Ezrae Via Linguarum Classicarum

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Ezra
Yellow Belt
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 176

March Update

Postby Ezra » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:44 am

Language learning in March was very low-intensive. There is number of reasons for that: XCOM 1/2 being the primary one (I would like to say there were some more serious reasons... but, well, I could lie to myself, but my time-management app will not).

Latin (7 h)

Continuing with Erasmus' Colloquia.

Hebrew (7 ½ h)

Continuing with Samuel II.

Japanese (1 ½ h)

Japanese surely is not in favour last months. I started to read A Basic Dictionary of Japanese Grammar, but it seems to me there is no escape from Monokuma and Danganronpa 2, though I will be able to start it only in June.

Italian

Only Italian got lucky past month as I played XCOM in this language :)!

Some plans and ideas

I have two ideas for summer projects. The first one is to make an Italian dash, that is to finish «L'italiano secondo il metodo natura». My Italian is perfect, well... perfect for the job: to read Athenaze, but I still would like to finish the textbook properly.

The second one is to make a similar feat for German. Another very good textbook for Ancient Greek «Griechischer Lehrgang» is written in German, and it would be great to use it as well. Let's suppose, I need 150-200 hours to learn enough German to be able to read slowly this textbook (I base this number on what is written in "German for reading"), it means 50 - 65 hours a month during summer. Somewhat intense but feasible. Worth to try.
3 x
1000 pages in Latin: 341 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 731 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

Ezra
Yellow Belt
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 176

German, Japanese & My New Headphones

Postby Ezra » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:48 pm

I've made two adjustments to my language learning schedule.

First, I was able to secure two more time-slots. Every workday I commute to and from my workplace that makes about 40-50 minutes spent in the subway. Moscow's metro is a pretty noisy place, so I was not using this time for anything useful earlier (I do not like to read in trains), but my new headphones were able to solve this problem. Those are Bose's Quietcomfort 35 II with active noice cancellation. It really works miracles to reduce the noise and it is very possible now to listen to something. I decided to devote this time-slots to Japanese, which was quite neglected last few months, and listen to Japanese podcasts.

Second, I started learning German :D. I know, I said I will start it in June. Could not restrain myself :D. The book that was chosen to guide me to the heights of German reading ability is «German for Reading: A Programmed Approach for Graduate and Undergraduate Reading Courses». It features an interesting approach as its main goal is to make you start reading German as fast as possible (and it is specifically oriented to scholars who need ability to read German for their scholar studies -- this is, basically, my situation).
3 x
1000 pages in Latin: 341 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 731 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

Ezra
Yellow Belt
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 176

Ultimate Russian Test

Postby Ezra » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:50 pm

I visited a lecture, devoted to XIX-century Russian classical education, told by one of the best Russian classicists, and bought a book with his translation of Homer's Illiad into Russian using alexandrine (a type of verse). Those who learn(ed) Russian might want to try their skills against a couple of samples. First:

Гомерова Иліада wrote:За стѣны градскія бѣжавъ какъ робки лани,
Переводили духъ усталые трояне,
И пили съ жадностью и отирали потъ.
Щиты на раменахъ, ахейцы шли впередъ.
Лишь Гектор не ушелъ. Окованъ злой судьбою,
У Скейскихъ былъ онъ вратъ и не вернулся въ Трою.


And

Гомерова Иліада wrote:Ахейцы строились и снаряжались въ станѣ
Вокругъ тебя, Пелидъ, ненасытимый въ брани;
Напротивъ, на холмѣ, стояла Трои рать.
Ѳемидѣ повелѣлъ Кронидъ боговъ собрать:
Съ Олимпа высоты пустилася въ дорогу,
Явиться всѣмъ веля къ Зевесову чертогу;
Всѣ реки собрались (лишь Океана мощь
Къ Зевесу не пришла), и нимфы лѣпыхъ рощъ,
Луговъ и родниковъ, — всѣ, всѣ въ твою обитель
Сошлися на совѣтъ, о Зевсъ тучегонитель!
3 x
1000 pages in Latin: 341 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 731 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

Ezra
Yellow Belt
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 176

April Update

Postby Ezra » Thu May 02, 2019 10:48 am

There were number of serious changes in April. As a result, I am back to serious studying of (non)classical languages! Ability to read in Latin, Hebrew and Ancient Greek is reinstated as my main goal for a foreseeable future.

