My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

[garyb]

I have done FSI Phonology, and am going to do their Metro FAST and Sub-Saharan African courses too. I am not going to do the FSI Basic course because it guarantees one thing: death by high tedium! FIA would be a better investment of my time, as it is a 1000x less soporific than FSI.

Sure, I wasn't saying you should do FSI, just that a course along similar lines to DLI was helpful to me in another language. I think the FSI Spanish course is of higher quality than the French one, which I've not worked through but from skimming it seemed a little dull with quite formal and old-fashioned language. Between DLI and your other resources you probably won't miss out on anything.

Great to hear that RFI is getting easier! Sounds like your listening will continue to improve with practice.

[Skynet]

I have done FSI Phonology, and am going to do their Metro FAST and Sub-Saharan African courses too. I am not going to do the FSI Basic course because it guarantees one thing: death by high tedium! FIA would be a better investment of my time, as it is a 1000x less soporific than FSI.

Sure, I wasn't saying you should do FSI, just that a course along similar lines to DLI was helpful to me in another language. I think the FSI Spanish course is of higher quality than the French one, which I've not worked through but from skimming it seemed a little dull with quite formal and old-fashioned language. Between DLI and your other resources you probably won't miss out on anything.

Great to hear that RFI is getting easier! Sounds like your listening will continue to improve with practice.

I wasn't saying you should do FSI

Of course you did not. I just brought it up since you mentioned FSI Spanish. I have heard raving reviews about that course, so I obtained it and will use it when I embark on my 2020 Spanish project. (2019 is C-level French + B2 German Zertifikat

it seemed a little dull with quite formal and old-fashioned language

This is the understatement of the century. I had always struggled with insomnia, but FSI French Basic cured me of it!

Great to hear that RFI is getting easier! Sounds like your listening will continue to improve with practice.

Thanks!!!

[Lawyer&Mom]

Le Journal is just a bit slower and a *lot* clearer. So don’t feel bad that it feels really fast. This is *not* “slow” French.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to spend some time with (near) native content in the beginning, especially as an English speaker learning French. There is so much overlap between the languages, it’s largely a matter of training your ear. The sooner you start with listening the better. You will surprise yourself with your progress.

Thanks (again) L&M,

I do see a daily improvement in my ability to hear, understand and decode RFI podcasts. However, I have since noticed that the transcripts do not have everything that is said. Sometimes, entire sentences are omitted from the transcripts. Have you also noticed this?

Confession: I have never once looked at an RFI transcript. I’m lazy. My method was to just listen day after day after day....

[Cavesa]

It often takes me time to reply, despite the fact I am spending too much time on this forum

You never did reply to my post! I am still waiting for your feedback!

Subject: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

If you don't mind me asking:
Why are you using only bilingual sources?
-you are not starting from zero, and you find the bilingual resources for beginners "painfully slow"
-you say you mind too much English in your resources
-most of the best French resources I've ever seen are monolingual
-a lot of your courses are very similar to each other
-when it comes to the monolingual resources, it is not true that everything new is not serious and good enough

Cavesa,

In all honesty, I do not mind answering any questions from people, especially those from certified C2 French sages like you!

To be honest, I am aware that I have 11-year old sedentary high school French in my memory. However, since I intend to get to the C2 level (and not merely plateau at DELF B2 Pro), I want to establish an extremely strong French foundation from which I can ascend the C-level mountain. I do not want to be hubristic and say, "Well, I have photographic memory, so I can teleport to the summit of C2 with no effort and having sole reliance on an inactive French foundation laid over a decade ago." I want the experience of learning a language: from getting blown away by an RFI Le Journal en Francais Facile F-5 tornado and realising that I have a feeling that I am NOT in Kansas anymore, to eating a bowl of chicken soup in a 42C (108F) Mediterranean heatwave to recover from a stubborn cold whilst not quitting, to applauding when I was able to transcribe what I heard from Cortina/NFEW/FWOT/Linguaphone 1950 & 1971/Living Language/DLI Basic courses. These trials and triumphs are what make anything worthwhile.

Another reason is that I was never able to find native French courses from Hachette/CLE/Didier for beginners/false-beginners. Everything that I found was above my paygrade for those at intermediate and advanced levels.

I am afraid that I would have to disagree with you: ALL contemporary revisions/editions of any series in any* language have become less complex (a euphemism for "dumbed-down"). I have seen this in English and Shona textbooks (made by natives for native speakers) and am confident that this is the case in all languages. I can say, with absolute temerity, that the Czech books that you read in junior school are significantly more complicated than the textbooks in use today. If you picked up the books they are reading today, you would split your sides with laughter.

DISCLAIMER: I would like to believe that outstanding educational systems like those from S. Korea, Japan, Singapore, Finland, Taiwan and Sweden will prove me wrong.

Thanks for your compliments

You're right that building a strong foundation is definitely worth it. However, I think there are more paths to it and the quantity is not always the most important factor. It can even slow you down, if you get stuck there. I have repeatedly fallen into this trap of trying to o too much and getting too bored and discouraged.

No, you are not correct that ALL the contemporary resources are less complex. It is unfortunately common but not that universal. Also, there are completely new courses that are not remakes of the old ones and still are rigorous and complex and definitely not dumbed down. Based on my observation, I would even dare to guess the French course publishers have finally turned around. I think I was learning at the worst time for the intermediate or advanced or just any serious learners of French. Nowadays, they are finally realising there is market for the efficient and serious stuff and also there are many people at the higher levels.

