zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

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iguanamon
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby iguanamon » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:07 pm

Yay/sorry, zenmonkey. Yes, Djudeo-espanyol is fun. There is no font I can find for typing Rashi either, except at ladinotype.
La Autoridad Nasionala del Ladino has lessons on youtube with a Hebrew base. Their channel also has interviews, theater plays, old radio episodes and ladino sing-along videos.

If you need any help, let me know :)
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zenmonkey
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Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - actively studying German (B2/C1), Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
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Hebrew and German Log Entry

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:43 pm

Short log, I have a child sleeping on the floor next to me due to a large thunderstorm. Day was very busy but had quick moments with Hebrew and German (and French and Spanish but those don't count...)

Lunch was a little French word play with my daughter telling me she had a blister. Une cloque, which I fake understood for une clope - a word that is feminine when it means cigarette (as slang) but was masculine when it meant cigarette butt (megot). C'est glauque. (It's gross/sinister but glauque come from glokus "light green" eyes of a goddess)

sooo - cloque -> clop -> glauque was our little etymology game with our lunch.

Finally started ASSIMIL again.

HE: (todo list) להכין רשימה - (completed) הושלם: hebrewpod101 (AB4), anki, ASSIMIL (1-3) - (open) פתוח: Living Language

DE: tunliste - fertiggestellt: duolingo, anki geöffnet: lesen, schrieben
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zenmonkey
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Ladino Log Entry

Postby zenmonkey » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:00 pm

Hmm, well, Ladino is NOT that useful for learning Hebrew as fas as I can tell - both Reshi and Solitreo scripts are significantly different from modern Hebrew scripts that they are a puzzle onto themselves. The real issue is a lack of sources in Reshi or Solitreo - since all the language primers I found so far are latinized, I've had to make my own pronoun table:

Screen Shot 2015-08-04 at 14.50.50.png
Screen Shot 2015-08-04 at 14.50.50.png (127.47 KiB) Viewed 1144 times


Which brings me to the real problem - no real fonts exist for the production of these (that table is images from the LadinoType™ site). The Reshi font that I found is an incomplete work based on latinized letter assignment and not Hebrew keyboard assignments and it is not set for RTL, it needs work. Might grab that a project, but not really what I want to focus on now.

Still, interesting that I can read that (latinized version) easily.
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zenmonkey
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Ladino Log Entry

Postby zenmonkey » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:20 am

Just bought The Memoir of Sa'adi Besalel a-Levi hoping to see a few pages of original soletreo - it remains interesting but it is the translated and romanized transliteration (Sa'adi lived 1820-1902 - It is the first known memoir in Ladino). I was hoping to see some facsimile script.


It is quite understandable:

I es ke un padre de famiya tenia su echo en Yumuldjina, i la famiya estava aki, en Salonik. En kada un mes a dos, les mandava moneda por el menester dela famiya. Una ves topo a una persona ke iva partir por Salonik, i le dyo una partida de moneda, ake se las konsinyara a su famiya. El ombre bushko de komersela esta moneda, non les dyo ni la karta, ni la moneda ala famiya. La mujer, vyendo tadrar tyempo kyenon le mandava paras, le168 eskrivyo porké non le manda moneda, syendo ay muncho tyempo ke non le manda. Este padre de famiya eskrivyo keya le tuvo mandado por mano de fulano. La mujer tórna le eskrivyo ke non tuvo risivido nada. El ombre se metyo en kamino i se vino a Salonik, i demando por el fulano, i le disheron ke esta en buen estado, i esta azyendo buen echo. El lo topo al dito ombre, demandandole porke non le konsinyo la moneda a su famiya. El respondyo ke lo soydearon por el kamino los ladrones. El si. se asavento i supo ke la mujer yevava un buen yardan en el kueyo ke valia chirka (1000) mil groshes.


The translation:

Once, the head of a family went to Gumuldjina on business, while his family stayed in Salonica. Every other month, he sent money for the needs of the family. Once, he found someone who was leaving for Salonica, so he gave him some money to deliver to his family. But this person tried to keep the money by withholding both the letter and the money from the family. Soon, his wife was worried that for quite a while she had received no funds from her husband, so she wrote him asking why for some time he hadn’t sent her any money. The head of this family wrote back that he had sent money with somebody. Again, his wife wrote that she had received nothing. Her husband rushed back to Salonica to inquire about the man and was told that he was fine and running his business nicely. He then found that individual and asked him why he hadn’t given the money to his family. His answer was that on the way, he had been robbed by thieves. But when he asked around, he discovered that his wife wore a necklace valued at about one thousand grushes.
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zenmonkey
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stolen computers, new setup and back in the saddle

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:38 pm

Been away for a few days and it's been rough to keep up. No duelling for 3 days and lost my streak. But I'm back in Germany and worked on hebrew today.

I had my computers (2 laptops) stolen while where doing the move for my ex. Catastrophic days. But I'm now trying to run everything off a single Mac laptop and a NAS. I have to say that running a virtual machine off a mac has come a long way! Very please to be able to have the sub2srs, the dreaded Rosetta stone programs, several of the language CDs I have virtualised.

