Ezrae Via Linguarum Classicarum

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Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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Dacha reflections

Postby Ezra » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:24 am

verdastelo wrote:I just stopped by to tell you that your Classical Chinese journey is inspiring. I will want to follow in your footsteps in a couple of years. Keep going!

Thanks! Will continue for sure though I slowed my CC studies a bit in August. But I will return :).

Non-language learning reflections

So, I've have spent my vacation in dacha (it seems English use is pretty settled on "in" versus "on" in Russian). Traditionally dacha is a seasonal house with a small(ish) plot of the land - usually 600 sq. meters. In Soviet times houses and amenities were quite humble but these days it is possible to solve most pressing issues (primarily toilet and shower) with technology and money to make it on par with city comfort. Houses are also might be of better quality - even all year round type though it requires more investment than seasonal.

My primary reflection is quietness of the place comparing to the city. City's problems, urges and general worries - especially on non personal issues like what is going on in the world now - are also felt much less. It was much easier to sit and study.

Language learning relections

Intentionally I restricted myself to Italian, Latin and reading Tanakh in Hebrew. Mostly it was doing Italian exercises in "Grammatica in contesto". Before and upon returning from dacha I've played some XCOM 2 in Italian and doing exercises made a big difference. Actually I was impressed with effectiveness. Who would thought that old-style type of study - actually sitting and slowly making through a textbook would make such an impact? :D

I also did some Latin exercises from Adler's book though much less than Italian.

Chronicles are being read at incredible slow rate. The main reason is that they are not very interesting - it is mostly a list of names.
6 x

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
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September Update

Postby Ezra » Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:57 pm

It was pretty industrious month though a bit average on the language learning side. I've devoted 80+ hours to non-language projects, Which Will Change Humanity For Ever which might give some advantages if I to search for a new job.

I also contemplated on my language learning path. I have a number of half-learned languages and decided it would be great to take some of them to a high level in order not only to be able to read but to do other activities as well, and — eventually — get it to official B2/C1 certification. For some time I wavered between Italian and German: both are immensely useful and both have great literary traditions. Eventually I will probably need both but which will be first? After spending some time in September with Italian and reading some articles on Italian thinkers (like this one) I've finally settled on it.
There was another consideration based on language affinity: Italian and Latin is a very good pair, and Latin I would like to take to a high level as well.

Italian 23 (39) hours

A lot of focus on Italian. I might even start another weekly log on Italian solely. My main activity is reading and doing exercises from «Grammatica in contesto». While authors expect a learner to fill blank spaces in exercises, I write all of them in full by hand. Another activity is reading in Italian. For now I decided to read some translated novels. We all know about marvels of Harry Potter which is well-translated into many languages but there are some other similar choices. For example, Roger Zelazny's Amber series, Moorcock's Elric series, Tolkien and George Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire". I've started with the first one - «Nove principi in Ambra». Not only Amber series has an engaging plot, it is also a useful manual for a practicing lucid dreamer!

I am not sure whether I should count it as language-learning activity but I played XCOM 2 in Italian for 16 hours.

German

German was much neglected in September but closer to the end of Month I returned to it. The main problem is that German has too much unknown words, and acquiring unknown vocabulary is a lot of pain. My Goldlisting has stalled in September but for October the plan is too goldlist 100 unknown words a day. I tried to goldlist 200 words a day but it turned to be not quite feasible.

Latin 14 hours

Currently reading Pierre Abelard «Sic et Non». It features 100+ questions on philosophical and theological questions but the text itself is not Abelard's. He presents quotes from other Christian thinkers pro et contra leaving it to a reader to decide which side to agree with. For the most part Latin is not too complex.

Also continuing to go through Adler's grammar (on 17th lesson).

Hebrew 5 hours

Still ploughing though Chronicles. Fortunately, chapters with names lists have finished and text has become more vivid.

Classical Chinese

Not much done in this department. Mostly Anki. Not sure how much time I will be able to devote in October.
6 x

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 631

October Update

Postby Ezra » Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:12 pm

German (23 hours)

During October I goldlisted 2220 words (72 words / day on average), 4000 in total. I strived for 100 words a day but took some days off. There was no «distilling». In November I plan only to distill lists without adding anything new. The final goal is to goldlist a whole dictionary (~12000 entr which is I consider this project as an experiment in (relatively) rapid acquirement of vocabulary, and depending on the result I will decide whether I will continue to use it for other languages.

