My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:15 pm

Give it a couple decades or longer and this will be considered straight out racism, some people are just ahead of the times. Let’s all be extremely sensitive and blame our emotions on others, that’s the future, right? But hey, like it or not we are all socially engineered, to the point that we even fight for it. But it’s ok, we’re all the exact same nowadays, right? Even men and women. We need to fight to get rid of that distinction!! Masculine and feminine forms be gone! Only English is fit for this global world without differences. Let’s all speak English, eat from the same fast food chains, drink factory grade fluoride, eat GMOs and wonder what’s causing cancer and how come the massive pharma companies can’t find a cure while they rake in dollars off the current treatments. Who’s gonna march with me for everyone being the same!
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:18 pm

rdearman wrote:Jokes can quickly get out of hand or misconstrued. We therefore have a rule.

Humour and sarcasm: Humour is generally welcome, but it shouldn't be used to attempt to circumvent the rules by claiming "I was only joking". This includes justifying discriminatory remarks but it's not limited to them.
Sarcastic remarks should be used very sparingly and with caution since they can be misconstrued and become inflammatory.


While I don't believe that there was any malicious intent let's please just drop it and move on.


Thanks, Admin. ;)
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby lavengro » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:02 am

Skynet wrote:.... I never study more than 4.5hrs consecutively without a break. I play chess and contract bridge, so I am accustomed to long periods of intense concentration. Anything above my limit results in a massive BSOD (blue screen of death) and I begin to feel drowsy. That said, I would love to hear what others say about optimum language study hours. ....

For myself, maximum effective concentration stretch is twenty minutes. Unless I see a squirrel at say the ten minute mark. In which case, ten minutes.
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:36 am

This still-outstanding question is open to all:

Skynet wrote:
Out of curiosity, how much faster :shock: is spoken-between-natives French than the :? auditory category 5 hurricane :o that is RFI's Le Journal en Francais Facile?
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:56 am

Skynet wrote:This still-outstanding question is open to all:

Skynet wrote:
Out of curiosity, how much faster :shock: is spoken-between-natives French than the :? auditory category 5 hurricane :o that is RFI's Le Journal en Francais Facile?


Ummm, a little faster maybe (10%) (but def. not always faster), but just less clear and more chaotic, mainly, is my take on it.
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby garyb » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:58 am

Skynet wrote:If I reduced my time dedicated to French, I would be forced to think/talk in my other languages. That is currently the enemy of progress.


I don't think that this is a realistic or productive mentality, especially not as a beginner. If you're studying for several hours per day, you're probably already maxing out the progress you can make, and time away from the language isn't going to take anything away. It takes time to really absorb new knowledge, and your mind will still be unconsciously processing the French outside of study time. There's something to be said for full-immersion or AJATT-style intensive semi-immersion when you're at a level when you can really benefit from uninterrupted exposure to the language, but you need to be understanding most of what you hear or read to get that benefit.

I totally understand your desire to make the most of this rare period with lots of free time, but it's perhaps sadly come at the wrong moment for you to benefit fully from it. That said though, maybe after a couple of weeks of intensive study easier material like news radio (or material for learners like French in Action, Extra, etc.) will become more comprehensible and you'll be able to exploit that for the remaining time. I don't think that kind of material is that much more difficult than course audio aside from wider vocabulary usage; maybe it's worth trying to identify your main obstacle to understanding it and putting work into that. Just the speed, or too much unknown vocabulary, or simple lack of practice at decoding speech? The transcripts should make it clearer whether the problem is with listening in itself or more general understanding of the language.

Some say that any exposure to the language is a good thing just for getting used to the sound and picking out anything you do understand: subtitled films, music, background radio, etc. even if you don't understand it well. Opinions on this are divided, and to be honest I don't know. Maybe worth a try in the meantime for the times when you can't manage any more "real" study but still have time to spare.

Most of this is just thoughts and ideas off the top of my head, so don't take it for gospel! As I said it'll take a bit of experimentation to find what works for you.

DLI was an unlikely course, but it succeeds in melting my brain everyday. These drills have already helped me make basic sentences with good pronunciation. Whilst the audio quality is questionable at best, you're forced to pay a greater level of attention, which in turn improves my listening skills. I will confess that DLI is extremely intellectually taxing because I really need to concentrate on the poor quality audio


In that case, I take back what I said and apologise for commenting on a course I've never used just based on an idea I had it! I had the impression that DLI was military-focused, but at the end of the day the basics are still the basics and it sounds like it's doing exactly what you need. I found FSI Spanish great for the same reasons.