Hopefully, this will be a successful and data secure work environment - currently I will need to redevelop all of my iPhone applications as all I have is some old backups - I was using part of the material stolen (an external drive and the cross laptops) as my backups. I need to use github a bit more.

My font work for ladino is completely lost, as are my source files for a few sub2srs projects. I don't have the time to work on that for this summer.
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby sctroyenne » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:16 am

Oh no! That sounds awful! :cry: If only people had the decency to leave a backup disc when stealing equipment.
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zenmonkey
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:30 pm

sctroyenne wrote:Oh no! That sounds awful! :cry: If only people had the decency to leave a backup disc when stealing equipment.

I know, right?!

I'm setting myself up so that this never happens again - my data is now on an Apple Time Machine + a backup script of my own + a local backup server + a remote server. Likely overkill. :shock:
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zenmonkey
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Hebrew and German Log Entry

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:38 pm

Back to log - worked on Assimil hebrew yesterday and today a combo of HebrewPod101 & Rosetta (I have some old CDs)

להכין רשימה

HE (todo list):(completed) הושלם: hebrewpod101 (AB4&5), ASSIMIL (1-5) -(open) פתוח: anki, Living Language

DE: tunliste - fertiggestellt: duolingo geöffnet: anki, lesen, schrieben[/quote]
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zenmonkey
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Ladino exercise

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:28 pm

From - The Ladino Memoir of Sa'adi Besalel a-Levi.

A bit of an exercise in reading the Romanized ladino

Yo, el soto eskrito, so vinido de un syerto Sinyor Besalel a-Levi Ashkenazi en el anyo de 5580 [1820] b'a"'a, [bendicho para syempre]. Era un mansevo vistido al uzo Eshkenazi. El era savyo ke en vinyendo en Salonik lo risivyeron komo un shaliah, ma el non era menesterozo, ni vino por shelihuth. Estonses uzavan a risivir a los forestos ahnasath orhim. I le dyeron por ba'al a-bayith en kaza del si. Rav Modiano, n"'E, [su repozo en Gan 'Eden]. En los dias ke estuvo en dita kaza, konversando kon el si. rav, le demando a ke okazyon vino a Salonik. El le respondyo ke non vino por shelihuth natural, syendo ke iva bushkando lugar a estabilirse, syendo konosia a el ofisyo de estamparia, i era artizano. El si. rav, vyendo el ermozo mansevo, vino en su ayuda para avrir una estamparia i estampo munchos livros delos savyos de aki; entre los kualos se topa en mi poder el livro estampado de su propya mano en anyo 5512 [1752] ke se yama Meoré Or.


I, who am mentioned below, am the descendant born in the year 1820 of a certain sinyor Besalel a-Levi Ashkenazi. He was a young man dressed according to the Ashkenazi style. As an educated man, he was received as a shaliah or traveling fund-raiser, even though he was not needy, neither was he on a fund-raising mission. In those days out-of-town guests were granted hospitality. His host was sinyor Rav Modiano,1 may he rest in paradise. During his stay at the rav’s house, he had talks with him and was asked about the reason of his coming to Salonica. He replied, saying that he hadn’t come for any fund-raising, but that as an artisan versed in printing, he was looking for a place to establish himself. The sinyor rav helped this handsome young man open a printing press where he printed a number of books written by local scholars, among which I still have in my possession one entitled Meoré Or, printed by him personally in 1752.


The translation is not exact. Sentences are arranged for meaning and this reads like a translation and not a transliteration into English.

El soto eskrito - would be "the sole writer"

Vocabulary that I did not getting (mostly hebrew root words):
shaliah - A shaliaḥ (שָלִיחַ‎) is a Jewish legal emissary or agent
menesterozo - needy
shelihuth - (שליחות) shelihuth, fund-raising mission . Means 'mission' in hebrew today.
ahnasath orhim - from hakhnasa (הכנסה) hospitality? Bringing in/ income?
ba'al a-bayith (בעל) - ba'al: owner master - here - head of family

And in solitreo - (generated from solitreo.com site) this would have looked like:

Screen Shot 2015-08-17 at 23.35.40.png
Screen Shot 2015-08-17 at 23.35.40.png (287.81 KiB) Viewed 1066 times
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iguanamon
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Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby iguanamon » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:03 pm

There's a companion website to the book with all the original photos of the Ladino text handwritten by the man himself in solitreo here. The companion website homepage is A Jewish Voice From Ottoman Salonika .

Yes, the Hebrew, Arabic, Greek and Turkish words can really throw you for a loop. That's one reason why I am reluctant to say that I speak the language. I am indeed grateful for the included glossary. When I read the book, I got a real sense of a voice speaking to me from a time when Sephardic culture was vibrant and thriving in Salonika. With post knowledge, it is bittersweet because today, sadly, little of that world remains.

I should definitely re-read this book. It's good to see someone else interested in this fascinating language and the culture it represents.

Mazal bueno, zenmonkey :)
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