Italian (20 hours)

Grammar studies: going through "Grammatica in contesto". Currently I am on 95th page (of 370).

Reading: Zelazny's "Nove principi in Ambra": a great fantasy book and an advanced lucid dreaming manual :). I've read about one third. Technically, it is re-reading as I've already read something like twenty years ago (in Russian).

Latin (13 hours)

Reading: Abelard's "Pro et contra" and "Rhetorica ad Herennium". I stumbled upon the title of the last one during my research on medieval art of memory. Having desire to memorize long poems in Latin and Psalms in Hebrew while having pretty average natural memory I've decided to adopt some traditional European memory techniques. For now I just research what's available but "Rhetorica ad Herennium" seems to be a cornerstone book.

Hebrew (12 ½ hours)

Reading: Chronicles II and "The Improvement of the Moral Qualities" (תקון מדות הנפש) by Solomon Ibn Gabirol. The last one is a very good analysis of good and bad moral qualities. An interesting thing is that he quotes not only traditional Jewish sources but Socrates, Aristotle and Arabic thinkers as well.

Classical Chinese (4 hours)

Well, things are slow here: I am focused on German and Italian for now, and there are some non-language related projects. I think it will be this way until the end of the year.

guyome shared some great Latin-Classical Chinese resources. The most interesting among them is Angelo Zottoli's 5-volume "Cursus Litteraturae Sinicae". Unlike modern manuals which are mostly focused on one period (usually no further than Han dynasty) and on grammar-syntax analysis, Zottoli's approach is much more holistic and he wants learner to be able to appreciate traditional styles of writing aesthetically and, eventually, even to be able to write in this styles! It looks magnificent but very demanding. He planned his course for five years: from zero to Classical Chinese hero :lol:.

Plans for November

German: distilling
Italian: continue to read "Nove principi in Ambra" and study "Grammatica in contesto"
Hebrew: finish Chronicles II
Latin: continue to read Abelard and "Rhetorica"; continue with Adler's grammar.
10 x

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 631

November Update

Postby Ezra » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:40 pm

November was quite industrious and productive, though about half of the time went to non-language-related projects. I've noticed two breakthroughs: one in Latin and the other in Hebrew. Reading (and understanding) has become much more easier, and in Latin I can read some books very fluently.

Hebrew (18 h)

Reading: I've read "The Improvement of the Moral Qualities" by Solomon ibn Gabirol. A very nice book, in which the author analyses twenty qualities of human soul. The main one for achieving success — whether in worldly things or spiritual — is diligence :D. I've also read several chapters in II Chronicles.

Latin (12 ½ h)

Reading: Pierre Abelard's «Pro et contra» and Robert Fludd's «De geomantia». Europeran geomancy is an interesting form of divination which somewhat resembles I Ching mixed with astrology.

Classical Chinese (18 h)

I've devised a new exercise which I called "exscriptio sinica", and it seems it works very well. I will devote a separate post to it. Excriptio of "Three Character Classics" (it is different to what I described in one of the previous updates) and Anki are my main activity for now.

Italian (14 ½ h)

Reading: «Nove principi di Ambra». They've got to Rebma (Arbma in Italian).
Grammar: «Grammatica in contesto». I'am on Unit 11.

German (13 h)

Goldlisting (no new headwords, just distilling) + Age of Wonder 3 in German.

Japanese (7 h)

I've found an interesting guide to Classical Chinese in Japanese «漢文入門» (Introduction in Classical Chinese), so my passion to Japanese was again rekindled. The guide is interesting: his author writes about Japanese practice of special marks which allows a reader to transform mechanically a text in Classical Chinese into a test in the subset of Classical Japanese. He also laments inability of modern students and teachers to read "white" texts (白文), i.e. without these guiding marks. His guide is intended to amend this situation.

I've also started a Japanese Anki deck "Core 10k" (with pictures and audio) — 20 new words for now; we will see is it enough, too little or too much.

Chinese (20 minutes)

Played a little with an Anki deck of Modern Chinese. Finally, decided to restrain myself. Japanese and CC first :D.

