My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

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Skynet
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Re: My 10 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:14 pm

iguanamon wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:...I have completed a plethora of French courses, perhaps more than anyone else here...


Wow, PM may have a competitor (It's an inside joke). Welcome to the forum, Skynet, Bonne Chance !


To be honest, when I saw his thread prior to my joining the forum, I thought to myself, "I am pretty sure that he's passed the C2 level by now and is likely on his way to becoming a Jedi Knight too." How is anyone able to navigate something with 1277 comments? :?: :?: :?:

I read the 1st and last pages and fled for my life. (After all, English is my new worst enemy, so being inundated with it was not on the cards today ;) .)

Thanks for the hospitality, iguanamon! I have actually been haunting the old HTLAL site and observing this one from the shadows for a fortnight, so I had always wondered who "PM" was. Thanks for showing me that it is Mollenburg because my apparition was particularly fond of his HTLAL posts. :lol:
Last edited by Skynet on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: My 10 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:15 pm

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Last edited by Skynet on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Lawyer&Mom
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Re: My 10 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:18 pm

I highly recommend watching or listening to French News. Factual information is absolutely easier to follow. I listen to Le Journal en Francais Facile, which is a great 10 minute news podcast. TV news is also great because of all the visual clues. But I would encourage you to start consuming news now, instead of waiting until after all the courses. You will understand more than you think, and it is a great complement to the coursework.
4 x
Grammaire progressive du français -
niveau debutant
: 60 / 60

Grammaire progressive du francais -
intermédiaire
: 25 / 52

Pimsleur French 1-5
: 3 / 5

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: My 10 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:58 am

iguanamon wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:...I have completed a plethora of French courses, perhaps more than anyone else here...


Wow, PM may have a competitor (It's an inside joke). Welcome to the forum, Skynet, Bonne Chance !


Well thing is, I am human, skynet is not? :? I believe society is going backwards, in large part due to technology (or humans being brainwashed into using technology), skynet is the enemy! I must destroy skynet in a war, but not between humans and machines, but French courses vs French courses, as it’s the only highly logical solution!!! :lol:

Skynet wrote:
iguanamon wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:...I have completed a plethora of French courses, perhaps more than anyone else here...


Wow, PM may have a competitor (It's an inside joke). Welcome to the forum, Skynet, Bonne Chance !


To be honest, when I saw his thread prior to my joining the forum, I thought to myself, "I am pretty sure that he's passed the C2 level by now and is likely on his way to becoming a Jedi Knight too."

Thanks for the hospitality, iguanamon! I have actually been haunting the old HTLAL site and observing this one from the shadows for a fortnight, so I had always wondered who "PM" was. Thanks for showing me that it is Mollenburg because my apparition was particularly fond of his HTLAL posts. :lol:


I may have done a lot of courses, but I also gave in to two tendencies- perfectionism and my love of courses, both cost a lot of time. Right now, I am not C2, but that’s my opinion. I’ve been far from a perfect student and have floundered a lot!!

As for your mission skynet... good luck! You must become robotic, that is, let nothing distract you, as it’s one hell of a lot of work, but at least your memory is super-strong, photographic in fact... kinda like a machine, or a robot’s memory perhaps, or a computer’s? Hmmm ;)
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Re: My 10 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:28 am

Feedback after DAY 5:

DISCLAIMER: I AM ATTEMPTING FRENCH NECROMANCY RESURRECTION, AND AM NOT LEARNING THE LANGUAGE FROM NOTHING. CONSEQUENTLY, MY ANALYSIS WILL BE VASTLY DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF SOMEONE WHO IS STARTING FRENCH FOR THE FIRST TIME.

I am quitting Oxford Take Off in French (2000) because I really have been unable to tell whether I was learning English or French! There is just far too much English being used. Long English soliloquies in the audio? I am quite able to read the excessive English in the textbook, thank-you very much! I am immensely disappointed. :!: :!: :!:

On the diametrically opposite end of the language self-learning resource scale are Cortina (1954) and Linguaphone (1950). It is a pity that Linguaphone watered down its product because the chasm between the quality and content of the 1950 ed and the 1971 ed is immense. Cortina, which I had heard very little about going into this project, has again cemented my long-held belief that the quality of educational materials has degraded immensely over time. I am stunned that I don't see more positive reviews about the course! Some of the vocabulary is anachronistic, which is expected, but it is worth it! WARNING: Cortina (1954) is not ideal for someone who is starting the language with no prior knowledge of it.

