My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

[Lawyer&Mom]

FIA is a beast of a course if you do all the components. *Very* well done, but it wouldn’t be something to do alongside a bunch of other courses. It would be the main attraction. If you just have the videos, I would just watch them. No transcript needed. Watch and move on. Video isn’t nearly as precious as it used to be, with so much content available now you can afford not to wring every drop of knowledge out of this content. You have the transcripts for Le Journal en Francais Facile. Use that for your intensive listening, and use FIA for extensive listening.

[Skynet]

FIA is a beast of a course if you do all the components. *Very* well done, but it wouldn’t be something to do alongside a bunch of other courses. It would be the main attraction. If you just have the videos, I would just watch them. No transcript needed. Watch and move on. Video isn’t nearly as precious as it used to be, with so much content available now you can afford not to wring every drop of knowledge out of this content. You have the transcripts for Le Journal en Francais Facile. Use that for your intensive listening, and use FIA for extensive listening.

Lawyer&Mom, you should actually be called SuperHelpfulMom because you have been extremely helpful with your suggestions. In all honesty, I wanted to watch FIA video so that I could also learn the accompanying gestures that the French use when talking. I have an Italian friend, who learnt English using courses, who flails his arms about A LOT when talking. Suffice it to say, he is the butt of many jokes. Perhaps I am being highly pernickety, but I always think that it is wise to learn the body language that accompanies the verbal language.

I will take head of your advice and just watch the videos without worrying too much about reading and understanding every single thing. Thank-you again!

[Skynet]

I would advise ditching FSI’s Headstart for Belgium. It’s quite a basic course, and the few words you will gain from completing it you’ll be wasting 95% or more of your time given your other resources, which includes a lot of thorough material.

SKYNET: I wanted to work on acquiring a good ear for accents. I am told that Belgian and Parisian French accents are extremely different (with Swiss French being even more different). I am more interested in learning the accent, than I am in picking up specific Belgian/Swiss/sub-Saharan African vocab or grammar based on differing dialects. In my next French phase, I will also learn the various sub-Sahara African accents too.

I have completed Colliquial French, and slightly surprised you’re scrapping it. I found it worthwhile and from a leaf through of Colloquial French 2, I think it’s also worthwhile. However time is limited, so you must cull some resources, and as mentioned, you already have a number of lengthy and thorough resources.

I will do CF if I still have time. If not, I will simply do it in my next French studying phase.

As for FIA “transcripts”, all this is in the textbooks. Do you have them? Do you have the workbooks and audio material as well? The bulk of the course material, work, and details are contained within these non-video components. I’ve not read all your log, so you may have mentioned already what you have. If you are lacking all these components, unless they are easily attainable and you are convinced you’ll have the time to devote to FIA amongst everything else you’re working on, I’d take it as a blessing in disguise and ditch the course to grant you some wiggle room in an overflowing schedule. Perhaps on your next French mission you could do French in Action, Colloquial French 1 & 2, Mauger’s Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Française and a series of CLE such as Grammaire Progressive du Français. Ooops, sorry (not really) if I incite some distractions there!

I only have FIA videos with no accompanying books. I also have all of your recommended courses (to be started in my next phase) but do not have an accompanying book for CLE Phonetique PdF (I just have audios) and do not have the associated files for the 3rd Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Française (does it even come with audio, or is it assumed by Hachette that one would have become a transcendent French being who no longer needs accompanying audio by the time one reaches the 3rd book?)

Btw, I’ve never used Linguaphone, and it sounds great from snippets I’ve heard around these parts and elsewhere. How are you finding it and the different versions? Was it easy enough to obtain the two versions? Is the audio on vinyl? Would you recommend either version? (don’t rush to answer, time is precious! I can even wait 9 weeks, honestly).

Linguaphone 1950 and even 1971 are currently better than even Assimil. Obviously, this is because the LP courses are much shorter (50 and 30 vs 140 (FWOT) and 113 (NFWE)) and are thus more intellectually stimulating because they offer a steeper learning curve. As an absolute beginner, I would suggest Assimil, and then recommend someone to go through LP when one is halfway through Assimil. I was able to find both editions in the library, so I paid zero euros for them! Someone had painstakingly converted the LP 1950 & 1971 vinyl to lossless FLAC format. I would recommend the older, LP 1950 version because it was not designed to have a succeeding advanced course. The subsequent courses, 1971 to whatever garbage is being sold online today, have beginner/intermediate and advanced courses. IE, LP1950 was a complete course, whilst the more contemporary editions are incomplete, shorter and absolutely dumbed-down to extract every last British sterling out of you. LP is from the UK.

