zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

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zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2015
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - actively studying German (B2/C1), Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
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German and Strategies

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:18 am

Had our weekly discussion with Brun Ugle (German / Spanish) and something we talked about - well, kind of a lightbulb moment for me that she brought up, is aligning the study material to mood and energy. She does very regular work with her languages where I tend to struggle some days, relatively speaking. I tend to be focused on completing an activity and Brun mentioned that she selects what she is going to do by aligning how she feels.

This now seems a bit obvious but I have a tendency to force myself through the motions of getting my material done (Don't want to lose that streak, yo!) and gamification raises issues where I'll go through the motions of doing the lesson but only to complete it and not for the value of learning or enjoyment. I can square off two hours of robotic Memerise (I am going to complete that dang, Setswana course!), but I'm being mechanical about it. Her 45 minutes of quality activity are probably a more effective use of her time. And it doesn't add grains to the dread bag.

The dread bag is my imaginary sack where I place all the things I dread doing, the small frustrations and frictions that I experience doing something. These might be huge (I really, really wish I wasn't doing this, ugh! It's like chopping my fingers off and making lunch with them!) or tiny (meh, maybe a coffee and I can complete this.) But these grains add up, and once the bag is full, I'll procrastinate or drop an activity until the bag is empty. And the bag has memory! If I am frustrated with something for long enough, that bag is more difficult to empty each time.

So, German. And what does the above have to do with my learning strategy? Well, if I am going to adjust my study material to the day to day attitude and energy I needed to think about what material I did have and how I feel about it. I don't want to spend an hour searching for a good youtube video if I don't feel like studying grammar. And do I feel grammar requires a lot of energy?

So, what I intend to do is write out my "menu". What are the German language activities I want to practice (podcasts, Drops, assimil, grammar... etc) and note for each how much energy, mood they need, what modality they improve (reading, writing, speaking, listening) and use this as a quick guide on a day to day. Should also help me to organise my material. If I can't find it, I can't do it.

There are a few ideas there that might be worth a thread of their own... (or a podcast topic @rdearman?)

In any case, I was also complaining on the quality of TV in Germany. So I tasked myself to find a list of shows with potential. Here it is:

  • Unsere Mütter, Unsere Väter
  • Deutschland 83
  • Der Gleiche Himmel
  • Babylon Berlin
  • Dark (not necessarily easy to follow...)
  • 4 Blocks
  • Heute Show (ZDF Mediathek)
  • Neo Magazin Royale
  • Mord mit Aussicht and Tatortreiniger
  • Türkisch für Anfänger
  • Ku'damm 56
  • Tatort
  • You are wanted
  • Polizeiruf 110
  • Die Anstalt
  • Weißensee

Now I'm off to see which of these I enjoy!
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Lawyer&Mom
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:24 pm

Mord mit Aussicht is really charming and fun. Not the kind of thing I would typically watch in English, but still totally recommended.
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby SGP » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:03 pm

Lawyer&Mom wrote:Mord mit Aussicht is really charming and fun. Not the kind of thing I would typically watch in English, but still totally recommended.

Any "non-spoiling" very brief description?
(And yes, I could just use a search engine. But simply [a bit] curious what would be the first words that you would mention).
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Previously known as SGP. But my mental username now is langmon.

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SGP
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Re: German and Strategies

Postby SGP » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:13 pm

"Repaying" your virtual visitation :).

zenmonkey wrote:This now seems a bit obvious but I have a tendency to force myself through the motions of getting my material done (Don't want to lose that streak, yo!)

Have been doing it myself sometimes, with really mixed results.
(Forcing myself to finish. Not adding "yo" to a sentence. SCNR :D. Reminded me of a previously watched cartoon [where/in which (?)] a musician added "yo" to the end of every sentence.)

and gamification raises issues where I'll go through the motions of doing the lesson but only to complete it and not for the value of learning or enjoyment.

What is your way of gamification?

Mine is doing the same language learning activities I could be doing, too, if I never would have heard of the word "gamification" before. If there is any question about this ultra-short description, I could explain some more.