Assimil FWOT and NFWE are still currently painfully slow, and I can tell instantly that these are truly designed for beginners at A0. Hopefully it gets better soon :) I have read claims that Linguaphone courses (any year) have steeper learning curve than Asismil FWOT/NFEW. I have to say that I agree entirely! Even the much vaunted FWOT is nowhere near as steep as Linguaphone (1950), however, it is logical since FWOT has 140 lessons, whilst Linguaphone (1950) has 50 lessons.

Hugo (1987) is much better than Teach Yourself French (2003), I was tempted to put TYF's head on the block, but I am refraining myself since the audio is better than that of Oxford's TOIF. FSI French Phonology is extremely dry and tedious, but I will take the bullet in the name of improving my pronunciation. DLI French Basic has been very good too! Those drills actually work, and you're being drilled with lingo that is relevant to everyday life.

I find Living Language Ultimate: Beginner - Intermediate (2000) to be a good balance between Assimil and grammar book.

Progress report:

Smooth sailing thus far :) Assimil has been slower than expected, so I was doing 3 lessons each of FWOT and NFWE daily (instead of the initially planned-for 2). Similarly, I have been doing 3 lessons of Hugo (instead of 2) and 2 of Living Language (instead of 1). When it becomes burdensome, I will slow down to the originally-intended pace. Let me reiterate that I will no longer be subjected to any further English instruction with Oxford Take Off In French :lol:

I will be back with another update next week.
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Re: My 10 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:07 pm

Great update!

I love it that you’ve ditched Oxford Take Off in French. I’ve never heard of the course, but as time persists, I have less and less time for crap courses with too little of an incline with regards to learning curves, or courses full if flowery English. Great job culling it! Ironically, I began to get fed up with rather recent Living Language French courses and felt they were garbage for any serious learner and only meant for the language learner who gets serious for two days in their life and gives up, but they weren’t the ‘Ultimate’ series. Perhaps it’s yet another case of earlier material being more thorough.

Interesting you are another person finding that the older courses are more worthy of a serious language learner’s attention. What the **** is going on here? Is there a conspiracy that the vast majority of educational material for language learners must be dumbed down? Or is it yet another victim of the globalised world in which absolutely nothing matters anymore but the profit margins? Are there any language learning materials out there actually improving, and not those with attractive bells and whilstles or gadgety appy buttons with interactive feedback, but those in which the quality of the lessons and the brain power and stamina required to complete such a course are beyond ‘hi my name is’, ‘I would like to buy a baguette’?

Where is another FIA, FSI, Linguaphone, Living Language Ultimate, Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Françaises in this decade, or even century?

No need to respond, the above is practically rhetorical (or not if anyone really wants to reply). Keep up the momentum!
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Skynet
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Re: My 10 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:57 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:Great update!

SKYNET: Thanks, Peter!

PM: I love it that you’ve ditched Oxford Take Off in French. I’ve never heard of the course, but as time persists, I have less and less time for crap courses with too little of an incline with regards to learning curves, or courses full if flowery English. Great job culling it!

SKYNET: You didn't hear about it because it truly is garbage. Coming from someone who went through the British-based education system, I just assumed that material published by a reputable publishing house would be good. Boy, was I wrong! A complete waste of time! Whilst I did set myself a lofty target with all of those courses, I am not incorrigible and will purge any course that does not add value to my language goal.

PM: Ironically, I began to get fed up with rather recent Living Language French courses and felt they were garbage for any serious learner and only meant for the language learner who gets serious for two days in their life and gives up, but they weren’t the ‘Ultimate’ series. Perhaps it’s yet another case of earlier material being more thorough.