Bon courage!

THANKS!

Edit: I have heard on more than one occasion (I think forum member garyb might’ve been the last to state as such) that FSI French Phonology is not a great course. If you feel you need a course in French phonetics, I do hear that CLE’s Phonétique Progressive du Français (more than one book) are very good. Forum member Ani has used this, if you would like to seek some feedback on it.

I have PPdF audios, but not a single book. The library used to have the books, but someone lost them! FSI French Phonology is EXTREMELY TEDIOUS but for the first time in history, I am now able to distinguish the accents of the various forms of the vowel "e" in French without relying on my memory (which I would deploy whenever I would write what I would hear.) For example, I remember how to spell "eleve" (sorry, I don't have a French keyboard, so cannot add accents) from high school, but could not hear the difference between the 1st and 2nd "e" (obviously, the 3rd "e" is mute.) FSI Phonology has helped me understand them, which helps tremendously in writing a language with high orthographic depth. I have found it to be very useful, although the PPdF by CLE would be obviously better if I had the accompanying book(s).

2nd edit: I hope you don’t feel pressured in any way with my suggestions, there just observations from my experience, which is of course a subjective experience, so in terms of any suggestions, feel free to take them or leave them!

Off course not! However, I do take as much advice as possible from people who have done the courses that they suggest, and those who are much further down the language-learning path that I am. Thank-you again, PM!

[Ani]

[b]SKYNET: I wanted to work on acquiring a good ear for accents. I am told that Belgian and Parisian French accents are extremely different (with Swiss French being even more different).

No no this is not true. Swiss French accent is considered standard French, and you primarily notice very slight differences in vocabulary -- septant, octant. Certain areas are slightly affected by German and you might hear a tiny German influence but that doesn't apply to all parts of Switzerland.
I think there are a few accents in Belgium due to regional & bilingual influence, but if you are considering their media -- movies, TV, etc. You won't find much of an difference from standard French pronunciation.
Only Canadian French accent would be considered "extremely different".

[Cavesa]

[b]SKYNET: I wanted to work on acquiring a good ear for accents. I am told that Belgian and Parisian French accents are extremely different (with Swiss French being even more different).

No no this is not true. Swiss French accent is considered standard French, and you primarily notice very slight differences in vocabulary -- septant, octant. Certain areas are slightly affected by German and you might hear a tiny German influence but that doesn't apply to all parts of Switzerland.
I think there are a few accents in Belgium due to regional & bilingual influence, but if you are considering their media -- movies, TV, etc. You won't find much of an difference from standard French pronunciation.
Only Canadian French accent would be considered "extremely different".

I agree with Ani here. If you can understand a random French movie or tv series, you'll be ok with any French native from Europe.
Sure, except for certain speech impediments, people with voice troubles, perhaps some very old people, or the very few which still stick to one of the more distinct regional versions of French (unlike in Spain, the differences in France and the other francophone european countries seem to be rapidly diminishing with the younger generations, they are not cherished).

I would say French in Europe is a rather homogenous language nowadays, for example compared to Spanish or Italian or even English. The differences are small and you don't need to actively use several variants of the same thing.

The canadians are a totally different beast though! At first, they sounded to me like non native speakers, originally English natives . Well, it is not so, and I suggest caution before you guess someone's native language out loud They are harder to get used to, as there is less content to listen to. There is some, for example Hero Corp is an awesome example of the differences (and they are one of the humorous elements there). But even when there are Quebec French dubbings separate from european French dubbings for some american stuff, they sound rather normal and european to me. Much more than the real natives.

There are some resources on Quebec French, one course was even written by a forum member. If you are interested in it, there are surely some ways to focus on this dialect (it is not just about the accent, but also some vocabulary, perhaps some grammar too). But if you are not, you don't need to worry much. I've never focused on it much and I can understand the natives just fine, it is just a bit more tiring.