About the not language textbooks (native for native ones on various subjects): nope, the Czech ones are still the same ten or fifteen years later, our schools are too poor to get newer ones And actually, some of the new editions are better than the older ones, but that depends on the subject and book in question. Sure, schools are being dumbed down but books are not the primary reason or tool. Yes, the language books for kids are horrible these days, ours were less colourful but much more informative and logical. I know what are the kids learning from these days from my own family. What is really missing on our market, however, are high quality references appropriate for the secondary schools. The younger kids in primary schools have a lot of stuff their parents can choose from, the highschoolers also have a lot of stuff. The kids in between have too few types of books to choose from.

So, I don't think the dumbing down phenomenon is that present everywhere. When it comes to the French stuff for learners, I would have definitely agreed five years ago. But not now. I think judging everything just by the year of publication is not a reasonable approach.

[Skynet]

Le Journal is just a bit slower and a *lot* clearer. So don’t feel bad that it feels really fast. This is *not* “slow” French.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to spend some time with (near) native content in the beginning, especially as an English speaker learning French. There is so much overlap between the languages, it’s largely a matter of training your ear. The sooner you start with listening the better. You will surprise yourself with your progress.

Thanks (again) L&M,

I do see a daily improvement in my ability to hear, understand and decode RFI podcasts. However, I have since noticed that the transcripts do not have everything that is said. Sometimes, entire sentences are omitted from the transcripts. Have you also noticed this?

Confession: I have never once looked at an RFI transcript. I’m lazy. My method was to just listen day after day after day....

WOW! The first month(s) must have been utterly brutal if you did not have a transcript. Perhaps you did that because you were already at the intermediate stage?

[Skynet]

UPDATE:

As an aside (IGNORE if sci-fi is not your thing), the 4th of August is the day that Skynet goes online...

Both Assimil FWOT and NFWE are finally getting interesting. I am still doing three lessons of each per day, but I can see that I am learning more than I did before. Linguaphone 1950 and Cortina 1954 continue to be the two darlings in my race to B1/B2 French.

I have completed FSI Phonology. I cannot stress how helpful this course has been for my pronunciation and listening! I also cannot get over the fact that I am FINALLY able to distinguish the various "e" vowel sounds, which has been a boon for my writing skills. Colloquial French now replaces FSI Phonology.

[Skynet]

I would even dare to guess the French course publishers have finally turned around.

This is most encouraging news indeed! I have amassed quite a lot of French-native courses from CLE (vocabulaire, grammaire, communication, comprehension orale & phonetique progressif/progressive), Hachette (Cours de langue et de civilisation francaises) and Didier (Reussir le DELF B2, Conversations pratiques de l'oral) at both intermediate and advanced levels. I cannot wait to add these when I consume more and more native French media (read: radio and podcasts).

[Lawyer&Mom]

Le Journal is just a bit slower and a *lot* clearer. So don’t feel bad that it feels really fast. This is *not* “slow” French.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to spend some time with (near) native content in the beginning, especially as an English speaker learning French. There is so much overlap between the languages, it’s largely a matter of training your ear. The sooner you start with listening the better. You will surprise yourself with your progress.

Thanks (again) L&M,

I do see a daily improvement in my ability to hear, understand and decode RFI podcasts. However, I have since noticed that the transcripts do not have everything that is said. Sometimes, entire sentences are omitted from the transcripts. Have you also noticed this?

Confession: I have never once looked at an RFI transcript. I’m lazy. My method was to just listen day after day after day....

WOW! The first month(s) must have been utterly brutal if you did not have a transcript. Perhaps you did that because you were already at the intermediate stage?

It wasn’t brutal. I don’t think a native English speaker can ever really be a true beginner in French. Too much overlap. I also have a high tolerance for not understanding things. And it’s the news! You are going to recognize names and places and have *some* idea what they are talking about. “Some idea” is a fine starting place for me.

[Skynet]

UPDATE:

I had mentioned that I was plowing through my courses at a faster rate than had been planned. I am happy to confirm that I have completed Cortina 1954 and Linguaphone 1971. I am sad to be leaving Cortina , because it is truly, truly impressive! Linguaphone 1971 on the other hand, pales in comparison to Linguaphone 1950. Practice & Improve French and ImmersionPlus will replace Cortina and LP respectively.

[Skynet]

Le Journal is just a bit slower and a *lot* clearer. So don’t feel bad that it feels really fast. This is *not* “slow” French.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to spend some time with (near) native content in the beginning, especially as an English speaker learning French. There is so much overlap between the languages, it’s largely a matter of training your ear. The sooner you start with listening the better. You will surprise yourself with your progress.

Thanks (again) L&M,

I do see a daily improvement in my ability to hear, understand and decode RFI podcasts. However, I have since noticed that the transcripts do not have everything that is said. Sometimes, entire sentences are omitted from the transcripts. Have you also noticed this?

Confession: I have never once looked at an RFI transcript. I’m lazy. My method was to just listen day after day after day....

WOW! The first month(s) must have been utterly brutal if you did not have a transcript. Perhaps you did that because you were already at the intermediate stage?

It wasn’t brutal. I don’t think a native English speaker can ever really be a true beginner in French. Too much overlap. I also have a high tolerance for not understanding things. And it’s the news! You are going to recognize names and places and have *some* idea what they are talking about. “Some idea” is a fine starting place for me.

Hey L&M,

I have to agree with you that having a solid grasp of the English language is exceptionally helpful in French! Cognates are exceptionally useful with RFI and I can usually guess the meaning of the word correctly 99% of the time! Would German and Spanish exhibit the same level of similarity if one comes from an English base?