Latin (25 ¾ h)

Almost 26 hours is a welcome change comparing to meager 7 hours last month and ~15 hours a couple of months before. My progress in Latin is not bad, but, at the same time, not as great as I would like.

I continued to read Erasmus «Colloquia» and also added a reader called «Puer Romanus». It is a short novella about Roman boy who tells about his living as, well, a Roman boy. I also would like to add something to read as a parallel reading, but I can not yet make up my mind on that. I tried Seneca -- well, certainly a possibility, but... Bible? I already read it in Hebrew and will have to use it for other classical languages. Not necessarily for Ancient Greek but certainly for Aramaic, Arabic, Sanskrit -- whatever might be first after Ancient Greek. Maybe I should try already some bilingual editions like Kuzari (Latin - Hebrew)? I looked at it some time ago and it looked like doable, though...

Hebrew (17 ¼ h)

Hebrew is also got his absolute share increased. 17 hours comparing to 7 hours before! Isn't it great? :) I continue to read the Book of Kings (Melakhim) I. Here is an interesting thing I noted: in first books of Tanakh the syntax and structure of sentences are much more simpler. As we go further, sentences' complexity increases, and they become bigger in size. While a chapter has roughly the same number of verses, it is considerably longer. Luckily, I am reading much better now and can cover 1-2 chapters in a day as before! :D

In Hebrew department, my plans are the same — to continue reading Tanakh.

(Btw, can I use this expression at all -- "In Hebrew department"? And should it be used with "a" or "the"? :o)

Japanese (10 h)

Ta-da! Japanese is back! I've started to study through «A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar». The idea is to read a grammar point entry, and write 5-10 sentences using this grammar point. There also shoud be two review in a week and a month respectively.

But that's not all! Danganronpa is back too! :lol: I started a second installment in the series. After three month of disuse, reading kanji was like realing through blurred window, but after an hour or two it got better. I still forgot quite a few characters and words.

There is another thing about Japanese. Remember, I wrote about IELTS and daring plans to pass similar exams in another languages?

Ezra wrote:I liked the exam overall and even had an idea to start taking CEFR exams for my French and Spanish in succession from A2 to B2 :lol:. But after some time I calmed down and decided to put this idea on an indefinite hold until either I have much more time to devote to languages, or the necessity arises.

I am thinking about trying JLPT this December. Not sure though, should I try N4 or go straight to N3, but I think it worth to make a try in any case. Both N4 and N3 cost only 35-40$, so it is not I am losing much.

Italian (1 h)

What I really should is to finish «L'italiano secondo il metodo natura» quick and proceed to «German for Reading».

German (¾ h)

What I really should do is to proceed to «German for Reading» after finishing «L'italiano secondo il metodo natura» quickly.
4 x
1000 pages in Latin: 341 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 731 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

Ezra
Yellow Belt
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 176

A Summer Project

Postby Ezra » Sun May 05, 2019 11:07 pm

Thanks to one of forum members I was able to get a hold on English version of Zuntz Greek course. It means I can put off learning German for now. Provided that I will have finished Italian textbook by the end of May, I will have some room for a summer project: to dabble into yet another language! Well, on the one hand it could be German :), on the other hand as I am an extremely pragmatic person, and it is quite obvious there are other languages higher on priorities list. After some contemplation, I chose Aramaic for a summer project.

First, this language is very close to Hebrew, so my time-investments should be within a scope of a "summer project".

Second, it will complement my studies neatly as somewhere in autumn I might reach the book of Daniel which is in Aramaic.

There are some potential issues with Aramaic script(s) but for a time being I will limit myself with Aramaic used for Jewish religious writings.
Last edited by Ezra on Mon May 06, 2019 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
2 x
1000 pages in Latin: 341 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 731 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Blue Belt
Posts: 905
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: usa
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 1444

Re: April Update

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sun May 05, 2019 11:56 pm

Ezra wrote:There were number of serious changes in April. As a result, I am back to serious studying of (non)classical languages! Ability to read in Latin, Hebrew and Ancient Greek is reinstated as my main goal for a foreseeable future.