But there is one continent that wasn't mentioned. Africa! I am not surprised, even some French linguists forget about the millions of natives from there. To them, their version of French is no dialect or accent, it is just "normal" French with mistakes. It is sad but I've read it is still true. Unfortunately, there are even fewer resources than on the Quebec French. Songs seem to be the most plentiful resource, I'd say. How understandable are the African French variants to someone used to the standard french French? That is hard to tell, I have no clue how many there are, but I am pretty sure there will be significant differences among them, especially as so many people in the francophone african countries are bilingual, trilingual, or even morelingual. They are bound to have mixed the languages a bit over the centuries. The French natives from african countries I've met were in general very easy to understand but all of them had immigrated to France a few years before I met them, so I can't tell whether I was truly listening to their native accent and dialect.
..........................................

Btw, I think I have only been reading your log without any comment so far. I love your nickname and your log looks great!
I wish you the best!

[Cavesa]

Feedback after DAY 5:

DISCLAIMER: I AM ATTEMPTING FRENCH NECROMANCY RESURRECTION, AND AM NOT LEARNING THE LANGUAGE FROM NOTHING. CONSEQUENTLY, MY ANALYSIS WILL BE VASTLY DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF SOMEONE WHO IS STARTING FRENCH FOR THE FIRST TIME.

I am quitting Oxford Take Off in French (2000) because I really have been unable to tell whether I was learning English or French! There is just far too much English being used. Long English soliloquies in the audio? I am quite able to read the excessive English in the textbook, thank-you very much! I am immensely disappointed.
...
Assimil FWOT and NFWE are still currently painfully slow, and I can tell instantly that these are truly designed for beginners at A0. Hopefully it gets better soon I have read claims that Linguaphone courses (any year) have steeper learning curve than Asismil FWOT/NFEW. I have to say that I agree entirely! Even the much vaunted FWOT is nowhere near as steep as Linguaphone (1950), however, it is logical since FWOT has 140 lessons, whilst Linguaphone (1950) has 50 lessons.

Hugo (1987) is much better than Teach Yourself French (2003), I was tempted to put TYF's head on the block, but I am refraining myself since the audio is better than that of Oxford's TOIF. FSI French Phonology is extremely dry and tedious, but I will take the bullet in the name of improving my pronunciation. DLI French Basic has been very good too! Those drills actually work, and you're being drilled with lingo that is relevant to everyday life.

I find Living Language Ultimate: Beginner - Intermediate (2000) to be a good balance between Assimil and grammar book.

If you don't mind me asking:
Why are you using only bilingual sources?
-you are not starting from zero, and you find the bilingual resources for beginners "painfully slow"
-you say you mind too much English in your resources
-most of the best French resources I've ever seen are monolingual
-a lot of your courses are very similar to each other
-when it comes to the monolingual resources, it is not true that everything new is not serious and good enough

[Skynet]

SKYNET: I wanted to work on acquiring a good ear for accents. I am told that Belgian and Parisian French accents are extremely different (with Swiss French being even more different).

No no this is not true. Swiss French accent is considered standard French, and you primarily notice very slight differences in vocabulary -- septant, octant. Certain areas are slightly affected by German and you might hear a tiny German influence but that doesn't apply to all parts of Switzerland. I think there are a few accents in Belgium due to regional & bilingual influence, but if you are considering their media -- movies, TV, etc. You won't find much of an difference from standard French pronunciation.
Only Canadian French accent would be considered "extremely different".

Dear Ani,

Thank-you for setting the record straight concerning the inexistent differences among Romandy, Parisian and Walloonian French accents. Indeed, I have heard that there is a vast chasm between French and whatever ghastly pidgin those Canadian imposters claim to speak However, it cannot be nearly as bad as the vile aberration of the English language that Australians speak *cough* goading PM with a stick *cough*

[Skynet]

[b]SKYNET: I wanted to work on acquiring a good ear for accents. I am told that Belgian and Parisian French accents are extremely different (with Swiss French being even more different).

No no this is not true. Swiss French accent is considered standard French, and you primarily notice very slight differences in vocabulary -- septant, octant. Certain areas are slightly affected by German and you might hear a tiny German influence but that doesn't apply to all parts of Switzerland.
I think there are a few accents in Belgium due to regional & bilingual influence, but if you are considering their media -- movies, TV, etc. You won't find much of an difference from standard French pronunciation.
Only Canadian French accent would be considered "extremely different".

