comprehension I can communicate about whatever I want. Mostly I fall down when it comes to specialist vocabulary (e.g., to do with the Berlin school system or something like that).

I would say that I have been at a rough C1 range for German for a while, though with some obvious weaknesses.

I am curious why you think you were faster learning Italian by concentrating on output. For me my biggest weakness has always been vocabulary, which you have to learn via Input (no?). Most of the grammar comes along for the ride given you do enough input.
1 x




German Spanish
1500 Movies : 1389 / 1500100 Movies : 4 / 100
50000 Pages : 41089 / 500005000 Pages : 0 / 5000

All goals to be completed by 31.12.19.

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Elenia
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby Elenia » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:41 pm

Great to see you back! I'm looking forward to following your new log :)
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Sgt Schultz
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Re: Patrick's German/Spanish log

Postby Sgt Schultz » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:49 pm

Hi Patrick,

I know this is a bit off topic, but I was curious what your thoughts on living in Berlin were? My soon to be wife and I want to live in Europe for a few years and Berlin has become a top choice due to me being a software engineer and the wealth of those type of jobs there. Have you liked the city/Germany in general? Thanks in advance :)
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