Ezrae Via Linguarum Classicarum

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Ezra
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Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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Re: 2021 in Review

Postby Ezra » Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:00 am

verdastelo wrote:I want to unread your post. I have already convinced myself that Russian is a great language to learn in conjunction with Classical Chinese and I don't have to learn German first to learn Classical Chinese grammar.

Well, you surely are not required to learn German in order to learn Classical Chinese ;). It just so happens that I need to improve my German somehow and there is a thick Classical Chinese grammar book... in German! :D Actually, I can not say now how good (or bad) is Unger's grammar except he is intolerably meticulous in a very German fashion.

verdastelo wrote:One of the first books I purchased on landing in Russia was the three-volume Курс древнекитайского языка (A Course of Classical Chinese).

I do not have it, but be wary: this particular textbook uses Simplified characters which is a serious downside in my opinion.

verdastelo wrote:Neither the Neon.University's course nor Ханмун. Вводный курс 漢文入門 (Hanmun: An Introductory Course 漢文入門) presuppose a knowledge of Mandarin. The latter book has an answer key in the end, so it's ideal for self-study.

I've checked "Ханмун". Indeed, an interesting book, looks useful as most of CC textbooks are oriented to ancient classics while this one is made with medieval Classical Chinese Korean texts in mind. I might go through it as well.

Then there is Nikitina's two-volume Грамматика древнекитайских текстов (A Grammar of the Classical Chinese Texts). I fell in love with the book. She identifies 10 structures and builds on that. Her methodology assures me that I will not miss Ulrich Unger. Here's an illustration

I have it but to be honest I did not like it :). But YMMV.

I'll start chipping away at both Mandarin and Classical Chinese this year. I really want to learn German, Japanese, and Korean but I cannot afford to. You have only 24 hours in a day.

You are absolutely right. Do not worry: neither knowledge of Japanese or of German are strict requirements for learning Classical Chinese! You are going to be totally fine :). Now, you might also find Oshanin's «Большой китайско-русский словарь» useful (though it is not as good for Classical Chinese as Le Gran Ricci).
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verdastelo
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Re: 2021 in Review

Postby verdastelo » Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:58 am

Ezra wrote:Now, you might also find Oshanin's «Большой китайско-русский словарь» useful (though it is not as good for Classical Chinese as Le Gran Ricci).


Checked.

Image

I believe that this dictionary is also available online on bkrs.info.
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The life of man is but a succession of vain hopes and groundless fears. — Monte(s)quieu

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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Re: 2021 in Review

Postby Ezra » Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:31 pm

verdastelo wrote:I believe that this dictionary is also available online on bkrs.info.

Well, originally brks.info was, indeed, based on Oshanin's dictionary but it was almost twenty years ago :). So, on the one side, they amended a lot of errors and added a lot of modern words, on the other, they removed a lot of old meanings making bkrs.info unsuitable for Classical Chinese. It is very good for Mandarin though.
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Ezra
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Posts: 185
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Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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Anki tricks

Postby Ezra » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:13 am

So I've returned to using Anki for my Japanese studies. At first, my goal was to go through «Core 10K + Pics + Aud» within one year, so I've started to rush through the deck and quickly reached untenable number of reviews. After some thought I've decided to approach this from another angle and set a fixed number of reviews (200). For example, if I have 210 reviews for tomorrow after going through today's cards then I do not add new words. On the other side, if I have 165 reviews for tomorrow, I set 35 new cards. It works much better this way.

The other Anki feature I've (re)discovered is filtered decks. I've started (as usual when I am learning Japanese) to play Danganronpa, but this time I've decided to do this smart way by adding unknown words to Anki. Now, I want to cut the necessary job. I have two big decks: «Core 10K + Pics + Aud» plus «Core 10k Supplement» (additional 15k words), so a lot of times an unknown word is already in either of these two decks. Why not just activate a necessary word? Turns out, it is possible to do by using a filtered deck which is created by specifying a search query. Here is mine:

Code: Select all

(((deck:"Core 10K + Pics + Aud") OR (deck:"Core 10k Supplement")) AND tag:dr AND is:new) OR (deck:"Core 10k Addendum" AND (is:new))

Basically, it says "give me all new cards with `dr` tag from «Core 10K + Pics + Aud» and «Core 10k Supplement» OR just new words from «Core 10k Addendum»".