I continued to read Erasmus «Colloquia» and also added a reader called «Puer Romanus». It is a short novella about Roman boy who tells about his living as, well, a Roman boy.

In Hebrew department, my plans are the same — to continue reading Tanakh.

(Btw, can I use this expression at all -- "In Hebrew department"? And should it be used with "a" or "the"? :o)

I would say 'the' Hebrew department.

Do you find Colloquia interesting, or do you read it just because it is (sort of) easy?

Here is a bit of a reading by Evan Millner of Puer Romanus: . His reading of the excerpt begins at 2:58. Before that there is included a promo from him about his recording of the entire book.
1 x
Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.

Ezra
Yellow Belt
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 176

Re: April Update

Postby Ezra » Mon May 06, 2019 8:55 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Do you find Colloquia interesting, or do you read it just because it is (sort of) easy?

Well, if I were able to read better in Latin, I would probably skip it for his other works, but for now his Colloquia are quite good. He has a sense of humour, and these dialogs are not dull. Actually, I much more prefer them to Caesar's descriptions how he moved this and that legion to this and that province :).

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Here is a bit of a reading by Evan Millner of Puer Romanus:

His reading of the excerpt begins at 2:58. Before that there is included a promo from him about his recording of the entire book.

I should check it on his Patreon, maybe he did record it.
1 x
1000 pages in Latin: 341 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 731 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Blue Belt
Posts: 905
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: usa
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek, aiming for mastery by 2424. Studying a bit of Latin and Japanese. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 1444

Re: April Update

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Mon May 06, 2019 12:37 pm

Ezra wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:Do you find Colloquia interesting, or do you read it just because it is (sort of) easy?

Well, if I were able to read better in Latin, I would probably skip it for his other works, but for now his Colloquia are quite good. He has a sense of humour, and these dialogs are not dull. Actually, I much more prefer them to Caesar's descriptions how he moved this and that legion to this and that province :).

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Here is a bit of a reading by Evan Millner of Puer Romanus:

His reading of the excerpt begins at 2:58. Before that there is included a promo from him about his recording of the entire book.

I should check it on his Patreon, maybe he did record it.

Personally, I would rather read the telephone book than Caesar, but that's just me. Maybe I should have read the Colloquia before I gave up on Latin.
0 x
Tu sabes cuando sales pero no sabes cuando regresas.

Ezra
Yellow Belt
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 176

Starting Ancient Greek, an Italian project, and a breakthrough

Postby Ezra » Fri May 10, 2019 12:14 pm

Italian Project

So I've started Ancient Greek. Not much has been done, just opened Athenaze and started to read an introduction which is in Italian language. First thing I noted it that my Italian got considerably better after reading thirty lessons of «L'italiano secondo il metodo natura» (out of fifty). Actually, I was able to read without serious difficulties. Out of interest, I checked a book in Italian, which I wanted to read, that is called «Storia della lingua ebraica» ("History of Hebrew Language"). Well, I could read it without any serious difficulties. Not that fast as English or Russian, but it was much better experience than my first unadapted book in French. Much, much better.

Then I had two revelations. First, I do not really want to continue reading the textbook. It is very good but if I can instead read a useful and interesting book about history of Hebrew language then it is better to do just that. Second, I remembered a discussion in One Million Sentences to Mastery? and thought of an experiment. Why not read one million sentences and then look how much additional efforts I will need to get to "mastery", let's say, C1? I do think there is something in it, as my English really took off after reading something like 50-100 books in it.

I made some quick math, and it seems that one million sentences is about 50000-66000 pages. Let it be 50000, provided I will have some additional practice in playing XCOM 2 (or other games in Italian) and maybe occasional TV/Movie watching. At first, 50000 pages sounds like huge number but actually it is about 150 books. And 150 books is certainly a lot but very possible. I am not sure how long it might -- I guess from 3 to 10 years depending on circumstances, but there is no hurry. I've put a counter to my signature with a less daring goal for now: a "meager" five thousand. Well, if I will read at least this much, it will be a failure but a graceful one :).