I agree with Ani here. If you can understand a random French movie or tv series, you'll be ok with any French native from Europe.
Sure, except for certain speech impediments, people with voice troubles, perhaps some very old people, or the very few which still stick to one of the more distinct regional versions of French (unlike in Spain, the differences in France and the other francophone european countries seem to be rapidly diminishing with the younger generations, they are not cherished).

I would say French in Europe is a rather homogenous language nowadays, for example compared to Spanish or Italian or even English. The differences are small and you don't need to actively use several variants of the same thing.

The canadians are a totally different beast though! At first, they sounded to me like non native speakers, originally English natives . Well, it is not so, and I suggest caution before you guess someone's native language out loud They are harder to get used to, as there is less content to listen to. There is some, for example Hero Corp is an awesome example of the differences (and they are one of the humorous elements there). But even when there are Quebec French dubbings separate from european French dubbings for some american stuff, they sound rather normal and european to me. Much more than the real natives.

There are some resources on Quebec French, one course was even written by a forum member. If you are interested in it, there are surely some ways to focus on this dialect (it is not just about the accent, but also some vocabulary, perhaps some grammar too). But if you are not, you don't need to worry much. I've never focused on it much and I can understand the natives just fine, it is just a bit more tiring.

But there is one continent that wasn't mentioned. Africa! I am not surprised, even some French linguists forget about the millions of natives from there. To them, their version of French is no dialect or accent, it is just "normal" French with mistakes. It is sad but I've read it is still true. Unfortunately, there are even fewer resources than on the Quebec French. Songs seem to be the most plentiful resource, I'd say. How understandable are the African French variants to someone used to the standard french French? That is hard to tell, I have no clue how many there are, but I am pretty sure there will be significant differences among them, especially as so many people in the francophone african countries are bilingual, trilingual, or even morelingual. They are bound to have mixed the languages a bit over the centuries. The French natives from african countries I've met were in general very easy to understand but all of them had immigrated to France a few years before I met them, so I can't tell whether I was truly listening to their native accent and dialect.
..........................................

Btw, I think I have only been reading your log without any comment so far. I love your nickname and your log looks great!
I wish you the best!

Hey Cavesa,

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/frenc ... the-world/

MOST people who speak French are from Africa (sub-Saharan Africa + Maghreb (North Africa)). It never ceases to amaze me how very few people ever mention these African accents. Fortunately, the most popular news outlet for African French is Jeune Afrique (http://www.jeuneafrique.com/).

Mastering the accent from Montreal is something I will reward myself after passing the DELF B2 Pro. Come to think of it, Canada also has Acadian French, which I am pretty sure is written using the Cuneiform script (just like Akkadian ) (Thinking out aloud: I hope my relentless sarcasm will not warrant a ban/warning.)

As for the homogeneity of French, that is a true blessing because I will need to seriously roll up my sleeves when I embark on German, and master the vast array of regional accents they have.

[Skynet]

UPDATE:

Everything thus far has been going very well! I have stayed the course (pun intended!)

Yes, I lost invested five hours on the 27th watching the longest lunar eclipse/blood moon of the century AND Mars' perihelic opposition whilst being at the closest to Earth it has been since 2003.

Thanks to Lawyer&Mom's suggestion, RFI's Le Journal en Francais Facile has become my sole news outlet. It has not been easy giving up Bloomberg and Al Jazeera, but for the next 8 weeks, I will do whatever it takes to get to that B1/B2- level. I must admit that I could not stop smiling when I was able to infer (if I said "understood", I would be deceiving myself, since I simply do not know enough French at this point to understand a discussion on astronomy!) largely from cognates and active knowledge on the topic being reported, that they were discussing the celestial event. I must confess that those bulletins, which are supposedly in sloooooooooow French, are just too fast for me to even hear what words are being said (yet alone grasp what those unheard words mean!) Consequently, my attention gets severely strained. However, I am sure that with time and patience, I will make good progress.

Out of curiosity, how much faster is spoken-between-natives French than the auditory category 5 hurricane that is RFI's Le Journal en Francais Facile? Fortunately, there is a beam of hope: reading the transcripts is not a disaster, as I can understand the gist of what is written.

[Xmmm]

Indeed, I have heard that there is a vast chasm between French and whatever ghastly pidgin those Canadian imposters claim to speak

The French of Quebec is the French of kings, empires, revolutions, naval battles, and world influence. L'état, c'est moi (or as The Cult put it, "I'm a sun king, baby").

Vive le français québécois!