Plans for December

Main goals are to finish II Chronicles and read in Latin.
11 x

guyome
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Re: November Update

Postby guyome » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:02 pm

Ezra wrote:Classical Chinese (18 h)

I've devised a new exercise which I called "exscriptio sinica", and it seems it works very well. I will devote a separate post to it. Excriptio of "Three Character Classics" (it is different to what I described in one of the previous updates) and Anki are my main activity for now.
Looking forward to hearing more about this!
1 x

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 631

Discoveries

Postby Ezra » Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:34 pm

Latin

I've found an interesting word in "Opus Geomantiae Completum". In "Praefatio" author, someone H. de Pisis, explains why geomancy is supposed to work. He mentions Delphi Oracle and ways to overcome inhibition of soul and human mind to reach needed information. One of them is "debacchor". The word has catch my attention as its root is obviously "Bacchus", which is a Roman name of the Greek god of wine and religious ecstasy Dionysus.

Perseus gives this translation: "to rave like the Bacchantes, to rage without control, revel wildly". Interesting, the verb is deponent, i.e. it is active verb in grammatical passive voice, which is the Latin way to make reflexive verbs (when one is both a subject and an object of an action). It makes sense as during debacchoring one rages giving oneself fully to this rage.

Japanese

I am back into Japanese (and it is intense). Now, while reading about geomancy in Latin, I decided to check in Japanese wiki how "geomancy" was translated into Japanese and it turns out it was lazily converted using katakana into "ジオマンシー". Now, this is completely unacceptable :D. In European languages one is usually pretty well aware that "geo" means "earth" and some will correctly guess "mancy" to be about divination. In Japanese all this information is lost. ジオマンシー is just a streak of syllables - the only obvious thing is that it was an English word before. If I am to make a blog on geomancy in Japanese in no way I am going to use this nonsensical word. The right one is Chinese 探地術 (observe + earth + technique), so I've decided to borrow it into Japanese :lol:. It is pronounced as たんちじゅつ (tanchijutsu).
7 x

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MorkTheFiddle
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Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
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Re: Discoveries

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:42 pm

Ezra wrote:The right one is Chinese 探地術 (observe + earth + technique), so I've decided to borrow it into Japanese :lol:. It is pronounced as たんちじゅつ (tanchijutsu).

Tampering with languages is the way of The Llorg. Well done! :D
1 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 631

Re: Discoveries

Postby Ezra » Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:16 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Tampering with languages is the way of The Llorg. Well done! :D
Japanese is a great language but there is certainly a lot of room for improvement! :D
1 x

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Latin, Classical Hebrew
Studying: Classical Chinese, Italian, German, Japanese, Ancient Greek
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 631

2021 in Review

Postby Ezra » Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:55 pm

Another year has passed. In general, it was quite good but let's look at the stats.

Latin: 270 h
Hebrew: 104 h
Classical Chinese: 141 h, 1183 → 1815 characters
Japanese: 82 h, 1900 words
German: 124 h
Italian: 85 h

Total: 806+ h

Plus is because there were some bits and pieces for Spanish, French, Chinese and Ancient Greek.

Achievements

First, I had a breakthroughs for Latin and Hebrew. Reading in Latin has become much more fluent and fast, and reading in Hebrew, while not as fluent and fast as in Latin, has considerably improved.

Second, I've finished Tanach! Another book in Hebrew I've read last year is "תקון מדות הנפש" ("The Improvement of the Moral Qualities") by Solomon ibn Gabirol.

Third, I've increased number of hours devouted to languages. It is not radical but substantial: from 635 hours to about 850. I did not fulfill my goal of 1000+ hours though.

Plans for 2022

As my Latin and Hebrew improved enough to read and devout active study to something else, I moved to another goal - Classical Chinese and Japanese. The last one is a very good language to learn in conjunction with Classical Chinese, much better than Mandarin imo. I've started to rush through Core10k Anki deck, adding all characters into Classical Chinese deck (I consult Le Gran RIcci for that). So, here is the list of goals for 2022:

  • Japanese: Core 10k Anki deck + Harry Potter books
  • CC: excriptio sinica for Three Character Classics and Thousand Character Classics (I will write about excriptio after I debug and polish the whole procedure); read some textbook(s) for Classical Chinese; start to read Ulrich Unger's «Grammatik des klassischen chinesisch»
  • Latin: finish Adler's grammar; start to read Augustine's Opera omnia
  • Hebrew: Maimonides' "The Guide for Perplexed" and Halevi's Kuzari (I chose a bilingual Latin-Hebrew edition)
  • Italian: finish "Grammatica in contesto"; continue to read Amber's cycle.