Breakthrough

I have experienced something like a breakthrough in my studies of Hebrew. Earlier, even with using parallel-text (which lower number of dictionary look-ups significantly, as well as providing an aid in case of confusing syntax) I was able to read only about a chapter-two in a day and no longer than hour. Now I am able to read 3-5 chapters up to four hours a day (in two blocks).

Also, I often check my skills against "The Itinerary of Benjamin of Tudela" which is a mediaeval travelling account of one rabbi called Benjamin of Tudela. It is written in straightforward and relatively simple language, so I intend to make it my first book to read without an aid of parallel text. Earlier, when I was starting to read from random spot, I would be stricken with a feeling of being "overwhelmed". It is not only about unknown words but more like my brain was not able to process sentences for long (seems more like difficulties with analysing sentences' structure). Now I can open this book and read from almost any random spot. Sure, there are unknown words, but I do not feel being "overwhelmed" almost immediately. Seems like I might last for a half of a page, maybe even one :D.
5 x
1000 pages in Latin: 341 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 731 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

Ezra
Yellow Belt
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 176

May Update

Postby Ezra » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:25 am

A fabulous month. I had two weeks off, and this translated to much more hours devoted to languages.

Japanese (29 h)

Japanese is the leader of the month. A lion share (22 h) was spent on playing Danganronpa 2, while 5 hours were spent on reading "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar". I also spent some time on watching a couple of Japanese streams of "7 Days to Die". Japanese is getting better but, it seems, it is still a long road ahead... I can already sight-read Latin and Italian in Wikipedia (which I use as a quick assessment test), even Modern Hebrew (although I run out of steam pretty fast) but Japanese? :cry:

(Decided to check and went to Wikipedia. Actually, it got better, though far-far-far away from my abilities in other languages.)

Latin (28 h)

In May my Latin-learning activity was divided between reading "Puer Romanus" and reading Loeb's edition Augustine's "Confessiones". I am ardent user of parallel-text reading method, but could not find a good text to read. Finally, I settled on "Confessiones" and it turned out to be a good choice. Not only the book itself is quite interesting, Augustine has a very elegant but not too verbose style (English translation, on the contrary, has to use way more words to convey meaning; I did learn some new thing about English, for example, "wert" which is a form of "was" to be used with "thou" :shock: ). After reading about twenty pages of Augustine, I noticed that my understanding of conjunctive improved a lot -- before, it was driving me mad. "Puer Romanus" suddenly became much more easier (should I say puerile?) as well.

Hebrew (22 ½ h)

I finished the Books of Kings and then made a break. Next one is the book of Isaiah and it is a big one. Would be great to read it during June.

Italian Megaproject (23 ½ h)

So I stopped reading the textbook and started walking up to this seemingly endless road of reading fifty thousands pages in Italian :roll:. First of all, I had to make changes in my reading habits and found Italian translations for most of the books in my immediate reading queue. I still would not like to read translations of fiction, but translations of scholar works in Italian, it seems, are of high quality. I also downloaded some books on history of Italian literature (in Italian), and there were already some works written in Italian on my list as well.

"Storia della lingua ebraica" became the first one. It turned out not to be this interesting as I expected: way too much space devoted to phonological shifts. Probably, because I was expecting something more along "history of literature" lines. Still, I intend to read it until the end -- it is not that big.

Ancient Greek (10 h)

I've started to read Zuntz' textbook. Ancient Greek is somewhat scary.

Aramaic versus German

I wrote earlier that summer project is going to be Aramaic. Well, it is going to be German :). There are two major reasons. First, to learn Aramaic I will have to start reading Bible again, and I am not keen to do that not having finished it yet. Second, German is a part of my Inner Circle of Languages, and German (together with Ancient Greek) is necessary to complete it. After giving it another thought, I decided not to give in to wanderlust and stay on course. Also, as I now has both German and English editions of Zuntz' textbook, I will be able to do parallel-text German-English reading while learning Ancient Greek! ;)
Last edited by Ezra on Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
5 x
1000 pages in Latin: 341 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 731 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000


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