SKYNET: LL Ultimate is the only thing from this millennium that I would recommend you to go through. However, since you're working towards a C-level exam, I honestly think that you would be hard-pressed to find anything worthy of your advanced level. Cours de langue et de civilisation francaises might be a noteworthy exception though. I have only glossed over it, so my recommendation is not to be taken with anything other than a shovel of salt. I have it, but was never able to find the 3rd book's accompanying audio. In any case, I plan to start the course on my 27th birthday, 1 Oct 2018.

PM: Interesting you are another person finding that the older courses are more worthy of a serious language learner’s attention. What the **** is going on here? Is there a conspiracy that the vast majority of educational material for language learners must be dumbed down? Or is it yet another victim of the globalised world in which absolutely nothing matters anymore but the profit margins? Are there any language learning materials out there actually improving, and not those with attractive bells and whilstles or gadgety appy buttons with interactive feedback, but those in which the quality of the lessons and the brain power and stamina required to complete such a course are beyond ‘hi my name is’, ‘I would like to buy a baguette’?

SKYNET: This is a worrying trend amongst all educational resources and is not merely confined to language-learning material. I have compared 1st and 10th editions of books that I use in university: whilst the latter editions would be updated to show changes in knowledge, the way in which information is conveyed has deteriorated considerably across editions. One would think that there is a concerted effort (read: conspiracy) by the publishers to provide ever-increasingly vacuous methods of instruction. The advent of smartphones has only exacerbated this as more media becomes vapid. I do not know how we can arrest this downward trajectory.

PM: Where is another FIA, FSI, Linguaphone, Living Language Ultimate, Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Francaises in this decade, or even century?

SKYNET: CdLCF is a masterpiece and I cannot wait to plow into it on my birthday. I am really looking forward to starting that! If they make "revised editions" of the courses you mentioned, they will ruin them in their misguided attempt to make them "better." They (Penguin Random House) should leave LLU alone, because it is the only good course that has been made this century for English speakers. I hope that I will not be left disillusioned after starting French-native material made by CLE, Didier (which apparently makes courses up to the C2 level), Hachette, etc.

PM: No need to respond, the above is practically rhetorical (or not if anyone really wants to reply). Keep up the momentum!

SKYNET: It is impossible not to respond on the declining quality of language courses. :lol: Thanks, you're someone who keeps me very motivated because you're the undisputed course-king on this forum.
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Re: My 10 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:45 pm

Lawyer&Mom wrote:I highly recommend watching or listening to French News. Factual information is absolutely easier to follow. I listen to Le Journal en Francais Facile, which is a great 10 minute news podcast. TV news is also great because of all the visual clues. But I would encourage you to start consuming news now, instead of waiting until after all the courses. You will understand more than you think, and it is a great complement to the coursework.



@Lawyer&Mom, thank-you so much for recommending Le Journal en Francais Facile! It is extremely worthwhile, and I always listen to it (and then write what I am hearing, then compare what I would have written with the transcript) just before I cycle to the ocean for my nightly swim. In just a week, my comprehension has improved by leaps and bounds! Please feel free to share more advice with me! I am looking forward to hearing from you soon! :D
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My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:06 pm

I am :x in high dudgeon :x after finding out that the summer break has been shortened by an entire week. This means that my "10-week project" has been reduced to a "9-week project." In any case, I will do whatever is possible to complete what I can during that time. I am going to have to adjust my courses.

ORIGINAL PLAN FROM 18.07.2018

I will be doing the following on a daily basis:

2 x Assimil FWOT lessons (140 lessons to be done in 70 days)
2 x Assimil NFWE lessons (113 lessons to be done in 57 days)
1 x Linguaphone (1950)* (50 lessons to be done in 50 days)
1 x Linguaphone (1971)* (30 lessons to be done in 30 days)
1 x Living Language Ultimate: Beginner - Intermediate (2000)* (40 lessons to be done in 40 days)
1 x Cortina Conversational French in 20 Lessons (1954)* (20 lessons to be done in 20 days)
2 x DLI French Basic (85 lessons to be done in 43 days)
2 x Hugo French In 3 Months (1987)* (90 lessons to be done in 45 days)
1 x FSI French Phonology* (20 lessons to be done in 20 days)
1 x Teach Yourself French (2003)* (25 units to be done in 25 days)
1 x Oxford: Take Off In French (2000)* (14 units to be done in 14 days)

Please note that once the programs with the asterisk are completed, I will proceed with the following:
(ie, whatever course gets finished is replaced by something on this list immediately. I will not be revising anything).