I can square off two hours of robotic Memerise (I am going to complete that dang, Setswana course!), but I'm being mechanical about it.

Robotic vs. mechanical, same meaning here? Or different?


The dread bag is my imaginary sack where I place all the things I dread doing, the small frustrations and frictions that I experience doing something. [...] And the bag has memory! If I am frustrated with something for long enough, that bag is more difficult to empty each time.

A bag with a memory. An elephant's memory maybe even?

And do I feel grammar requires a lot of energy?

Often it can be like this. Because it is about an explanation of rules, rather than examples only.
#LearningByImmersionAndExposure #ReferringToGrammarBooksToo #NotRestrictingMyselfToOneMethodInParticular
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Previously known as SGP. But my mental username now is langmon.

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I_likes_languages
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby I_likes_languages » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:37 pm

What you wrote about your discussion with Brun Ugle and aligning your studies to your mood and energy has given me some food for thought :idea: But I wonder about the inevitable (?) risks of this strategy. As you mentioned, the "I don't want to break my streak" aspect can be a huge motivation for some. Once I allow myself to veer off my study plan (especially when I'm low on energy etc) it is usually painful to get back on track. So maybe something like a menu of activities to choose from?

If you ever decide to watch a Tatort, I recommend "Im Schmerz geboren".
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Kat
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby Kat » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:46 pm

Die Heute Show und die Anstalt sind auf jeden Fall eine gute Wahl, wenn du politische Satire magst. Mord mit Aussicht ist auch sehr nett.

Wenn du gutes Fernsehen suchst, schau dich am besten bei den Dritten (den Regionalsendern) und bei Arte um. Du hast den großen Vorteil, dass du in Deutschland wohnst und deshalb freien Zugriff auf die Mediatheken hast.

Über Geschmack lässt sich bekanntlich streiten, aber vielleicht magst du hiervon etwas:

  • Quer (BR): Ein bayrisches Regionalmagazin, auch interessant, wenn man nicht in Bayern wohnt. Gute, kritische Berichterstattung, viele der Themen betreffen ganz Deutschland. Ich mag den Stil des Moderators. Es wird vorwiegend Hochdeutsch gesprochen, manchmal mit leicht bayrischem Einschlag, aber gut verständlich. Vereinzelt gibt es auch Interviews in echtem Bayrisch. Dann schalte selbst ich als deutsche Muttersprachlerin Untertitel ein. :D

  • Wunderschön! (WDR): Ein Reisemagazin. Ganz unspektakulär, aber genau darum mag ich es irgendwie. Bei jeder Sendung erkundet die Moderatorin in Begleitung eines Einheimischen ein Reiseziel. Hier z. B. Zypern.

  • Spuren des Bösen (ORF): Eine Krimiserie. Relativ düster, aber sehr gut, wenn man so etwas mag. Vielleicht nicht immer einfach zu verstehen, denn die Serie spielt in Wien und die Schauspieler sprechen teilweise österreichisches Deutsch.

  • außendienst (ZDF): Ganz kurze Beiträge aus dem Auslandsjournal (etwa in der Mitte der Webseite zu finden). Ein Reporter begleitet eine Person, die einen ungewöhnlichen Beruf ausübt oder berichtet über einen bestimmten Brauch, ein Ereignis oder ein Projekt im Ausland. Einige alte Folgen sind auf Youtube zu finden.

  • strassen stars (HR)
    Eine Art Quizsendung, bei der es eigentlich nicht um Wissen, sondern um Menschenkenntnis geht. Drei Leute von der Straße bekommen Fragen gestellt und drei Kandidaten im Fernsehstudio müssen versuchen einzuschätzen, wie sie antworten werden.

  • Die Spur der Ahnen (MDR)
    In jeder Folge wird einem ungeklärten Ereignis aus der Familiengeschichte einer Person auf den Grund gegangen. Wesentlich seriöser als ähnliche Sendungen im Privatfernsehen und oft mit interessanten geschichtlichen Hintergrundinfos.