If an unknown word is in either of two pre-made decks, I tag with "dr" tag. If it is not, I add to my custom «Core 10k Addendum» deck. Then i go to filtered «From Danganronpa» deck and click "Rebuild". Voila! I get all unknown words I've just seen in Danganronpa! After I go through them in a regular Anki manner they are returned to their respective decks and no longer are considered as new.
9 x

Ezra
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Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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Re: Ezrae Via Linguarum Classicarum

Postby Ezra » Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:11 pm

What a year.
7 x

Ezra
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Posts: 185
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Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
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Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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In which the Protagonist contemplates his personal and world's affairs of the year 2022

Postby Ezra » Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:43 pm

A lot of things have changed during the last year and many things turned to the worse. As one catacomb Livejournal thinker wittingly put it: "Welcome to the fourth 2020th!". My life have also changed significantly, though not necessarily to the worse.

Unlike my many compatriots, especially those from IT, a sector to which yours truly is also blessed to belong, I did not leave the country neither in the beginning of the war nor during mobilization. The idea of emigrating just because my country started a war against other country was never quite compelling to me. States do wage wars, moreover, they do this frequently. Especially, if those are European states, the Sovereign's tools of war, whoever or whatever this Sovereign is.

In spite of my philosophical outlook the whole situation did profoundly affect me. In the first days of "special military operation" I woke from the strongest panic attack I ever had, and during mobilization I was in extremely fatalistic mood. I had a lot of opportunities to leave if I'd so desire, but I've decided to flow with the current. I could not stand adding to my already grim disposition the feeling of fleeing. Looking at my compatriots, longing for the return, and trying to justify their choice, I was not inspired to follow their footsteps.

Now, a frequent Russian way of dealing with such a situation is to drink a lot of vodka, which I, indeed, followed with a little tweak: I've swapped vodka for languages. So, let's look for annual stats of 2022.

Latin: 330 h
Classical Chinese: 302 h
Japanese - 150 h
Hebrew - 123.5 h
Ancient Greek - 15 ½ h

Total: 921 h

Misc: I do not count this as language learning but in 2022 I did read quite lot in English (177 hours). There also were small forays to Spanish, Italian and German plains but I do not count them here.

As we can see, my practice was quite focused, though I did spend 150 hours on Japanese which did not really get me anywhere. To be honest, I did not progressed a lot in Classical Chinese either. Still, it had the most powerful anti-depression effect. Writing out "Three Character Classics" by hand helped me to sooth the mind during stressful days.

A better situation with Latin: I did not get to the end the end of Adler's opus (again), but it did help to solidify some darker points. I've also started to read Augustine's Confessions - this time without using a parallel translation. My Hebrew got little better as well. As for Ancient Greek -- it was a typical wonderlust move which I was able to contain successfully, and decided to proceed to Ancient Greek only when my Latin will be high level enough.

I did move from Russia to another country in 2023. But this is a story for another post.
10 x

Ezra
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Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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Some quick updates

Postby Ezra » Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:00 pm

In spite of general world's decline my journey along the plains and mountains of classical languagescape continues.

First, I've learned Cangjie input method which allows to type Classical Chinese as it is based on shape of the characters and not on sound like pinyin. I've used this guide.

Second, I've found a complete collection of Percy Jackson on my hard drive and, as a predictable result, decided to start Ancient Greek again. This time I've started with JACT books and not Athenaze. I will, probably, go through them after JACT.

Third, I've started to make composition exercises in Latin, which contributed to my ability to read it. Actually, the (relative) ease of it was one of the reasons why I decided to return to Greek. Previously they meddled with each other, but now this should not be a problem.
7 x

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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A list of languages to learn

Postby Ezra » Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:44 pm

This year is not going to be the most productive in regards to language learning. Hopefully, the next one will be better.

I've made some language learning planning when I was too tired to do some actual language learning. First, I've made a list of all languages I would like to learn (well, not really all, but most important of all). It featured twenty languages. To make it somewhat more realistic I trimmed it to include only those which are absolutely necessary, trying to complement a classical language with modern one which has a certain relation to the former. The final list was:

  • Latin + Spanish
  • Hebrew (it has both classical and modern form)
  • Greek (the same)
  • Classical Chinese + Japanese
Goals for Spanish and Modern Greek are B2 certificates, for Japanese — N1. Hebrew, AFAIK, has not CEFR-like framework, so the goal will be informal B2.

For Latin I would like to be able to read fluently and be able to write a blog in it. For pre-Modern stages of Greek being able to read decently will do. I am not sure about setting goals for Classical Chinese as it looks insurmountable whatever goal to set, but I will think more about it. I have a certain strategy but for now Latin and Hebrew are in focus.
8 x

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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December 2023

Postby Ezra » Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:14 pm

I've left my job in a big tech Russian company. The desire to part ways was mutual, but, at the end, we separated on good terms (in Russian IT industry we avoid dramas as plague).

The job was very stressful for me. Dreadful biweekly deadlines paired with necessity to push your work through workflows of other teams are not for someone of my psychological constitution, though I've survived almost a year. It was an interesting experience both in general and professional sense, but I will try to avoid this kind of companies in the future. Stress was almost always present from start of the day to the end and it has impacted my health in unhealthy ways. No more big tech, or, at least, not for this kind of money.