1. DLI French Basic moved up to "initial" course list.
2. FSI Metro Fast
3. FSI Belgium
4. French In Action
5. Colloquial French 1 & 2
6. Practice & Improve: French
7. Immersion French Deluxe
8. Immersion Plus
9. added Fluent French

REVISED PLAN ON 25.07.2018

2 x Assimil FWOT lessons (140 lessons to be done in 70 days)
2 x Assimil NFWE lessons (113 lessons to be done in 57 days)
1 x Linguaphone (1950)* (50 lessons to be done in 50 days)
1 x Linguaphone (1971)* (30 lessons to be done in 30 days)
1 x Living Language Ultimate: Beginner - Intermediate (2000)* (40 lessons to be done in 40 days)
1 x Cortina Conversational French in 20 Lessons (1954)* (20 lessons to be done in 20 days)
2 x DLI French Basic (85 lessons to be done in 43 days)
2 x Hugo French In 3 Months (1987)* (90 lessons to be done in 45 days)
1 x FSI French Phonology* (20 lessons to be done in 20 days)
1 x Teach Yourself French (2003)* (25 units to be done in 25 days) DISCARDED: NOT AS GOOD AS HUGO!
1 x Oxford: Take Off In French (2000)* (14 units to be done in 14 days) DISCARDED: TOO MUCH ENGLISH!

Please note that once the programs with the asterisk are completed, I will proceed with the following:
(ie, whatever course gets finished is replaced by something on this list immediately. I will not be revising anything).

1. DLI French Basic moved up to "initial" course list.
2. FSI Metro Fast
3. FSI BelgiumDISCARDED 27.07.18: THIS IS A GLORIFIED PHRASE BOOK
4. French In Action [highlight=]I don't have accompanying transcripts for the videos! HELP![/highlight]
5. Colloquial French 1 & 2
6. Practice & Improve: French
7. Immersion French Deluxe
8. Immersion Plus
9. Fluent French
Last edited by Skynet on Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:06 am

I would advise ditching FSI’s Headstart for Belgium. It’s quite a basic course, and the few words you will gain from completing it you’ll be wasting 95% or more of your time given your other resources, which includes a lot of thorough material.

I have completed Colliquial French, and slightly surprised you’re scrapping it. I found it worthwhile and from a leaf through of Colloquial French 2, I think it’s also worthwhile. However time is limited, so you must cull some resources, and as mentioned, you already have a number of lengthy and thorough resources.

As for FIA “transcripts”, all this is in the textbooks. Do you have them? Do you have the workbooks and audio material as well? The bulk of the course material, work, and details are contained within these non-video components. I’ve not read all your log, so you may have mentioned already what you have. If you are lacking all these components, unless they are easily attainable and you are convinced you’ll have the time to devote to FIA amongst everything else you’re working on, I’d take it as a blessing in disguise and ditch the course to grant you some wiggle room in an overflowing schedule. Perhaps on your next French mission you could do French in Action, Colloquial French 1 & 2, Mauger’s Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Française and a series of CLE such as Grammaire Progressive du Français. Ooops, sorry (not really) if I incite some distractions there! ;)

Btw, I’ve never used Linguaphone, and it sounds great from snippets I’ve heard around these parts and elsewhere. How are you finding it and the different versions? Was it easy enough to obtain the two versions? Is the audio on vinyl? Would you recommend either version? (don’t rush to answer, time is precious! I can even wait 9 weeks, honestly).

Bon courage!

Edit: I have heard on more than one occasion (I think forum member garyb might’ve been the last to state as such) that FSI French Phonology is not a great course. If you feel you need a course in French phonetics, I do hear that CLE’s Phonétique Progressive du Français (more than one book) are very good. Forum member Ani has used this, if you would like to seek some feedback on it.

2nd edit: I hope you don’t feel pressured in any way with my suggestions, there just observations from my experience, which is of course a subjective experience, so in terms of any suggestions, feel free to take them or leave them!
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