  • Ostwärts - mit dem Rucksack der Sonne entgegen (MDR): Ein zweites Reisemagazin. Wie der Name schon sagt, geht es hier Richtung Osten - vom Baltikum über den Balkan, durch die GUS... Alte Folgen sind auch bei Youtube zu finden.

  • Planet Wissen (WDR)
    Wissensmagazin mit Beiträgen zu Themen aus Wissenschaft, Geschichte, Kultur und Technik.
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zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2015
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - actively studying German (B2/C1), Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
x 4996
Contact:

Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:07 pm

Lawyer&Mom wrote:Mord mit Aussicht is really charming and fun. Not the kind of thing I would typically watch in English, but still totally recommended.

Thanks! Love getting recommendation and "charming and fun" is right down my alley. I'll check it out.
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Tagged posts: Language Method Resource
Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
I am inconsistency incarnate.
Go study! Publisher of Syriac, Aramaic, Hebrew alphabet apps at http://alphabetsnow.zyntx.com

User avatar
zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2015
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - actively studying German (B2/C1), Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
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Contact:

Re: German and Strategies

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:15 pm

SGP wrote:"Repaying" your virtual visitation :).

and gamification raises issues where I'll go through the motions of doing the lesson but only to complete it and not for the value of learning or enjoyment.

What is your way of gamification?

Mine is doing the same language learning activities I could be doing, too, if I never would have heard of the word "gamification" before. If there is any question about this ultra-short description, I could explain some more.

Gamification is a term to describe turning an activity into a game with score, points or streaks in order to drive a competitive spirit, compliance of use or frequency of use. It is often used in learning apps - memrise, duolingo and many other learning tools use a "game like" interface for this reason. I can be useful to drive use, but it can also make the user focus on the game-like qualities rather than the learning experience.
I use duolingo, drops, memrise and my own development for some things...

I can square off two hours of robotic Memerise (I am going to complete that dang, Setswana course!), but I'm being mechanical about it.

Robotic vs. mechanical, same meaning here? Or different?

yes, robotic being the personification of mechanical.

And do I feel grammar requires a lot of energy?

Often it can be like this. Because it is about an explanation of rules, rather than examples only.
#LearningByImmersionAndExposure #ReferringToGrammarBooksToo #NotRestrictingMyselfToOneMethodInParticular

Yes, I was talking about active grammar study. Which I personally feel is always somewhat necessary (even in my native languages) unless you are ok with fossilising non-standard registers.
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Tagged posts: Language Method Resource
Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
I am inconsistency incarnate.
Go study! Publisher of Syriac, Aramaic, Hebrew alphabet apps at http://alphabetsnow.zyntx.com

User avatar
zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2015
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - actively studying German (B2/C1), Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
x 4996
Contact:

Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:20 pm

Kat wrote:Über Geschmack lässt sich bekanntlich streiten, aber vielleicht magst du hiervon etwas...


Vielen Dank für die Empfehlungen! Ich werde versuchen zu sehen, ob ich diese finden kann.
0 x
Tagged posts: Language Method Resource
Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
I am inconsistency incarnate.
Go study! Publisher of Syriac, Aramaic, Hebrew alphabet apps at http://alphabetsnow.zyntx.com

User avatar
zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2015
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - actively studying German (B2/C1), Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
x 4996
Contact:

Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:22 pm

I_likes_languages wrote:What you wrote about your discussion with Brun Ugle and aligning your studies to your mood and energy has given me some food for thought :idea: But I wonder about the inevitable (?) risks of this strategy. As you mentioned, the "I don't want to break my streak" aspect can be a huge motivation for some. Once I allow myself to veer off my study plan (especially when I'm low on energy etc) it is usually painful to get back on track. So maybe something like a menu of activities to choose from?

If you ever decide to watch a Tatort, I recommend "Im Schmerz geboren".


That's the idea. But also not letting the streak become such a motivation that I drop an activity. All streaks are eventually broken, right?
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Tagged posts: Language Method Resource
Please feel free to correct me in any language, critique my posts, challenge my thoughts.
I am inconsistency incarnate.
Go study! Publisher of Syriac, Aramaic, Hebrew alphabet apps at http://alphabetsnow.zyntx.com


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