Out of curiosity, how much faster :shock: is spoken-between-natives French than the :? auditory category 5 hurricane :o that is RFI's Le Journal en Francais Facile?


I did try to address this in my previous reply ("It's easier and clearer than most everyday conversation for sure") but I realise you asked specifically about speed. I've just had a listen now to the first couple of minutes of the latest episode. It's a little slower than "normal" news radio but not a whole lot, and in turn that's noticeably slower than most real conversation. I agree with PM although I'd say many colloquial conversations, especially between people who know each other well, can be well more than 10% faster but asking how fast conversations generally are is a bit like asking how long a piece of string is. I still struggle with these at times since I've not socialised lots in French, at least not in groups. Clarity is a much more important factor than speed though: fast and clear isn't much harder than slow and clear. News is very clearly enunciated (Français Facile even more so) while conversations generally aren't. Acted conversations in sitcoms etc. are somewhere in the middle, and of course there are lots of other factors like the particular people, their accents, and the situation.
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:58 pm

Le Journal is just a bit slower and a *lot* clearer. So don’t feel bad that it feels really fast. This is *not* “slow” French.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to spend some time with (near) native content in the beginning, especially as an English speaker learning French. There is so much overlap between the languages, it’s largely a matter of training your ear. The sooner you start with listening the better. You will surprise yourself with your progress.
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Skynet
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:42 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
Skynet wrote:This still-outstanding question is open to all:

Skynet wrote:
Out of curiosity, how much faster :shock: is spoken-between-natives French than the :? auditory category 5 hurricane :o that is RFI's Le Journal en Francais Facile?


Ummm, a little faster maybe (10%) (but def. not always faster), but just less clear and more chaotic, mainly, is my take on it.


Thanks PM,

WARNING: MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: FALLOUT FRENCH SPOILERS AHEAD


My friends showed up at my door late last night (at least they came after my language sessions were over!) and took me to watch MIF. Very well directed movie, with a predictable script. The highlights of my night were two scenes involving French: one in the men's bathroom and another with the French policewoman. I was able to understand those conversations! Of course they were slower than what I even hear on RFI, but so what? After just two weeks of studying, I am able to understand conversations in a movie! I was so happy that I have been bouncing off the walls ever since. My insanely-intensive French program is bearing fruit! Courses + RFI work!
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:56 am

GaryB,

At my current trajectory (which is slightly faster than originally planned), I intend to start FIA in a fortnight's time. I have already started RFI's podcast, although it has been very challenging, to say the least.

I don't think that this is a realistic or productive mentality, especially not as a beginner. If you're studying for several hours per day, you're probably already maxing out the progress you can make, and time away from the language isn't going to take anything away.

You are probably right, but I cannot deny that I find myself thinking more and more in French. I went to the weekly market this morning, and since I do not speak either Greek or Turkish, my "default foreign language" became French. I consciously remembered three instances where I asked, "Ca coute combien?" and "Ca fait que?" I also read the weight measurements in French numbers. Intensive studying and drowning your brain with a new language (let me qualify that by saying: studying a language that you're willingly learning) actually works.

simple lack of practice at decoding speech

That is DEFINITELY my biggest weakness. Having lived in a country for over a decade with basically no French speakers devastated my previously-developed ability to decode French.

I had the impression that DLI was military-focused

Yes, DLI is military focused. Their BASIC course is an introduction to French, then they have other modules that are specific to the military, and as such, are loaded with military jargon that I am not interested in.

I found FSI Spanish great for the same reasons.

I have done FSI Phonology, and am going to do their Metro FAST and Sub-Saharan African courses too. I am not going to do the FSI Basic course because it guarantees one thing: death by high tedium! FIA would be a better investment of my time, as it is a 1000x less soporific than FSI.
Last edited by Skynet on Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Skynet
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Re: My 9 week ultra-intensive French resurrection summer project.

Postby Skynet » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:00 am

Lawyer&Mom wrote:Le Journal is just a bit slower and a *lot* clearer. So don’t feel bad that it feels really fast. This is *not* “slow” French.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to spend some time with (near) native content in the beginning, especially as an English speaker learning French. There is so much overlap between the languages, it’s largely a matter of training your ear. The sooner you start with listening the better. You will surprise yourself with your progress.


Thanks (again) L&M,

I do see a daily improvement in my ability to hear, understand and decode RFI podcasts. However, I have since noticed that the transcripts do not have everything that is said. Sometimes, entire sentences are omitted from the transcripts. Have you also noticed this?
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