As you see, I am going to focus heavily on Japanese and Classical Chinese. They are like mount Olympus - but that one on Mars! :o :D I've promoted Latin and Hebrew to "In use" category but the next step is to improve my Latin enough for active use. I already have an idea of Renaissance-inspired blog but to reach this level I want to go through Adler's grammar first and maybe though some other textbooks. Unlike many Renaissance humanists though I personally find the style of Augustine much more appealing than Cicero's, so my other goal is to start reading his Opera omnia.

Now, modern European languages. I would like to finish «Grammatica in contesto» and read more in Italian but I do not really expect to put much into it considering other priorities. As for German, I've invested a lot last year into Goldlisting and it it a really good exercise but, realistically, I just can't budget any time for this, so instead I am going to just jump into reading of Ulrick Unger's mammoth Classical Chinese grammar book (1400+ pages). It is probably going to be a slow-going but it is fine considering it is not a light novel fiction, far from it :).

So, here it is. I wish all of us to continue improving our current and discover new languages in 2022!
11 x

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verdastelo
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Languages: Punjabi (N), Hindi-Urdu (near-native), English (C1+), Russian (B1+), French (A2+), Chinese (A1+), Kannada (A0+)
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Re: 2021 in Review

Postby verdastelo » Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:18 am

Ezra wrote:Another year has passed. In general, it was quite good but let's look at the stats.

Latin: 270 h
Hebrew: 104 h
Classical Chinese: 141 h, 1183 → 1815 characters
Japanese: 82 h, 1900 words
German: 124 h
Italian: 85 h

Total: 806+ h


Commendable. Congratulations!


Ezra wrote: The last one [Japanese] is a very good language to learn in conjunction with Classical Chinese, much better than Mandarin imo...... I just can't budget any time for this, so instead I am going to just jump into reading of Ulrick Unger's mammoth Classical Chinese grammar book (1400+ pages).


I want to unread your post. I have already convinced myself that Russian is a great language to learn in conjunction with Classical Chinese and I don't have to learn German first to learn Classical Chinese grammar. One of the first books I purchased on landing in Russia was the three-volume Курс древнекитайского языка (A Course of Classical Chinese).

Image

My wife has put a six-month ban on purchasing books. When the ban is over in May or June this year, I will enroll myself in Neon.University's Вэньянь: Основы древнекитайского языка Часть 1 (Wenyan: The Foundations of Classical Chinese Part 1). The entire course consists of four parts. The other three are Вэньянь: Основы древнекитайского языка Часть 2 (Wenyan: The Foundations of Classical Chinese Part 2), Вэньянь: Основы древнекитайского языка Часть 3 (Wenyan: The Foundations of Classical Chinese Part 3), and Древнекитайский язык: анекдотические нарративы. Neither the Neon.University's course nor Ханмун. Вводный курс 漢文入門 (Hanmun: An Introductory Course 漢文入門) presuppose a knowledge of Mandarin. The latter book has an answer key in the end, so it's ideal for self-study.

Then there is Nikitina's two-volume Грамматика древнекитайских текстов (A Grammar of the Classical Chinese Texts). I fell in love with the book. She identifies 10 structures and builds on that. Her methodology assures me that I will not miss Ulrich Unger. Here's an illustration:

Image

I'll start chipping away at both Mandarin and Classical Chinese this year. I really want to learn German, Japanese, and Korean but I cannot afford to. You have only 24 hours in a day. Thankfully English, Russian, and French offer tons of translations from Classical Chinese to keep you busy. You can find many Russian translations on Востлит, Chine ancienne hosts French translations and for English translations you can consult Ctext.

Finally, this series of 16 lectures on Sinology (French Sinology, North American Sinology, Russian Sinology, German Sinology, Chinese Sinology, etc) is really informative. You can learn much about Sinology while practicing Russian.

6 x
The life of man is but a succession of vain hopes and groundless fears. — Monte(s)quieu


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