I have no need nor, to be honest, any desire to work right now, so I plan to devote next several month to languages and expanding my professional skills.

So, what's going on language-wise?

Latin

I am going through "Colloquia Scholastica" by Maturinus Corderius. It is a book of dialogs in Latin held by students in some kind of Renaissance or Early Modern education facility. There are some interesting bits on daily life at that time. For example, Germany was already considered as a producer of high quality machinery: one of the students boasts that the scalpel he bought earlier was produced in Germany (or so was the seller's claim).

Hebrew

I mix Modern and Classical content. For the latter I use Lingq and Youtube (for example, I like this channel of some Israeli guy who lives in Japan). I watch a video, then watch it other day again with looking up all unknown words in a dictionary and then rewatching it again from time to time.

For Classical I use Sefaria.

Spanish

My passive skills are pretty strong. It seems Latin somehow strengthened my rarely used Spanish. I use Lingq during my walks in the neighbouring park; also I've started to read “El infinito en un junco: La invención de los libros en el mundo antiguo” (on history of books). I am not sure how to approach active activities, especially writing. Maybe I will try something unconventional like translation a shorter book into Russian and back to Spanish like some old-school Latin teacher recommended in the past.

Classical Chinese

Oh, Classical Chinese... From all languages I've ever studied it the one most impenetrable. All others are pretty straightforward: just study each day and gradually get better. It did not seem to work using my previous approaches, or, at least, getting better was too slow, almost imperceptible.

I've synthesized new one based on my previous attempts which involves typing out CC text with phonetic transcription underneath. It looks like this:

舜人也。
шунь жэнь е.
三人行。
сань жэнь син
聖人作樂。
шэнжэнь цзо юэ
父教之忠。
фу цзяо чжи чжун
子為誰。
цзы вэй шэй
箕子為之奴。
цзицзы вэй чжи ну
王使人來。
ван ши жэнь лай

As you can see I went with Russian Palladius' system in order to save time and efforts. If Japanese Confucians used their local pronunciation for Chinese characters, so can I.

It does seem I better memorize CCs this way. Also I can refer to the typed out text later.
9 x

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 631

January 2024

Postby Ezra » Sat Feb 03, 2024 2:41 pm

The month was wonderful! At last I could devote as much time to language learning as I desired. Here is some January stats:

Latin — 39 ½ h
Hebrew — 24 h
Classical Chinese — 25 ½ h
Greek — 11 ½ h
Spanish — 5 h

Plus about 20 hours of walking in a neighbouring park which I use for listening to Lingq (Hebrew, Greek, Spanish, Italian).

So, what was I doing?

For Latin, I've finished  "Colloquia Scholastica" by Maturinus Corderius and proceeded to “Exercitia Spiritualia” by Ignatio Loyola. He, by the way, recommends to be moderate when whipping oneself and a good criterion is that pain should be felt in flesh, not in bones. We need pain (for penance), not illness, says Loyola.

For Hebrew, I’ve started to read the first novel from the Percy Jackson series (“The Lightning Thief” or “פרסי ג'קסון וגנב הברק“), which I had read ealier in English, and after a while decided to use Anki again. While absorbing vocabulary by reading works, one has to re-read the same material in order for this to be effective, and I do not want to re-read the same material again and again :). Instead, I enter unknown word into my custom deck. There are quite a few: for a single page I get 20-35 unknown words. I also use Anki for Latin text but there are much less unknown words: about 3-5 for a page. Number of unknown words also naturally regulate my time spent for the Hebrew language as I limit myself to learning 30-35 new Hebrew words a day.

Classical Chinese studies: moving further though Vogelzang’s book. I like my new method I’ve described earlier, it seems to be most effective of all I’ve used before. The long-term plan is to finish Vogelzang and continue to five-volume Angelo Zottoli’s magnum opus “Cursus litteraturæ sinicæ”.

I’ve signed up for a course of Greek (by Zoom). Teacher is a kind of dissident as he thinks we should treat Ancient, Medieval and Modern Greek as a single language, so he assembled an experimental group to learn both Ancient and Modern Greek at the same time. The main goal is to read Gospel in both variants in parallel. There is only one lesson a week, so it is implied most of work will be done by student him/herself. He (unsurprisingly) uses modern pronunciation. I’ve also do some Lingq for Greek now while walking in the park.

As for Spanish and Italian, I am still torn between Spanish and Italian. The latter has too much to offer to ignore it, and it seems to be a better companion for Latin. So in February I will focus on Italian, and we’ll see how it goes.
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